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Reincarnation & population increase (Read 8454 times)
Spitfire
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Re: Reincarnation & population increase
Reply #15 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 6:19pm
 
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I understand and I posed an argument why it made sense to me.  Can you tell me why we would be biologically intertwined but not otherwise?


Even humans here in the biological world, ar'nt as connected as you would expect... we are all born, into similiar, yet very different bodies. We each grow into different people.. some small, some big, some fat, some skinny... big nose.. small nose.. big ears...small ears. The mind... has infinite, possible variable's.. When someone gains enough experience.. they are almost 2 seperate race's.. which become so far apart, they are no longer able to communicate. would a 50 year old man, have an understanding of what joy a baby gets from crawling? or a baby from looking at a sunset? Our bodies... and our minds.. make for greatly different beings.. though, you are correct we can share some basic experience's - and i am sure we could do on the other side, but fully mingled into a vast consciousness, would be like having a 2 trillion people speaking different languages.

Quote:
Well, me neither, but like I said, I believe you (we) don't have a choice - we're all quite connected.  If you become disconnected, it will be your illusion, not everyone else's.  (imho)


Well if it's anything like it is here, then it would'nt be to bad, i would pay my astral tax - so the greater consciousness would'nt repo my house.. and seek out spirits i can connect with.. while avoiding the parts i dont wanna speak to, and maybe create a new race... and divide the parts of the great consciousness i dont like.. maybe a few astral wars later, i would have a nice place to figure out the meaning of existance.

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Ever study Buddism?  I have only read a little bit.  I think the lifelong pursuit of nirvana deeply involves our understanding of our ego and our place and how it relates to oneness.  Might be worth a look.  I need to read more about it.... seems to me the last time I did, the idea of oneness wasn't attractive to me either.   And I'm not debating it because the idea is attractive to me, it's not,  it just seems to be the most logical to me given what we can observe.   

I don't necessarily think oneness is instant and automatic, I think we spend a good deal of time experiencing things with a distinct awareness of our identity.  The thing that nags at the back of my mind is A) everything that has a beginning has an end, and B) in the beginning, we were one vast expanse of possibility - key word "one."


I like yourself, only know the basic principles of buddisim, everything that has a begining has an end, or is this mearly something our human brains can comprehend? i mean, were did the universe come from, before the big bang? perhaps we are all very seperate beings.. who decided to put a house together, aka the universe.. and when it's finished  a family can live here, and we all go back to our own reality's. Question b, is the limit of our human understanding.. and there must be more to existance, then human understanding.. as human understanding, cant understand very much.
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Berserk
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Re: Reincarnation & population increase
Reply #16 - Apr 3rd, 2006 at 6:22pm
 
[Roger:]  "Do you know of any research linking memories to  DNA?  If that's theoretically possible, it would perhaps offer an alternative explanation for reincarnation.  If we can inherit talents, why not memories of our ancestors as well?  Or at least those memories that caused strong psychic imprints.  It might explain why some of us have powerfully strong fears or attractions that are not otherwise accounted for in our own lives."
_________________________________________

In her bestseller, "Embraced by the Light," Betty Eade's NDE teaches her about DNA memory:

"I learned that all thoughts and experiences in our lives are recorded...in our cells, so that, not only is each cell imprinted with a genetic coding.  It is also imprinted with every experience we have ever had.  Further I understood that these memories are passed down through the genetic coding to our children.  These memories then account for many of the passed on traits in families, such as addictive tendencies, fears, strengths, and so on.  I ALSO LEARNED THAT WE DO NOT HAVE REPEATED LIVES ON THIS EARTH; WHEN WE SEEM TO "REMEMBER" A PAST LIFE, WE ARE ACTUALLY RECALLING MEMORIES CONTAINED IN THE CELLS (p. 93)." 

Perhaps, this notion of DNA memory needs to be understood in terms of Carl Jung's notion of the collective unconscious, which in turn is similar to the most commonly accepted theory of how clairvoyance and telepathy wor--i. e. as "an unknown form of energy which does not cross space but which reaches inward to the essential psyche of a person.   At this center a transpersonal mode is reached where all humans and perhaps all reality are united (John J. Heaney, "The Sacred and the Psychic, " p. 20)."

Biologist Rupert Sheldrake argues that the DNA molecule cannot contain all the information essential to the organism's formation; rather, DNA is a finely tuned receptor which taps into the information contained in the "morphogenetic field" of that organism, a field that seems to be the functional equivalent of Swedenborg's energy spheres flowing out from each organism.  Sheldrake contends that the form, development, and behavior of living organisms are shaped and maintained by this field together with genetic inheritance.  In a sense, these fields function like a kind of species memory through which the newly acquired characteristics of prior generations can be passed on to future ones.  The key to species evolution is this: the condition of an organism's systems is constantly updated in these fields.

Sheldrake put his theory to the test in an experiment he conducted on live TV.  Millions of BBC viewers were taught to see hidden images in puzzle pictures.  Before the program aired, a base line was established by observing how well people could distinguish the hidden image.  After the program, people from all over the world who could not have seen or heard the program were again asked to find the image.  The results indicated significant improvement in the worldwide ability of non-viewers to distinguish the image.

Sheldrake was building on the findings of animal research.  (1) At Harvard experiments on rats found that children of rats mastered a maze much faster (tenfold) than their parents, even though the offspring were not born at the time their parents were tested.  This result was replicated in both Scotland and Australia and the rats' performance dramatically improved from place to place even though there was no physical contact among the geographically separated rats. 

(2) In pre-WW2 Europe, milk was home-delivered in cartons.  A bird species (bluetits) suddenly began to land on top of the cartons, remove the cover, and drink the cream.  Some of the birds were even found drowned inside the cartions!  Bluetits have a range of 4-5 miles.  Yet this practice spread for a hundred miles within a year.  The same phenomenon occurred in Scandanavia and Holland.  Milk delivery ceased during the German occupation of Europe during WW2.  Bluetits only have a 2-3 year life expectancy; so all the avian cream drinkers died off.  But after the war, bluetits resumed their cream drinking and this habit spread just as before WW2.

(3) Fontana ("Is There an Afterlife?" pp. 22-23) discusses a study in which measurements were taken of electrodermal reactions on the skin of receivers while they were subjected to a series of both arousing and calming thoughts from a sender in another room.  The sender would visualize the receivers in a very fearful situation or as relaxing on a sunlit beach.  The receivers had no idea which type of thoughts were being sent.  Thus the experiments show that even when receivers have no conscious awareness of whether they are receiving arousing or calming thoughts, the unconscious or morphogenetic field seems to be receiving the information and registering it in physiological reactions.

Don
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Rondele
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Re: Reincarnation & population increase
Reply #17 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 12:32pm
 
Don-

The Sheldrake stuff reminds me of another experiment, a long time ago and don't recall details, but the essence was that flatworms were placed in a tank of water.  At regular intervals, a light would come on and right after that, a mild electrical current was sent thru the water, shocking the flatworms.

Then, subsequent generations of flatworms from the same original population were placed in a tank and, as soon as a light was turned on, the worms reacted in such a way as to suggest they retained a "memory" from their ancestors that an electrical shock would soon follow.

Again, I probably have some details wrong but that was the gist of it.

So....maybe what we think of as reincarnation memories are really cellular memories from someone in our distance lineage.

But there's a problem with this.  For instance, suppose my father as a youngster had a very traumatic experience of near-drowning.  Suppose it left him terrified of water to the point of not even wanting to get near it.

Ok, then suppose he had 3 children, including me.  If I have an irrational fear of water not otherwise explained by anything that happened to me directly, one would suppose that my other 2 siblings would have the same fear.  But suppose that they don't, that they actually love the water and all sorts of water sports, etc etc.

My point is, wouldn't we have to come up with some explanation as to why only some of my father's children "inherited" his traumatic memory?

Also, if there is something valid about genetic memories, we all should share common memories going back to the earliest humans.  Maybe we do.  After all, salmon always go back to the same spawning grounds.  Penguins travel hundreds of miles to have offspring just as their ancestors did centuries ago.

I think the best argument against reincarnation is what you said in a previous post.  Namely, if I'm hypnotically regressed to my previous lifetime and I give details about that life, the same details should emerge when I go to a different hypnotherapist.  But that doesn't happen.  I make up a whole different identity. 

People usually report that they were some famous person in a previous life.  Yes, there are many Napoleons and Cleopatras but very few nameless garbage collectors.  It's clearly a case of projection, we all want to be recognized for something, so we just co-opt a famous person's identity.  It's so obvious, you'd think no one would be fooled.

But fooled they continue to be.  P.T. Barnum was right!
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Cricket
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Re: Reincarnation & population increase
Reply #18 - Apr 4th, 2006 at 1:05pm
 
"My point is, wouldn't we have to come up with some explanation as to why only some of my father's children "inherited" his traumatic memory? "

I don't see why...if memory is related to heredity, there's no necessary reason it should be different from every other hereditary trait, and have dominant and recessive types.
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