Hey everyone!

I just wanted to run past you my thoughts and beliefs of the several ways to go out of body and would to hear what you think too.

So far in my limited exploring Ive come to the conclusion we have 5 types of experience OBE's. Dreaming, lucid dreaming, astral projection, phasing and real time projection. I will go through them one by one and tell you my thoughts of them and what I have come to believe each area is.

DREAMS
With these we have no concious involvement with, and it is purly to do with recall. We are out of body though exploring and sometimes come back with a strong sense of feeling like we were really there!  But dreams for me are really complicated and the term dreams doesn't describe one thing but a collective. When i think of dreams i think of that as one big circle, and inside this circle there are lots of other circles. This circles are different types of dreams we can have. To me theres one circle which is expressing desires so sometimes we can have dreams about playing in a band to a million people haha! Thats a desire. Another circle would be a chance for guides to come in and teach us through symbolism and if we take time to work it out theres always a meaning. Another one would be afterlife contact, a chance for someone we hold close to come let us know we are ok. Theres also one for fears where we can play these out and learn they arent really that bad, or if not at least get more of an understanding. Past life recollection is another one where we can be shown our past lifes. There are a few more but i can't think of them off the top of my head at the moment.

LUCID DREAMING
This is exaclty what it reads, dreaming but with some lucidity, some concious input. For me I have found them really unstable and fast moving as we literally are in our dreams! I believe we are out of body but only with slight conciousness, my reason for that is out there we do things, see things which we would consider unusual in real life but out there they just seem normal in our dream. I think of this as basically your more in for the ride and go with the flow without relising. One example of that is in a real life OBE you would think about your movements, control where you are going, where as in lucid dreaming suddenly your just moving here and there. Usually people experience this because at one point that unusual thing is actually unusual! And that makes us question where we are and what were doing bringing in some lucidity here, this is usually follow by "Hey im dreaming!" lol.

ASTRAL PROJECTION
Forget the name, its the name i like to use because this one is where we project into the astral realm. This is where the majority of the time I end up in my travels. This time unlike lucid dreaming we are in full control and with full conciousness. Whatever we do, whoever we see, whereever we go is all made up by our mind and we are therefore the master of our universe. There are several ways to check we are astral projecting rather than what I call real time projection which I will explain below. The main way is differences, things changing. I think the best way to explain this is to think of a room in your house, how is it layed out, how are objects placed in it? Say you had this room exactly the same way for 5 years, this layout would be how you remember your room. Now say you changed it around and that night went OBE and astral projected, instead of seeing your new room layout you would see the old one. This is purly because this is how you remember your room, this is your memory of it and so this is how your mind creates it in the astral world. Another way would to notice something changing while you are out. Say I was in my room and noticed the door was shut, looked elsewhere and then looked at my door again and now its open! That would be a change and therefore a key to relise you are astral projecting and not in a real time out of body experience because as we know in real life doors don't just shut themselves! At first I think the lack of ability and experience to control and handel the projection gets confused with a lack of conciousness and therefore considered a lucid dream which is what I classed a few of mine. But when we get control and learn how to operate over there we relise we are just projecting. I also believe lucid dreams can turn into astral projection by gaining control.

PHASING
This is a new one to me and so far I have been lucky to have some good results! From what I understand phasing is like daydreaming but with yourself fully concious out there. As i don't really know too much and not experienced I will just say what I believe it too be about. I think you can have two types of phasing, one like astral projection where you make up your world and also one like real time projection where you are out in the real world but im not sure if you can do this, when i say real time projection i mean in different areas of the afterlife. So we can visit places where we are meeting up for some partnered exploration, do retrivals and make contact with the afterlife. The main difference with this and projection is with projection you feel your body out there whereas in phasing I have found you more know you have a body and use it but don't feel like like you do in real life or projection.

REAL TIME PROJECTION
This is like astral projection, we have left out body, we can feel our projection body but we are in real time in real life. This is the area of out of body projection where you can verify physical events from a non physical view. I have read stories of people seeing a car crash while flying over there town to confirm that that crash had really taken place exactly like they saw it! I like to think of real time projection experiencing it how a spirit would. We can influence our physical surroundings from the non physical, move things, definatly not just as easy as it sounds sayin it! I don't know how you do it as I have never myself experienced a real time projection yet, this is the ultimate form to me of projections. I think here we can attain the most proof for the reality of going out of body.

I failed to mention the afterlife in all of this as I'm not quite sure where it fits in and personally have no proof yet of it even though i do honestly believe in it real its just i like my proof haha! So i kept it purly to do with projection and going out of body which i 110% believe in.

Well there ya go, well if you know me you will know im crazy about my OBEs lol so would love to hear your thoughts on this and what you also think if different.

Ryan

Ryan,

Good work.  I'm so pleased to see how much thought you've put into studying your experiences.  I have several variances I'd like to add from my own personal experience.

I agree that there seem to be several levels, some vary greatly and some are more subtle in their differences.  

What you call real-time OBE is a good name for it I think.  I would also call them a physical-focus OBE.  In my experience, a physical-focus, real-time OBE does not necessarily mean that you will see the physical world precisely.  No matter what kind of reality we are experiencing, the bottom line is that we are receiving information at a subconscious level and then we integrate it into our consciousness.  This is how memory of new information gets created/stored.  We interpret the new information within the framework of our beliefs and past experiences, etc.  And in that way we are essentially bridging the new information with "old" information, i.e. ideas, associations, thoughts, that we already have in our conscious minds.  I think of our memories as dominos--each one connected to another, and thus any memory can be accessed through its ties with another memory.  (That's easier said than done, but that's how I make sense of it). Anyway, my point with all this is that in the physical world it is easier to perceive and interpret more precisely to an exact level.  In other words, in the physical if we are looking at the same thing we will usually see the same thing--but not always.  We still have our own interpretations working for us, that is why memory recall of an event can vary from person to person, even if they each witnessed the same event.

In the nonphysical realm, however, the "exactness" is going to have much more variances.  As in partnered exploration, from what I understand, when two or more people are experiencing something, their account can vary due to each person's Perceiver and Interpreter working for them, but the information is the same.  

What you call Astral projection, well I guess that's a good name too.  I don't know what else to call it.  But I have OBE's into this realm, and it is where "thoughts are things".  I have read that there are varying levels within this realm, but I don't have personal experience with that concept.  My experience is limited.  But from what I know to be true, I do believe that more than one consciousness can be in the same astral space, each of them experiencing the same information but interpreting it in their own way.  Each person's perception could possibly vary, even if it is very subtle.  I do believe this.  And I think this might be so because not everyone will be at the same level of conscious awareness at any given moment, during any given event of information.  Even in physical reality, one person can be very alert while the person next to him is only mildly alert (in other words day dreaming), and even though both were present during the same event, they will not have the same interpretation (memory) of what took place.  

In the astral OBE experience, each person in the experience will be perceiving from their own level of perception and each will thus have their own level of memory of the event, if any at all.  Ultimately, this has me believe that at any given moment in any given reality, we are operating from a certain perspective.  Usually in the physical, your perspective is very narrowed and limited because of the limitations and "rules" that govern physical reality.  But we also know that there are times when we are more in tune with our higher self perspective--for instance, when we have experiences of great inspiration, insight, or pure unconditional love and understanding, etc.  In the physical we can tune into this higher realm if we chose to open ourselves up to it through practice such as with meditation.  But I also believe that in the OBE state, we can be operating from varying perspectives, from a lower one all the way up through the higher realms.  

I have experienced several of these levels, so what I'm writing here is based on my own personal experience.  And I do believe that when we are experiencing an OBE from the lower perspectives, the way that we perceive information is going to be a bit more subjective.  However, even at the higher level perspectives, we still do have our perceiver and interpreter working for us and that means that how we see what we see is based on how we interpret the information coming into our awareness.  The information itself does not change, only our interpretation of it does.  I think that at the higher realms, it is easier to interpret information to its truest meaning, with little room for error so to speak.  At the lower levels, there is more room for our emotions and egos to play a part in running away with our interpretations.  (Ryan, this may be what is happening when you have your scary or weird OBE's).  

Now, if I knew how one would be able to push himself to a higher realm, I would tell you.  But I haven't figured it out yet.  

Another thing I have noticed, is that even if I am experiencing an OBE from a lower perspective, there could be another person in the experience with me who is operating from a higher perspective.  I find this facinating.  The implications of this concept also relate to how a person in the physical can experience seeing a spirit, angel, etc.  What you have is, you are at a "lower" perspective, i.e. the physical, while you have this other person coming into your awareness from a higher perspective.  You are both having the same experience, but from different perspectives.  


As far as lucid dreams are concerned--I believe that the concept of lucid dreaming means that you have conscious awareness that you are experiencing a dream.  In a lucid dream, it is easy for your conscious awareness to come and go, and lessen and intensify according to your degree of skill and emotion.  This is because at the time you realize you are dreaming, if you limit your beliefs to "oh my, look at this...I'm dreaming", then the dream is the only reality you will continue to experience.  However, if you had the presence of mind to say to yourself, "Oh my, I'm operating from the nonphysical--this is just a dream, not physical reality.  I would like to experience other realms of reality beyond the limitations of this dream..." then you could ultimately heighten your perspective and experience other reality than just the dream environment.  

Now, compare that to the concept of OBE--from my experience with the OBE state, I DO NOT have my conscious awareness come and go and lessen and intensify--to me that is an extreme difference in determining what is dream and what is astral.  Another thing to point out--in a lucid dream, let's say you lose conscious awareness...but the dream will still be taking place, still going along like nothing has happened!  I have not experienced this with an OBE--once I find myself in an OBE, I don't then lose conscious awareness thus forgetting what kind of reality I am experiencing, all while the events around me are still unfolding as if nothing has changed.

These are key elements in differentiating between lucid dreams and OBEs.  Once you have experienced it, you need no more interpretation of what is going on.  

What Alysia calls "dreaming true", I just call those ESP dreams.  In my experience, if I have a regular dream, meaning dreaming without conscious awareness, I may find later on that the information in that dream was true to physical world information, that I could not have known otherwise.  Thus, I picked up the information through "extrasensory perception".  To me, even though I dreamed the information without conscious awareness, that does not mean that I did not perceive the information while OBE--it could simply mean that I did not integrate the information into my conscious mind at that time.  The information got integrated through the dream state, along with all of it's symbology as dreams go.  But the interpretation is not the key element--it is the information itself that is key.  The information itself is what was gained through extrasensory means--whether that means it was through the out of body state, or through some other psychic means, but ESP is like a tool that conveys information from an experience.

Ok, I've rambled enough here.  Hope this makes sense.  

Vicky

Ryan,

I often disagree with your classifications, but I'm impressed with the fine distinctions you try to make and encourage you to refine these as you read more and have more psychic experiences.  For now I just want to make three points.   (1) Lucid dreams are more than especially vivid dreams; they are classically defined as dreams in which the dreamer knows he (she) is dreaming in the dream.  Thus, in my lucid dreams I'm well aware that I'm lying in bed "back there."  (2) For people like us who are very interested in OBEs, it is easy to have dreams of OBEs that are just dreams and nothing more.  This means more research must be conducted to help the novice determine what constitutes a genuine OBE.   Of course, waking OBEs seem to be more than dreams.  (3) You quite rightly observe  that there are various types of dreams.   Some dreams profoundly symbolize our personal problems and even possible solutions.   Other dreams have no symbolic import and seem to reflect ways our consciousness processes bodily sensations and memories of recent experience.   The line between "teaching" dreams and meaningless dreams is often elusive and needs to be better understood.

Don      

Alysia, here's an example of what I mean by one of my ESP dreams, and you can tell me if it is how you experience this type of thing too.

I once dreamed that a co-worker of mine was driving an old-fashioned car, like one of the very first types of cars ever made.  She had her husband and kids and some suitcases stuffed in the back.  She seemed kind of angry and very frustrated while her husband seemed content.  In the dream I knew they were headed for New York, and my thoughts were, "At that rate, it's going to take 2 years before they get there". 

So at work the next day I told my co-worker of my dream and asked her if it meant anything, because I had had such a strong sense that it was important to her. 

She was very shocked and actually said, "There's no way you could know this, but a couple days ago my husband said he wants us to move back to New York.  I don't want to go back, at least not yet.  He was adament about it, and I got angry with him and I told him maybe in a couple years or so, but I'm just not ready right now".


I did not have prior knowledge that she was from New York, and I had no knowledge of her conversation with her husband.  And I just can't see how my dream was pure "coincidence" in the sense that it had nothing to do with my co-worker's physical life circumstances.  So that's why I call this type of dream an "ESP dream".  (I don't know what else to call it).  I was obviously picking up the emotional energy that my co-worker was going through.  Now, they may or may not have ever moved back to New York, I'll never know--that is not what I picked up on.  As far as I can determine, my "ESP" was distinctly about her emotional state regarding this issue with her husband. 

I experienced this dream just like any other typical dream.  It did not play out in any extraordinary way, but I did have a distinct feeling that this was true information.  The dream symbology obviously needed to be interpreted and couldn't have been taken literally.  But that also shows the concept of how we interpret the information that comes into our awareness--and dreams, as we know, usually deal with information we know at a conscious level.  All I can think is that our unconscious minds don't spill information to the conscious mind all at once...it has to be presented in bits of information that is interpreted into symbols that we can understand and/or accept.   

Another way I "dream" true information can be during an OBE, where I have full conscious awareness and the experience feels real, and I am confused as heck as to what is going on.  This is not a typical dream.  But the information gained in the experience later proves to be true or an actual event.  (I've learned that when this kind of experience is happening, I just tell myself that this is not the physical world right now, this is not physical reality). 

I have to liken this experience to the concept that we are always planning and experiementing in the astral.  Ideas, inventions, stories, etc, that will one day become real in the physical world are being played out and tested in the astral first.  One of my OBE-type ESP dreams actually took place in the physical nearly a year after I had it. 

I also think we use the astral world to spend time with loved ones, connect up with friends, make plans, play, recuperate, etc. 

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?  I'd like to hear them. 

Ryan, you made me think of another way to experience being out of body.  This one is a bit more complicated, but I bet there are many reading this who know what I am talking about:

My son made the comment one day that he had a strange experience at school.  He said that while he was sitting at his desk working, he suddenly became able to also see himself sitting at his desk working, as if he was standing across the room.  He said, "It was like I was two people at once, both of them me.  I felt myself at my desk at the same time that I could feel myself watching myself at my desk". 

I told him that I knew exactly what he was talking about, which was a relief to him!  He said he almost didn't want to tell me because he knew it sounded crazy. 

This kind of experience seems and feels so perfectly normal while it is happening, that you don't realize it happened until after things go back to normal.  Then you have a sort of after-thought about it, as if to say "oh yeah, it happened again". 

Anybody else know what I'm describing here?

Vicky

Very nicely done Ryan. I agree on 90% of what you have written. Real Time OBE is what I have been calling them myself for a long time now. The experience happens in a time frame as the physical world relates to, also confirmation of ones experience if it is needed, is very possible.

The Astral Projection even thou alot of the experiences can be created in the mind, there are still those that are not and shouldn't be limited to the idea, or the confinements of the mind.

Have you ever experienced VIRTUAL REALITY PROJECTION? This is where you take a favorite painting, card, something colorful, and out of the norm and project into it. It is like Mary Poppins going into a painting, if you have ever seen the old movie, but it is a perfect illustration of virtual reality projection, and its fun and adventurious.

Doug

Hey!

Neat stories Vicky and Alysia and glad you were ok Alysia!

Cheers for the reply Doug, and neat idea. I haven't heard about that type of projection, seems amazing! There is so much to do! Can i nick your name for it for my personal collection of states please?

Cheers

Ryan

Sure Ryan.  If you have any suggestions, ideas, comments would love to hear them. My email is
dwdream@juno.com
Florida here. St Petersburg.

I never heard of virtual reality projection but now that u mention it Doug, I think I did that.
please don't laugh at me, oh, go ahead! lol. my duck which was special to me, got eaten by some wild critter so I needed to find him in my mind and escort him to duck heaven. it's called a retrieval so u can stop hurting. I imagined him and being there with him and teaching him to fly, as he was not the flyer type duck. we were just going along and I'd imagine this: ok, now Blue, lift the right wing. right. now the left; you got that sweetie? u be nobody's dinner up here. all of a sudden the sensations became like what u say virtual reality. I had become Blue, the duck, by focusing on the picture of his well being. I could feel the wind under my wing, and the thrill of flying, I could feel more things than ordinary imagination, there was the sensation how the wing lifts and the resistance it affords for greater propulsion. first time I ever flew as a duck. of course Blue was quaking too much. for sure that couldn't have been me quaking! lol. well, I wasn't sad anymore, I left him there in the sky. maybe that was virtual reality?

Vicky you always have the greatest posts. just wanted to mention I have some similarities in obeing to share..the click sound is a commonality among many obers. I have heard it a few times, in my forehead. I believe its energy leaving or moving in that chakra. maybe the thymus gland is there.
also, another conscious obe, I could see all around me, like there was that kind of vision, but it confused me so I asked to see forward only, that way I seemed to have more control, nothing like having eyes in the back of your head, eh? no wonder we flip back to the body so fast! have to work on that!

hugs, alysia