Polly,

Your friend has been brainwashed by propaganda emanating from what just may be the kookiest book on Jesus and Christianity of all time: John Allegro, "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross (1970)."   For starters, Allegro's case is largely based on etymological arguments about word roots that no reputable scholar would embrace.   He brings sources to bear on Judaism and Christianity that had nothing to do with it.  But the bottom line is this:  challenge your friend to find one reputable Bible scholar--Christian, atheist, or agnostic--who views Allegro with anything but amused contempt.  

Allegro had previously done some acceptable work on the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Two of my Harvard professors actually supervised the study, editing, and translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls.  And in my courses there, the Allegro name would always prompt amused snickers.

Don

Polly,

I express my views on Adam and Eve in reply #9 on the "Adam and Eve Question" thread which is currently on p. 2 of this section of the site. 

The Bible is a book written over roughly a thousand year period by many authors using many different sources.   There is good evidence to connect many of these documents (e. g. the Gospels) and their sources with eyewitness testimony.  Obviously, no such  connection can be established for the story of Adam and Eve.  But it is silly to throw out the whole Bible simply because one cannot tolerate the parabolic nature of the story of Adam and Eve. This story is primarily motivated by a desire to symbolically illustrate the underlying dynamics of human evil.   In this respect, psychiatrist Scott Peck's analysis of these psychodynamics in "People of the Lie" dovetails neatly with the implications of the Adam and Eve story.

Don

One should read Graham Hanocks new book 'Supernatural' where he explores the 'role' of mind altering substances ... its very good!
(the book and the substances that is .. lol)

Matt,

There are plenty of well trained and well respected Bible scholars who are atheistic or agnostic and who have little interest in the personal relevance of Jesus' teaching.   I deem them my worthy intellectual adversaries.   The problem with the New Age movement and many posters on this site is their reliance on New Age wackos, googled websites, and channeling to get their information about Jesus.   This incestuous practice is worthy of amused pity and the "Ghetto mentality" label.  Very few posters on this site make the effort to read the best proponents of alternate challenging viewpoints.   Recently this finds eloquent illlustration in B-man's thread on Intelligent Design.   B-man reads no books on challenging alternatives, and wow, does it show in his posts!

For a challenging case on Intelligent Design,  read microbiologist's Michael Behe's "Darwin's Black Box."  I say read it, not what New Age apologists and mindless debunkers say about it.  For intellectual integrity, read primary sources on major competing positions and, in this way, find your own well-earned authentic voice.  

In this respect, I am very pleased that Happy Girl has accepted my challenged and is reading both Malachi Martin and M. Scott Peck on exorcisms.  Follow her lead.  

Don

Polly,

The great thing about reading "People of the Lie" is that it will greatly enhance your spiritual discernment and your ability to detect evil in everyday life.  Let me know when you've finished reading it and I'll explain how the four psychodynamics of evil that he identifies perfectly illustrate the point of the story of Adam and Eve.  Unfortunately, Peck himself does not deal with the parallels.

When I was a college professor, I made my students read and analyze Peck's book in preparation for our treatment of evil by world religions.  I did this to force my students to transcend mere abstraction and apply esoteric concepts to real life case histories.   My students generally seemed to love the book.

And yes, 1870 is a a type which should be 1970.

Don

Don,

I looked up "People of the Lie" on Amazon and some reviewers said it was best to read his other book "The Road Less Traveled" first.  Do you think this is true?  I have not read it.

Thanks,
Polly

Hi Polly,

M. Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Travelled" was a best seller.  I consider it very good pop psychology, but pop psychology is not my cup of tea.   Wait until you can browse "The Road Less Travelled" in a library or bookstore before you buy it.  If you want to read both books anyway, I'd read "The Road Less Travelled" first.  

M. Scott Peck became a unique type of Christian between "The Road Less Travelled and "People of the Lie."  His encounters with evil people seem to have cemented his conversion.  In any case, I strongly disagree with the reviewer: you can get a lot out of "People of the Lie" without first reading his first book.  

Hi lewelln,

You are bringing up a fascinating but mysterious phenomenon, the hypangogic state or the transition into sleep or out of sleep.  This state is not well understood.  But it can be naturally delayed or delayed with practice and focused attention.   The most gifted astral adept of the past 500 years, Emanuel Swedenborg, used this state as a means of mastering astral travel.   Ringing or buzzing sounds are commonly reported by people who are adept at OBEs.  But it sounds like you are experiencing a different kind of noise.   Does this mean that you are close to achieving the OBE state?  I'm not sure, but it's worth exploring.

I have experineced a few OBEs (floating near the ceiling, looking down on my body, performing a retrieval, etc.), which for months I thought were genuine.  I changed my mind when I learned to experience extremely vivid lucid dreams.  When I saw how similar my OBE experiences were to mere lucid dreams, I reluctantly concluded that my OBEs and my retrieval were merely lucid dreams about the OBE state and nothing more.  So I am suspicious of OBE claims about sleep-based OBEs. However, I have not yet achieved an OBE in the waking state.  If I succeed, I may experience a genuine OBE that way.  

Like you, I sometimes experience loud noises in the hynagogic state.  But, unlike you, I always experience these noises just as I am awakening. My noises usually take the form of a loud shout or someone shout my name.   At times, as I awaken, I hear a whirring sound and feel like I am being spun around in a washing machine.  Is this a sign that I am returning from OBEs?  If it is, I never remember them.  

When I was a teenager, my younger brother once awoke with a fright.  He swore and still swears that a saw a humanoid shape leaning over my body in our bedroom.   He intially thought it was my mother checking on my blankets in the midst of a cold Canadian winter.  But he wasn't sure; so he nervously said, "Mom!"   When the humanoid figure turned towards him, he (it?) displayed very large and bright teeth.  My brother was terrified and woke me up.   With a bit of false bravado, I reassured him that it was just his imagination.  

Behind our house there was a small woods, behind which there was a highway.  The car lights from the highway shone through the trees into our bedroom in strange patterns.   These patterns began to "spook" me after my brother shared this experience.  Today, he and I agree that what he experienced was likely a hypnagogic hallucination, but I sometime wonder if it was a spirit.  

I'd recommend that you explore the question of whether your "loud noises" are astrally significant by practicing the techniques in Robert Bruce and Brian Mercer's book, "Mastering Astral Projection."

Don