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Gospel of Judas (Read 7911 times)
betson
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Gospel of Judas
Apr 9th, 2006 at 10:43am
 
Greetings.
The newly discovered 'gospel of Judas' Iscariot has amazing information, including the quote from Jesus to Judas: "You are a good friend who will help me shed this earthly husk." (...something like that.)  If Judas' role was to help a friend, God's role in directing their lives and deaths seems even stronger, since even the 'traitor' Judas was fulfilling God's role for him. Both men had free will but their souls stayed true to the roles God had set for them.
I thought--hoped--it got easier.  Guess that shows I'm farther back on the trail than I'd hoped.
In USA TV shows the  'Gospel of Judas'  tonight.
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augoeideian
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #1 - Apr 9th, 2006 at 11:55am
 
Hi betson  Smiley

There was a report in our papers yesterday about the release of this today in the usa.

Wonderful!  hope you get a chance to see it.
The piece that the author wrote in the paper said the original Coptic texts written by Judas had been found 8 years ago (in a bad state) near the Nile. The text got sent around (sold and re-sold) then a Swiss doctor took over the project to repair and translate the original Coptic texts.

an extract from the original text is; at the Last Supper Jesus said to Judas .. do what you have to do to fullfill the scriptures, my friend.  Not ... there is a betrayer amongst us ...

Congratulations to the Light  Smiley
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Lucy
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #2 - Apr 9th, 2006 at 12:36pm
 
There was another reply here when I fisrt read this that has been removed. That reply reflected an understanding not based on reading the information about the find. Here is a link to an article on the find that should answer questions about the find.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/04/07/a_new_judas_emer...

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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #3 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 1:01am
 
Many years ago, when a lot younger and more foollish, I joined the military (you want more proof of young and foolish?), and during the paperwork phase (that's the part that preceeds the standing in line and waiting phase) some friends and I gave our "religious preference" (for our dogtags) as "St Judas Church of Reformed Agnosticism". Life is definitely strange!

d
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Touching Souls
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #4 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 1:26am
 
You know, for some reason, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Judas and never knew why. Shocked

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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augoeideian
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #5 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 4:25am
 
Smiley Life is like a woven blanket with different colour threads that weave in and out together forming one whole.

That is a good name Dave!

Marilyn another confirmation that happens naturally in us .. hey.  Its wonderful and beautiful.

Smiley
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Berserk
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #6 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 3:06pm
 
The New Age ghetto here is so myopic that it sees no need to listen to acknowledged experts in the fields about which it opines.  The Gospel of Judas is a late Gnostic Gospel, apparently composed by the "Cainites" (so Irenaeus AD 1.31.1).   It is too late to contain reliable oral tradition.  I would love to believe what it says about Judas because I've always viewed him as more of a tragic figure than an evil figure.  But ask yourself why a remorseful Judas would commit suicide after Jesus' crucifixion if he had not betrayed Christ (Matthew 27:1-8 independently confirmed by the Book of Axts)..

Don
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« Last Edit: Apr 11th, 2006 at 10:28pm by Berserk »  
 
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betson
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #7 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 5:08pm
 
Greetings,
I have asked myself why Christ's 'accomplice' would commit suicide and all I could come up with is that the flow of his (Judas') faith experienced a severe ebb, without Christ's presence there to console him. Since John is generally considered the favorite of Christ, putting Judas into the spotlight must have been rather sudden, possibly setting up a rather unstable situation.

I have also questionned how long was the time between the crucifixion and Judas' suicide? Since Judas role was secret before the betrayal, who all did he have time to tell his story to before he ended his own life?  Can you help with this, Don?

I am not necessarily out to make Judas a hero--perhaps he was chosen for his deed because of what we would call character flaws, rather than strengths. But I do think new and valid discoveries are possible, exciting, and add to the depth of a great and wondrous story.
bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
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Rob_Roy
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #8 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 5:29pm
 
Don,

"But ask yourself why a remorseful Judas would commit suicide after Jesus' crucifixion if he had not betrayed Christ (Matthew 27:1-8 independently confirmed by the Book of Axts)..'

People commit suicide because they're clinically depressed, for one reason. How does depression prove guilt?

How many innocent people have offed themselves because they were accused of something they knew they would never be able to live down?

And no, Don, since you seem to favor fallacious reasonsing at the moment, no one has to prove Judas didn't betray Jesus. That would be quite an unreasonable expectation, not to mention asking us to prove a negative.

If all of us say you're full of doo doo, and you get depressed about it and kill yourself, does that prove us right?

"(Matthew 27:1-8 independently confirmed by the Book of Axts)"

Were you implying here that because they are separate books (although chosen by the same church) the authors are objective/unbiased? That they didn't share oral traditions and such? Please!

Ask youself how suicide proves guilt.

Rob
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juditha
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #9 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 6:15pm
 
Hi Ive always thought that Judas hung himself after he betrayed Jesus because he could not live with what he had done. Ithink Judas thought when he told the sanhedrin were Jesus was ,he really thought in his head that he was helping Jesus ,because Judas trusted the sanhedrin and did not realise that the sanhedrin was just using him to find were Jesus was . Just my thoughts.God bless juditha
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #10 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 6:16pm
 
I suspect that if my job were to turn Jesus over to the CIA for interrogation in Gitmo' I'd be clinically depressed, even if I thought I understood what was happening.

Jesus put it a bit differently, that "these things must happen" but that it would be better for them who cause them that they had never been born. Judas had some karmic obligations here too - as did Paul etc.

d
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scary_spice
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #11 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 7:48pm
 
Hi All. Why didn't jesus just turn himself in? After all, it was he who preached not harming your fellow human beings in any form or another. If he knew judas was to turn him in, then he would have known judas was going to suffer agony and commit suicide. Causing someone to suicide(knowing beforehand) and not trying to stop it, is a definate no, no, especially for the 'son of god?' who taught love, peace, non-violence, etc, etc....Regards. Spice.
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Touching Souls
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #12 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 10:17pm
 
Probably because Jesus didn't want to interfere with Judas's karma which was being played out/balanced in his act of betrayal, if it was betrayal. If he was an accomplice, then he still felt so badly that he took his life.

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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Berserk
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #13 - Apr 11th, 2006 at 11:06pm
 
Rob et al,

You just don't get it.  First, both Matthew and the Book of Acts are first century Gospels still within the range of eyewitness testimony and authentic oral traditon.  The author of the Book of Acts is Paul's travel companion Luke.   Luke's sources include "the disciples and other eyewitnesses (Luke 1:2)."  Luke travelled with Paul to Jerusalem where they contacted the apostles and Jesus' brother (Acts 21:18).   Paul himself consults the Jerusalem apostles on a few occasions (e.g. Galatians 1L18-19,  2:1-2).

Secondly, the Gospel of Judas is a 2nd century Gnostic work and there is no evidence that any Gnostic work contains a shred of authentic material from oral tradition.   In fact, there is no clear evidence of Christian Gnosticism in the first century, period.  The Coptic Gospel of Thomas may contain some new authentic sayings of Jesus.  But it is encratite, not Gnostic, and a sayings collection (114 sayings), not really a Gospel.   In any case, the misnamed Gospel of Thomas cannot even be confidently traced to the first century.

Thirdly, it is clear from first century Gospel tradition that Judas commits suicide in response to his betrayal (Matthew 27:4-8).  Mark is Peter's interpreter in Rome and composes his Gospel on the basis of Peter's teaching notes.  Papias verifies this from his conversations with the apostles and those trained by the apostles.  Peter speaks affectionately of Mark's role in Rome (1 Peter 5:13).  Also, Mark grew up in his mother's Jerusalem house church where the apostles and Jesus' family members were available for consultation (Acts 12:12).   More than once, Peter makes it clear that Jesus was betrayed by Judas and was grieved by this betrayal (Mark 14:18-21, 41-45).  Such testimony with an eyewitness connection cannot be nullified by a 2nd century Gnostic Gospel with no historically reliable pedigree.   

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scary_spice
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Re: Gospel of Judas
Reply #14 - Apr 12th, 2006 at 2:23am
 
Hi All. Thanks Marilyn and Don for your interpertations..Regards..Spice
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