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Mistranslations in the bible (Read 12360 times)
augoeideian
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Mistranslations in the bible
Mar 14th, 2006 at 2:57am
 
Mistranslations of the Bible

A serious mistranslation is-

Mark 15 v 34
The Death of Jesus

Jesus cried out  “Eloi, Eloi lema sabachthani”
“My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?”

This is a mockery.
The correct saying is:

Jesus cried out “Lem zabachthani”
“My wounds will be kept open by those who defame me”

Another; and for those who have taken this
message to heart, it is said with sensitivity.

Jesus did not die on the Cross for Mans sins.

As Jesus said to the Pharisees told by Mark 7 v 6-9

6.  Well hath Esais prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written. This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7.  Howbeit in vain do they worship, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8.  For layside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups and many other such like things ye do.

9.  And he said unto them Full Well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

As the washing of pots and cups …. Man thinks that no matter how he misuses life he can wipe out the memory of the hurt caused to him by the mere fact of going to church and receiving absolution for his misdeeds and, of course they say, Jesus died for your sins on the cross.  Why do they keep Jesus on a cross in their churches?

One thing Jesus never said was that salvation could come only through  the churches.

Jesus did not die for our sins. How Jesus must wonder at what has happened to the simple gospel which he taught his humble disciples.

Another; the missing Reincarnation law -

The church says that – we have only one chance in life and if you mess it up you will go to hell.  Does that sound like the loving God Jesus spoke about?  This is how the church undermines our very Soul; this indoctrination is saying – you are not that important, you are not Great, you are weak and feeble and if you don’t listen to us you will Die.  They are ruling by fear.  Because do you know what – we are Great! Their doctrines do not make logical sense either; if each soul only came into Earth once – the Spiritual realms must be in a state of chaos! You can imagine how many Souls there would be, from different eras – talk about over population and confusion!

There are only so many Souls in our Universe – they are counted!  There is a logical process of growth and development; we have gone through many trials and errors, joys and happiness, to be able to say I am what I am today and tomorrow.  No church can take that away from us.

Woe.

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augoeideian
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #1 - Mar 14th, 2006 at 3:00am
 
Mark 7 vs 9

The curious thing about the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church, and ilk; it is a mixture of untruths and truths.

The teachings of Jesus are there, the doctrines of the wine and bread has symbolic meaning. The praying to saints; the hierarchy and angels.  The Old Testament and the Word of God; albeit the history is mixed up.

There is however, subtle mistranslations that are so glaring they cannot be overlooked.  There seems to be a lie worked into the doctrine of these churches.  Even more so when the truth about Eve in the Garden of Eden is told; as too Mary the Mother of Jesus is released from their suppression of Her. 

This twisting around of the facts and the subtle spiritual abuse that comes with it, suggests it is a war against Adam and Eve.

Adam Ptah El Daoud his divine twin Evam El Daouda; Father, King; Mother, Queen Initiates of Spheres of Gross Matter (Earth’s rightful God) and their beloved children of the message; Jesus Arbal and his divine twin Arbel; Osiris and his divine twin Isis.

The church does not recognise Osiris or Isis at all – why? Or Merk, the space visitor, the shinning White Lady and the very Shinning Ones that are written about in other writings? Our past history comes from Egypt.  Why does the church not teach the meaning of the Sphinx or the Pyramids when clearly the biblical period, especially the Old Testament was written during the reigns of the Pharaohs? Especially when God said in the bible; He will put a sign in the middle of Egypt; the Great Pyramid of Gaza, a place of initiation and as a Geometry symbol; pointing to Orion.  Why do they not teach Astrology, it is so gentle for the hearts of men.

It seems the church chose to change meanings in the bible; completely leave things out and worse of all defame The Hierarchy.  But at the same time teach a religion.  My opinion is; they believed what they preached!

They thought if they could take control of the reigns of Earth; they could still appeal to the

Universe Architecture and the Divine Cosmic Breathe

(whom they did not know) for salvation through absolution.  Regardless of trying to overthrow Earth’s rightful God, they believed they would be saved by saying absolution and still rule the world!

This says, to me that the soul of Amen is not well , it is unbalanced and lower in intelligence.  They thought they could overtake the Divine Plan and at the same time receive favour from the Divine One.  They are not evolved in the true spirit, they are a lower entity who do not choose to Raise their or the people’s Consciousness. The reason - they want to rule the Earth.

The teaching in the bible has been handed down to us and has been translated and re-translated and it is a fact no originals are shown to researches who ask to look at them.  The Dead Sea Scrolls is an example of originals been quickly whipped away by the Vatican City.   

It seems strange that the church, the supposed interpreter of God and His Laws, should stand still.  Offering little or no comfort to the World at a time when there is such a desperate need for a guiding hand.


9.  And he said unto them Full Well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

For it must be understood; for Light to be known, Darkness must be known.  For Love to be known, Hate must be known. Did a roman solider not stab Jesus?

Here we must have an understanding; Eranus was banished to the Astral regions of the Earth where Setturn, the Lord of the Astral regions, used the satankic / luciferic  spirits to test the strength of Man.

This deception of the church is being used by God for Man - to understand this kind of enemy scheming and level of intelligence.  The churches are like a Veil, although I doubt the church comprehend this.  If the Veil is removed the truth will be uncovered.

God wants us to come to him willingly, not full of doctrine and false teachings; with knowledge and courage.

I cannot help but think though; the trickery of the Amens must be a dishonour and basically an irritant to the Hierarchy.  The Warriors of the Lord must want Justice.

In vs 9 Jesus said Full Well, this says a circle that will be filled in a period of time.  These times to go a Full Well before the Hand of God moves.

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Berserk
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 1:48am
 
"A serious [Bible] mistranslation is-

Mark 15 v 34
The Death of Jesus

Jesus cried out  “Eloi, Eloi lema sabachthani”
“My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?”

This is a mockery.
The correct saying is:

Jesus cried out “Lem zabachthani”
“My wounds will be kept open by those who defame me”
___________________________________

Augie, who is the New Age pseudo-scholar who fed you this nonsense?   in Mark 15:34 Jesus expresses His very human feeling of abandonment by identifying with the psalmist's words.  The saying you quote is an Aramaic rendering of the Hebrew text of Psalm 22:1: "MY God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"  No Bible scholar of any stripe (skeptic or believer) challenges this fact.  I can confirm this consensus from my reading of the Bible in its original languages.

[Augie:] "Jesus did not die on the Cross for Mans sins."
_____

Again, you display complete ignortance of Jesus' self-understanding.  I could prove this with a blizzard of Gospel texts, but will limit myself to two:
(1) "I, the Son of Man, came not to be served but to serve others, AND TO GIVE MY LIFE A RANSOM FOR MANY (Mark 10:45)."

(2) And why do you think Jesus established the rite of Holy Communion? "Then He took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, `This is my body WHICH IS GIVEN FOR YOU.  Do this in remembrance of me.'  And He did the same with the cup after supper, saying, `This cup THAT IS POURED OUT FOR YOU is the new covenant in my blood (Luke 22:19-20).

If you want to know the meaning of Christ's atoning death, just read my "Spitfire" thread, where I explain in considerable detail.

[Augie:] "This indoctrination is saying – you are not that important, you are not Great, you are weak and feeble."
_______

On the contrary!  It is saying that we are incredibly important: we are created in God's image (Genesis 1:26) and are destined to "paricipate in the divine nature (2 Peter 1;4)."  It is saying we are so important to God that God took on human flesh and, by His resurrection, incorporated humanity into the divine nature, so that we can ultimately achieve union with God.

Don
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flutterbug
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #3 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 2:58am
 
Don,

I've been reading your posts for a few months now, and I must say that I am impressed.  You are extremely knowledgeable about the Bible and interpretations of scripture.  Your words always make me smile.  Thank you for shedding light for so many who might not hear the truth otherwise.  Your blessings will be many.

Much love,
Bug
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hiorta
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Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #4 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 4:39am
 
Not a single word of what Jesus is claimed to have said, or what is alleged Jesus meant by what it is said he said, exists!

The entire theological industry is based upon fertile imagination and is the only one built upon superstitions, guilt, fear and remorse - all exploiting the basic human condition.
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augoeideian
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #5 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 8:16am
 
Beserk;

I respect your comments as much as I respect the subject.  I do not change my statements though.
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Berserk
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #6 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 5:54pm
 
Hiorta and Augie nicely illustrate why they belong to the myopic New Age ghetto.  Both are biblically illiterate and yet quite willing to parrot their ignorant New Age gurus' rants.  All respected scholarship would unanimously find these rants ludicrous.  Both stubbornly refuse to examine contrary evidence or to read books advocating the opposite point of view.  In other words, both lack intellectual integrity.   Must I once again show how Gospel traditions can be connected with eyewitness testimony? 

Still, there is one spiritual payoff.  As honest seekers see the mentality of these New Agers flushed out and descredited, they often thank me in PMs and become more balanced and open in their spiritual quest.  In that sense, Hiorta, Augie, and their ilk serve a useful purpose.

Don
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Bud_S
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #7 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 6:20pm
 
Quote:
Must I once again show how Gospel traditions can be connected with eyewitness testimony?  



don't know if it appies to your eyewitness testimony Don, but here's a fun read:
http://www.csicop.org/si/9511/eyewitness.html



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Rob_Roy
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #8 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 6:23pm
 
Augoeideian,

There are a few problems with your approach.

One, you are repeating something that falls within a field of study that happens to be well develped with many experts, many who are non-believers, who have established themselves as authorities on the subject of texual criticism. Yet you fail to give credit to any of them, if indeed you are quoting even one of them. Neither have you established your credibility as a knowledgable layperson in this area in lieu of an expert.  So why should anyone take what you wrote seriously? It would be different if you were stating YOUR OWN opinions and saying as much. But you put forth "facts" without substantiation, either by someone credible or by self-evident means.

Which translation of the bible did you find these supposed 'mistranslations'? The King James Version, The New King James Version, The Jerusalem Bible, The New Jerusalem Bible, The New Amercan Standard Bible, Josepth Smith, Jr's (The Mormon Prophet) translation, The Living Bible, The New Revised Standard Edition, The Vulgate, The Good News Bible, and on and on and on...?

A few questions you might want to ask:

Is your translation more literal (New Amercian Standard), or does it tend to paraphrase (The Good News Bible)?

Which manuscipt(s) was your translation taken from? Do you have any idea how many manuscripts there are and all the thousands of differences between them? There are more differences between them than there are words in the NT. Were you aware of this? So how can you be sure what you are quoting isn't full of translation or transcription errors, never mind deliberate tampering for apologetic purposes?

Are you aware there is no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church? You won't find a single official document by the Catholic Church that refers to the Roman Catholic Church. Go ahead. Look. But everyone knows there is a Roman Catholic Church, everyone except the Vatican, that is. I point this out because even though something may be common knowledge, it doesn't mean what is *known* by everyone is true. How much more careful do we need to be about supposed truths from a single source that is less than credible?

Why did you blow off Beserk? You say you respect his comments, after he tells you he can read Christian scripture in the original languages, but you failed to take him up on that. Why?

There is a brand new book out. It's called "Misquoting Jesus." It's written by a guy who chairs the department of religious studies at a top American university. It an easy read and part of the  field of study I mentioned above. I think you will find it interesting. If you cannot afford it, send me a PM and I'll send you a copy. In it you will learn of actual mistranslations and additions to the NT from a more credible source, and who knows, maybe you will be able to make posts in the future with more confidence and credibility, with points that have impact and believability. This book, btw, is the most recent in a long and very interesting line of books on the subject going back many years.

Rob





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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #9 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 7:21pm
 
Wonderful post, Rob!  Serious challenges can be mounted against Christianity---indeed against most worldviews--from a variety of perspectives.  Spiritual quests must have a high tolerance for mystery and ambiguity.  But one must at least make a token effort to investigate the primary sources and examine alternative perspectives.  I know that you yourself have done this and I respect you for that.

don
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #10 - Mar 15th, 2006 at 9:07pm
 
Don,

Agreed, and thank you.

Rob
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Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #11 - Mar 16th, 2006 at 5:42am
 
According to Berserk, I am myopic, simply because i do not hold the similar views. Ah well!

There still is not a confirmed record of anything the biblical Jesus is claimed to have said - far less of what it is claimed is meant by what it is said he said.
Supposition aplenty, invention, wishful thinking and pious hope in abundance.

But nothing whatsoever, pointing clearly to objective truth.

We pay our money and make a guess! Or, we examine and speculate.
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augoeideian
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #12 - Mar 16th, 2006 at 10:16am
 
Rob-Roy your message is understood and taken seriously.  Beserk your knowledge of the bible is admirable and i am enjoying reading your postings under 'spitfires theological issues'.

How can i justify my postings? I cannot by academics that is true; i can tell you that the mistranslation of what Jesus said on the Cross and the statement that Jesus did not die for our sins is from the Osirian Scripts but these do not exist in any academic library and so i might as well be saying they are from Jupiter for that matter.

Yes, the rest is my opinion.  i take full responsibilty for what i say and do not post such statements with blase for the sake of it.  God will be my Judge. i am not here to change beliefs or thoughts or opinions; i do not say that i know it all, for i dont.  i put my opinion forward, maybe it shouldnt be as brazen as a new topic though. i do respect the elders of this site and do not mean to offend. These things are important to many; i do know this.

i am not challenging Christianity, on the contrary, i am challenging the church who tells me what i should think about Christ who lives in me.

Some of the 'New Age' literature also has misunderstandings and grave mistranslations; to me (my opinion) it is an extension of the church preaching into this level of spiritualism. It is worrying and one must be cautious of this.

i have a posting that i would like to post tomorrow on The Cross ... and i'll await your valid and respected comments.

i understand when you say i sound vague and mystic and ambigious this is not my intentions - its just me (its okay for you i have to live with myself!)

cheerio.





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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #13 - Mar 16th, 2006 at 2:03pm
 
I don't believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, because I don't believe that we are sinners.

I believe his crucifixion represents that he wasn't a body, so there wasn't anything anybody could do to hurt him. The same is true for the rest of us. No matter what somebody does to our body, they can't hurt who/what we really are. Spirits/Souls that can't be harmed.

I believe his resurection is the real message. Through his resurection he showed the way back to God's kingdom, back to real life.
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Re: Mistranslations in the bible
Reply #14 - Mar 16th, 2006 at 2:30pm
 
Recoverer -
  You don't believe we are sinners?  Do you read the newspaper or watch the evening news?  One of the most fundamental experiences of life in general is that people do bad things to each other.  And if we look at ourselves then we will admit that we also have sins as well, or have done things to others that hurt them emotionally (or physically).  That old adage 'sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me' is simply flat out wrong.  I am at work now and don't have my bible handy, but there is a verse in Mark where Jesus is speaking and he says something like this - "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."  In other words, unless you see yourself as spiritually sick or deficient (not perfect) in some way, then Jesus has not much he can do for you.  Near death experiences almost all have some sort of life review expience that goes on.  While people feel greatly loved, they can also feel ashamed of things they have done (typically).
  People are extremely good at justifying what they do in their own mind.  However we can learn to look at ourselves with God's perspective, with love, and note that there are things that we can do better.  I would say that its debatable whether or not life and the afterlife are about anything else at all other than spiritual development.
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