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Why don't you get your million dollars? (Read 6717 times)
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Why don't you get your million dollars?
Apr 18th, 2006 at 6:04am
 
The people's biggest problem in believing in the afterlife or supernatural is James Randi's offer to pay million dollars to anyone who can prove there is things called supernatural. As no one has got it, many might say there isn't anything called supernatural.

So why people who have these abilities don't get the money? It would be quite easy to prove it if there was. I have been reading about partnered exploration for example, if that's true, then it wouldn't be so hard to go to Randi and accept the money. Or is it?
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RyanParis
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #1 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 6:57am
 
First off, I don't believe anything is "paranormal" or "supernatural" -- there are just things and dimensions in reality that we don't understand yet.

James Randi is saying something very BROAD when he uses the word paranormal. WHAT's paranormal? WHAT's supernatural? Is James Randi looking for stuff in Nature that's not produced by Nature?

Second, James Randi is fully aware that something psychic (beyond earth senses), for instance, spirits and ghosts, can't be PHYSICALLY proven. James Randi looking for evidence of non-physical things (spirits, astral projection, etc) is like looking for the wind with his physical eyes. James Randi is fully aware most of the stuff on his paranormal list is non-physical, and therefore can't be proven. Why bothering proving it then?

I don't think highly of James Randi. I doubt he even has a "million dollar prize," but is just an old man with too much time on his hands, devoting the rest of his years to bashing what he's never experienced or doesn't understand.

Astral/etheric projection is a real phenomena, I've done it myself by accident. I can't prove it's real because it was accidential during sleep and I somehow doubt people can see etheric bodies. If I could prove astral projection, I'd quickly grab the million dollar prize, assuming of course Mr. Randi has the prize at all.

It's true.
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augoeideian
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #2 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 7:45am
 
lol at James Randi (who ever he is)

A typical materialist notion - just throw money at it!
Maybe spiritual people aren't that interested in money and he might as well be saying you can have a banana if you prove it .. yummy a banana.

Smiley
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #3 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 7:48am
 
It could not be about the money, but the proof of supernatural. You can always go without the prize if you want.
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #4 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:09am
 
He's pretty well set it up so no proof is going to be good enough that isn't proof of the type that would tell you "yes, there is a block of iron sitting here."

My usual example...say you've got an AM radio, back in the day when that was cutting edge.  You're somewhere (valley in the mountains, say) where the reception sucks, fades in and out, crackles so you can hardly hear, let alone understand, the broadcast.  Does that mean there is no AM broadcast?  Of course not.  If you only have a certain reciever (your brain, or a vintage AM radio), you're in a place where reception sucks (mountain valley, or earth, respectively), and there is interference (static of supernatural or natural sort), that only means you haven't learned how to perceive the signal yet.  The information is sent out (at the descretion of the station/supernatural beings), and you get bits and snips of it to interpret as you can.  With no more proof than would have been available at the very beginning of radio broadcasting, and without the option to change positions (get out of the mountian valley, or leave earth, respectively), Randi's requirements for proof wouldn't have accepted AM racio either.

Or a more succinct example...you have *no* radio or electronic equipment at all...doesn't change the fact that some big old tower out there is shooting out radio waves ninety to the minute.
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #5 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:33am
 
Smiley forget the prize, forget the proof - he just has to find out for himself!

Cricket that is a great comment!  'It' is like a TV set that needs to be tuned into the right or another reception, airwave.

James Randi could start with a banana cos its the only fruit that doesn't reproduce with a seed ...
ooh a mystery.  Smiley
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #6 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 11:10am
 
If I'm not misunderstood or something, isn't "Partnered exploration" the most provable thing in this issue? Easily proven, I mean. And easy.

So why don't some of you that can do it, go to Randi and show? It would then be easier to majority to know this thing is real?
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #7 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 12:57pm
 
Quote:
If I'm not misunderstood or something, isn't "Partnered exploration" the most provable thing in this issue? Easily proven, I mean. And easy.

So why don't some of you that can do it, go to Randi and show? It would then be easier to majority to know this thing is real?


It is easy to prove in a limited sense but thats where you hit a problem.

What Randi's test wants is for you to say what you do and prove it so in the sense of exploration of the afterlife, and specifically partnered exploration, he could argue on partner recieved information from earthbound sources through psychic means and then passed it onto the other partner through psychic means. The other problem is, as stated, you dont have to prove it to rational reasonable people, you have to prove it to Mr Randi, and I have seen the people who hang out on his websites forum. These are hardcore diehard sceptics, you could stand in front of these guys with a 50ft high dragon, chop its leg off to show its flesh and blood, make it breath fire and fly away and they would still accuse you of faking it because obviously dragons aren't real.

I remember seeing on a forum somewhere, maybe this one, that a man had applied to take Randi's test. His thing was that he could survive on only water with no ill effects to his physical and mental health, he put it in writing he wanted to take the challenge as your asked to, all he got back was a rather rude and insulting letter from the Randi foundation.

There is a similar challenge by a UK sceptics website, though only for £10K I think, the first part of the challenge is that they have 10 sets of questions from people and the medium has to answer them. These questions are things like "Fred Smiths dad used to carry a pocket watch in his left jacket pocket, what was inscribed on it" now granted mediums  can get these answers yes but so many specific questions, and then to face the final test which will be more specific questions, these are hardly ideal circumstances.

In short the reason people dont take the test is because nobody believes its a fair and realistic test, maybe when someone proposes a fair and realistic one someon will come forward.
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #8 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 4:47pm
 
As for Partnered Exploration, it would be very difficult to achieve a Randi-proof-proof. All would be fine if there were people who could telepatic talk like on the telephone (there might have been those cases, but you never know when it happens).
Normally, according to my own experiences, it seems to work different.
For example, one of the two partners should get a message through the other partner. The message would be: Flying with an aeroplane and landing in New York. The other maybe would report: I felt dizzy and sick. Then I saw a spaceship destroying a building.
Now, would that be accepted? The receiver got flight-sick, instead of the aeroplane he saw a spaceship, and instead of New York he saw the destruction of buildings, referring to 9/11. This wouldn't be accepted, and this is the usual output of haveing PEs. You even cannot give a probability degree of those comparisons. It would be easier to hit numbers or exact phrases or things, but as I said, it's mostly getting other ways, symbolic, interpreted and/or distorted, so it is just a personal feeling if it works or not. BUT if one does this often, and one often gets these half-hits, it's convincing- but that's not what Randi would accept.
And, remember, Randi makes the rules. If he is a true non-believer, he has not the feeling of the disturbing factor his setups can have on the abilities of the probands. If they moan over the circumstances, this would only be a proof for him that they can't do it.

Spooky
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #9 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 5:36pm
 
Randi

Aah what complete biggot

If God plainly zapped him with a bolt of lightening, then set his hair on fire , he would still not believe it.

His mindset is set in solid concrete.

There was a german dude whos name i  cant remember who offered to take up randis challenge, and was qutie willing to take his "tests" too.  Randi crapped himself and never replied.

If u actaully look at the stipulations carefully then you can plainly see that his test is bullS**t
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #10 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:05pm
 
Quote:
Randi

Aah what complete biggot

If God plainly zapped him with a bolt of lightening, then set his hair on fire , he would still not believe it.

His mindset is set in solid concrete.

There was a german dude whos name i  cant remember who offered to take up randis challenge, and was qutie willing to take his "tests" too.  Randi crapped himself and never replied.

If u actaully look at the stipulations carefully then you can plainly see that his test is bullS**t


I'm sure thats the guy I mentioned, he was from europe, Randi did reply but a very rude and condesending letter. Your right about his mindset though, and he infects others with it, just check the forums on his website, I wouldn't even call them a sceptic anymore, a real sceptic will always give a balanced opinion not one that leans totally to one side.
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #11 - Apr 18th, 2006 at 9:48pm
 
Quote:
I'm sure thats the guy I mentioned, he was from europe, Randi did reply but a very rude and condesending letter. Your right about his mindset though, and he infects others with it, just check the forums on his website, I wouldn't even call them a sceptic anymore, a real sceptic will always give a balanced opinion not one that leans totally to one side.


They are just science facists really, and hardcore CLOSE-MINDED skeptics, infact they are not even wortrthy of the name skeptics, if they were all alive in a past life some 300 years ago they would of been burning innocent people at the stake for herecy & witchcraft
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #12 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 7:01am
 
Quite right  Smiley
Minds cast in concrete sums it up nicely.

Watch, he might have an experience as did Saul on the path to Damascus being struck by a bolt of lightning that transformed him into Paul.

Then he might give his million bucks to a far worthy cause - now wouldn't that be a thing!

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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #13 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 10:38am
 
One big problem with "proof" of the Randi variety, is it's not what we usually get when communicating with the afterlife...for instance, if someone I didn't before know communicated to me that they heard from John and he said "Why didn't you close up that knothole?", I'd know it was a reference to a joke we had (when we were both so tired that we felt like we'd been "drug through a knothole backwards", he'd say "I *told* you to close up that knothole!").  That would be absolute proof to me...but not to Randi, and I suppose from a scientific point of view, it shouldn't be, after all, I could be making it all up.  But it would be proof to me - even if it was someone who knew me, I'd be dubious about it being "psychic communication" as Randi alway harps on...too obscure and not something fraught with great emotion that I might be "broadcasting" (well, probably now it is...I guess I ruined that as a test! ;>)
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Re: Why don't you get your million dollars?
Reply #14 - Apr 19th, 2006 at 11:33am
 
I have a fantasy of fullfilling Randi's "challenge" by getting  dirt on Cheney and Bush psychically and thereby killing two birds with one stone.

Just a fantasy, mind you. Probably doesn't follow Randi's criteria.


It is interesting that no one has to date agreed to the test protocol.

http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

His rules are probably more stringent that what is applied to even medical research. If analogs of his rules were used, we'd probably have no new drugs. he maybe that's not such a bad thing. But we do have different levels of proof in this culture. I bet Randi goes to the doctor, too.


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