Hello,
Just to let you know I have emailed Lorena and requested my angel reading.
Also there was an extra offer to get a communication with the other side through her friend Anna for $1. So I have emailed Anna and asked her to make contact with any of my deceased relatives for me.
As soon as I get my reading and messages from the other side I will share them here with you all.
Hopefully getting an independent opinion will help settle this matter.

Peace.

S.C.

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It is exactly right - if you did gain guidance from the 'fraudulent psychic' Reading, that is to say there was indeed true benefit from the experience, then the guidance was true (even if the psychic was deliberately deceitful). Do you get mine?

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To be precise, guidance comes from true communication with one's issues. This is irregardless of the external circumstances.

What is real communication? Actual communication with some extraphysical being? Even if it was actually less evolved than the average intraphysical human being? And if we were referring to actual communication with (what we would collectively understand as) the 'true' guides & helpers, the ones of higher vibration with the intention and capacity to effectively assist, then remember that their communication is not limited to merely certain predetermined physical circumstances or conditions.

Furthermore, the 'fraudulent psychic' may well herself be quite easily guided, and yourself too in meeting her, to communicate various messages to you. Afterall the guides & helpers and Angels do this all the time, guiding you to take notice of signboards (a commonly used tactic of the guides & helpers), with animals or plants (eg. thinking about a particular animal with associated significance, and unexpectedly this animal crosses your path), with dreams, synchronicities, etc.

In point of fact, even deliberately arranging for a fraudulent psychic whom (the guides & helpers know full well) will spew out nonsensical predictions, could also be used as a symbol by the guides, helpers and Angels, to communicate to you certain ideas, for instance, that you need to start believing in yourself, rather than surrendering your will onto others (which would be an act of irresponsibility), etc.

The point being, let our minds be open to greater possibilities beyond limiting, preconditioned beliefs of what human society have traditionally and dogmatically labelled as true/false, right/wrong, etc. Such (willingness to be open to greater possibilities) is a prerequisite for expansion and evolution.


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If one sees everything Clearly (really, obtain a copy of Byron Katie's "Loving What Is"), then there is no problem with being mislead. Indeed, it (every single experience, regardless of how accurate/inaccurate, positive/negative, etc) can only lead you to understand yourself better.

There's self-responsibility right there. It's not the job of others to lead or mislead you, or to help you or hurt you, or to make you sad or happy, or to love or not love you; that's *your* job, including the TurnAround of (as you choose it) to lead others, to help others, to make others happy, or to love others.

Kyo,

"Who makes the judgement then, whether any given being acts as a 'true' guide or 'false' guide? It is a collective judgement and collaborative understanding of the beings that wish to assist, the guides & helpers."

What seems unanswered here is how an intraphysical person is supposed to know whether a guide is 'true' or an intruder.

Rob

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Like everything else in this Universe, there's no way of absolutely knowing for sure. But there's the point of it, the opportunity for one to make a choice, exercise judgement and opinion, and to decide for oneself to the best of one's ability, what's best to do, or whether such-and-such is a 'true guide' or intruder, or whether the words of such-and-such forum poster or channeled entity has value. Self-responsibility.


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Not exactly. If the fraudulent psychic is fraudulent (eg. by his/her own admittance), then (regardless of whether the person benefited from the Reading) the fraudulent psychic is fraudulent. Simple as that. But it's okay! Love it.

And if the person benefited from some insight gained during the Reading (regardless of the sincerity of the Reader), then the person benefited from the Reading. Simple as that. And it's okay! Love it.

The point is, to have the willingness to see *clearly* what's happening for every experience, and not to fall into fear & ego based re-action traps of "what should be" and "what should not be", including feelings of outrage of being 'deceived' by the fraudulent psychic, for instance.

Instead, recognize that every experience (Love What Is, instead of being conditionally loving and unaccepting of Reality), is an opportunity for you to exercise self-responsibility, and from such, to gain greater clarity, greater evolution, greater assistantiality, and greater love.


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Right. A successful Reading (fraud or no fraud) or experience, comes from meaningful communication between you and your issues. To be precise, between you and yourself (through your issues).

And yes, guides, helpers and angels may act as intermediaries in facilitating this process (of self-clarification and self-learning), and at times do this also through a further intermediary role, that could be played by intraphysical psychics and channelers.

So where does this leave us, in terms of 'fraudulent psychics' or 'genuine psychics'? You see, the problem or difficulty, with vehemently insisting on proving beyond doubt the sincerity or validity of a psychic Reader, and for some, even getting upset and outraged by the possibility of fraud, means that it's all the more likely to miss the forest for the trees.

To forget that the ultimate purpose of any psychic Reading is not whether the psychic is a fraud or not, and not even whether you had truly communicated with your guides, helpers, angels or not, but whether you had gained any insight or benefited from the Reading or not.

To forget that the ultimate purpose of any experience (whether pleasant or not; whether apparently 'good' or 'bad') is greater learning, evolution, relationship or love. And the willingness to welcome this, regardless of whether the experience fits conditionally into any preconceived beliefs or criteria.

So am I then saying that "it totally doesn't matter whether a psychic is genuine or fradulent!", as some might have misinterpreted? Of course not.

For sure, having a genuine psychic Read for you, is probably going to be more productive, didactically / pedagogically speaking. But don't get too obsessed over accuracy/validity or get all upset over the idea of 'fraud', and miss the forest for the trees.

So then, instead of some subjective, arbitrary definition of 'fraud' or 'genuine', let's instead go with 'level of helpfulness based on experience or observation'.

And then, how do Lorena's Angel Reading rate for this? From my personal experience and viewpoint, very well. Particularly in the accuracy department. But if you felt otherwise, that's fine too.

Whether the accuracy or lack of it, has to do with Lorena, or the Angels participating in the process, or with your own capacity/willingness to relate to the Reading contents, it does not quite matter as much now, does it?

Because the point of it was whether you gained from it, and not whether this or that psychic Reader is genuine or fraudulent. Too many people confuse between the two.


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If she is (and of course, there's no way to know for sure, and is it really the point?), then that's totally fine, too. Love it!

I don't know about you, but my goal isn't whether she copies and pastes or not, but whether from her copying and pasting, there was benefit and experience of the Angels' energies or not (whose capacity to deliver messages and love, are not limited by physical circumstances or conditions).


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"Depth and Insight"? Were you expecting a Hilarion Reading? Do note that I say this without sacarsm or intention to offend.

I did state in an earlier post, that from my experience they're both wonderful and recommended. And I stand by my statement (not out of dogmatic principle of ego or pride; but simply because currently such a statement is still in line with my observations; but remember that *you* don't have to agree if it's not in line with your observations, of course!).

But notice that I also did point out, that Lorena's Angel Reading is wonderful in it's accuracy and capacity to deliver the Angel's presence and love, whilst the Hilarion Reading is outstanding (virtually unmatchable, quite frankly) in it's capacity for depth and insight.

You can't fairly compare the worthiness of two psychic Readings against each other, but you *can* quite fairly compare the appropriateness of the various Readings available, against what you require.

S.C.,

What you have found online, is indicative quite simply that Lorena uses the Doreen Virtue pack of cards. Out of curiosity, have you actually received your Reading from Lorena, to ascertain the accuracy of the Reading done by her?


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Yes, that's quite true. But several things to add (not said in defence of anything or anyone in particular; but are rather some observations, or suggestions) :

1) Traditionally, as explained by Hilarion, the Angels physically manipulate the Tarot/Angel Cards in an actual physical Reading, to enable to communication. Presumably, the Angels could possibly also do this online, though whether they actually choose to do this, or if any protocol needs to be observed for the online version to be successful (eg. sincerity on the part of the applicant), is another question altogether. Perhaps some of you who tried out the online version, could share your opinion on this matter.

2) Lorena did state from the start, that these are Angel Card Readings, and did not claim any particular format (eg. adding the Reader's own personal input via intuitive guidance, etc) to them. So honesty and integrity remains.

3) Lorena also stated simply, that the purpose of her setup, as far as she's concerned, was in a bid to raise funds for her new home. And would offer an Angel Reading as a token of appreciation for the donations. This is understood by all who apply for her Reading.

4) Personal experience still remains validated, that the Angels do work accurately via Lorena's Reading. And on this criteria, I still recommend Lorena's Reading. From intelligent discrimination and intuitive observation, the Angels do come through! It's wonderful! This certainly hasn't changed.


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Ah, as I said earlier, do Lorena's Reading, and you'll know. How will you know? Like everything else in the Universe, you can't ever absolutely know for sure, of course. But the recognition that comes from a direct communication from the Angels, is quite unmistakable.


One last point. Doreen Virtue, the designer of this pack of Angel Cards, named the Angels on the cards after actual Angels known to her (she is indeed telepathically and clairvoyantly connected with the Angelic kingdom). The names on these cards are there more representative than anything.

2 points to add here :

1) Remember that the Angels and ArchAngels do not quite work in the same way as the extraphysical *human* guides & helpers, or even various extraterrestrial beings acting as guides & helpers. It is true, that many of the Angels, especially of course the ArchAngels, actually overlight and connect with *many* humans at once. Their consciential capacity, like Hilarion's, will not be utilized anywhere near their limit, even if they communicated or channeled simultaneously with thousands of humans at once. So it is actually a common occurence, for a particular Angel, to act as 'Guardian Angels' or 'Relationship Angel' or in various Angelic capacity, for several, dozens, or many dozens of humans simultaneously.

2) Of course, you'll realize that by virtue of the mechanism by which the Doreen Virtue Angel Cards (which are based on the original Tarot Card gift to humanity by the Angels themselves) work, there are far far far more Angels (and Angelic names) than can be printed on a deck of Cards. And so, do not necessarily take the names on the cards literally, but perhaps representatively. And (check this out!) if you would ever like to learn of the actual names and/or detailed descriptions of your Angels, as well as your other personal guides & helpers, and possibly even of your Evolutionary Orientor, you can always request for these in your Hilarion Reading.



Kyo

Kyo I agree with everything you have said. AND I must say that if she were out to just make money, she would be charging more than $5 which is a drop in the bucket compared to what a lot of psychics charge.

BTW, I have Doreen Virtue's Archangel cards and also her Fairy cards and draw one for myself at least twice a week. I am always amazed at the cards I draw as it's as if they are speaking directly to me.  Which, I know in my heart, they are.

With Love,
Mairlyn

Dear Kyo,

I do not have a problem with this. I just stated my experience with the reading. I was happy to send Lenora the money. For whatever reason you have spent alot of energy defending.

I have read all of Byron Katie's work. I learned a long long time ago to read all and any Spiritual material with discernment. I take what resonates in 'my heart'.

Peace,
Paradox

Dear Paradox,

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Yes, and I had no intention of implying that you (personally) had any problem with this. It was for the benefit of clarifying to others.


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'Defending' is your perception. 'Clarifying' is my intention, because I would not like to have others (in general) misaccuse anyone else of fraud. But it's ok if you interpret my efforts as defensive, just as it's ok that my intention was to offer another perspective for clarification's sake, as I'm doing now in this post. Not defending (for the sake of defending), but clarifying (for the sake of clarifying).


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Just to clarify, when I said let's "Love It", and my subsequent post to Mairlyn (which was for her, really), I actually didn't mean to imply/accuse that you (or Rob Roy, or anyone else) don't, or that you don't read with discernment or, or that you falsely accuse another of fraud, etc.

But if that was the way it seemed, then my iteration here was probably bad. My bad. My apologies for this. Hope this helps to clarify.


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Again, if my statements were mis-interpreted to be accusatory of anyone in the manner implied, my bad, and my apologies. Hope this helps to clarify.


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Yes, your point is understood, and is certainly correct. That if from your perspective you felt you had no basis to actually judge a particular Reading was legitimate, then it may be appropriate to say so. Just as from my experience from it, I had felt the guidance was legitimate, and was appropriate for me to share my opinion on this. Not appropriate for personal attacks of any sort here, so if that was how it seemed on my part, my apologies.


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On this part, I have to honestly say that I would not phrase it as harshly as you have. For the record and for what it's worth (and in my opinion, not much), it was indeed so that Lorena did not make mention of Doreen Virtue when she typed out the Reading. But I think that's ok that she didn't (even if I were Doreen Virtue herself, which I'm not, but *if* I were.).

It's appreciated that you, Rob Roy, if you had done the Reading, you would have made it a point to acknowledge Doreen Virtue in your Reading to your client. And I probably would, too (If I did conduct Card readings, which I don't). But to say it's either "an innocent oversight or it may also be a singular failure of integrity on someone's part", to use the term "failure of integrity", well I would not personally use such a term on anyone, including Lorena or anyone else who decides not to credit or acknowledge Doreen Virtue, just for this act (albeit an act of plagarism, or possibly even a commercial violation of intellectual property).

So in Clarifying it, Rob's saying *he* wouldn't want to plagarize without credit, and that's loving and respected.

And all I'm saying, is that while I probably wouldn't plagarize either, but neither would I feel it necessarily a "failure of integrity" on anyone's part, if they were to do so.


So once again in conclusion, Paradox and Rob Roy, and to anyone else whom this may concern, if my posts were interpreted to be accusatory or insensitive, I do apologize for my bad, and wish to clarify that such, is not my intention.


Have a nice day, all.
Kyo