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Why do you say "despite"? Shouldn't it be "because"? Remember that CosmoEthics takes into consideration ALL beings involved, and in cases of widespread genocide, it is rather obvious which is the cosmoethical side and which is the anti-cosmoethical side.

At the individual level, we can never know for sure what is the single highest cosmoethical action (if there is indeed one; usually there are multiple alternative direcitons of potentially equal value, but depending on future choices for each pathway), but what each individual can do, is to carry out the pathway to which in his awareness, or to the best of his understanding, says that's indeed the cosmoethical direction to take.

The more evolved a being is, the greater the clarity of cosmoethics, and the closer he/she gets to 'true cosmoethics' or theoretical single most cosmoethical action to take in any given scenario. Which is arguably both objective and subjective, because the ultimate 'true cosmoethics' would be closest to, and in that sense dependent on or subjected to the free-will perspectives and views of the highest, most intelligent, most wise, most evolved beings or consciousnesses in the Cosmos. And speaking of this theoretical level of existence, there isn't any end. It's a fact that all beings have their guides & helpers who have their guides & helpers, ad infinitum. Evolution is endless.

So on a pragmatic level of usefulness, of individual self-responsibility, we do think it useful to bother with technicalities of objectivity/subjectivity, rather, it is vital that each and every individual does his/her best to do what's cosmoethical, to the best of his ability.

"But if each physical incarnate individual's understanding of what's cosmoethical in any given situation is so damned myopic, then what's the point of even trying?"

The very point (if he is to evolve), is that the individual does try his best. And moreover (here's the best part), the relationship of every intraphysical incarnate individual to his/her guides & helpers, as well as to all higher guides & helpers in general, is always that of a collegial partnership. So as long as the intraphysical individual is willing to make the conscious effort to work with the guides & helpers, it will be a productive enterprise in which we have, on the one hand, the greater cosmoethical wisdom of the extraphysical guides & helpers, and on the other hand, the physical opportunities on the part of the intraphysical incarnate individual, and combined, a lot can be done in what is surely the positive cosmoethical direction.

This is not just mere conjecture, the (specialized) extraphysical guides & helpers are always monitoring all situations meticulously, with the assistance of advanced extraphysical supercomputers to calculate all possible or probable pathways, and to access the cosmoethical value of each.


Finally, to address your hyopethical scenario question more directly but briefly :

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If I were indeed present, it would of course depend on my role in that situation. That is to say, as in a hollywood production script, many karmic roles are indeed 'scripted', but it's a dynamic script with the inclusion of free will. For instance, before a lifetime, the souls for some of the roles might carry out a rehearsal, including the ones in opposing militaries, for scenarios in which they would be guided to a planned confrontation with each other, with various possible choices for each individual.

The Germans of course had their share of advanced souls, whom for many were 'tested' or rather given opportunities in which they had to demonstrate the strength of their will, compassion and cosmoethical courage, by either secretly helping those persecuted by the Nazi's, or in various other ways.

Assuming I was a member of the Allied nations against the Nazis, would I have taken up arms against them? The answer would depend on the individual I was incarnated as, his role and opportunities. But the simple answer would be (assuming no other particular pre-planned role for that incarnation), if there was no other way or opportunity in sight to assist the cosmoethics of the situation in a non-violent way (ie. peaceful means or support for the ending an anticosmoethical regime), then the taking up of arms and utilization of violence, would indeed be a cosmoethical step and the karma of the violence (there will be karma for everything, every thought, emotion, action; this is unaviodable), would be mitigated and modified; different from the same amount of violence carried out by say, the Nazi commanders, because the intention was totally different. And for the Nazi commanders vs the ground soldiers, again slightly different. But this process of karma is natural and automatic and not judged.


Matthew, Dave. Back to you.

(We all understand each other's "three major emphases" or "complementary streams of thought". So here on, it's clearly only a matter of further elucidation from the perspectives of the three emphases, and not debatorial. That is good.)


Kyo

Hi Kathy,

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You do? There doesn't seem to be one. Thus, instead of replying any question, I will simply make comments, which may or may not have any relevance to whatever it is you're meditating on.


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Karma is a simple yet complex matter. The aspect in which karma is "judged within consciousness", is not separate from the other aspects of karma which may be seen to be 'objective', or the aspect of karma that has to do with the consequences upon others or the universe.

The aspect of karma in which it is in all instances incurred, can be understood simply as - all actions naturally have consequences, no matter how small or large, no matter how direct or indirect. This is one aspect of karma.

The actions of the individual and their consequences, are evaluated or "judged within consciousness", in terms of what the soul or consciousness seeks for itself (ie. in terms of evolution and assistantiality). Thereafter (as a result of the evaluation by the consciousness), there are consequences, which may be understood as, "Ok, so now I understand more clearly the consequences of my actions on others. Now I understand what it is I wish to explore deeper, that I would like to experience certain situations that give me the opportunities to change certain habit patterns, and so on, in order to be clearer, more loving, be more towards what I truly wish, for myself, for the universe. So this is what I've learn, this is what I still need to learn, and this is what I'm gonna do...")

And then, there is karma in terms of re-action, that is, repeated habit patterns. This is the aspect of karma which keeps many people, particuarly those who have not yet understood or realized the importance of awareness and effort to increase and maintain their levels of consciential lucity and clarity (ie. see the work of Byron Katie), trapped in repeating scenarios of suffering lifetime after lifetime.

For instance, the husband who leaves the tearful wife to go to war only to die on the battlefield. The conflicting feelings of frustration, of abandonment, of duty to brotherhood, of tragedy, of sorrow, of regret, etc. All of these create karma on many levels, including the karma of repeating habit patterns that result in a similar scenario occuring lifetime after lifetime, which is not a punishment ordained by any higher power, but is really a self-causing and self-imposed habit pattern that automatically attracts such situations or scenarios, and within which always holds the solution, the key, the opportunity for the individuals involved, to learn the lessons involved, to see clearly the situation (ie. from viewpoint of love and the Law of Reflection, not from fear and ego; see work of Byron Katie), and thus to break out of the limiting habit patterns that cause the (otherwise) endless suffering.


For those wishing to study the nature of Karma further :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/WayOfKarma/index.htm

Hi again Kathy,

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It would be interesting if you posed this question to Hilarion; but it'll probably have to be in a personal Reading rather than a generic Quarterly Channeling (ie. Spring Equinox, Summer Solstic, Fall Equionix, Winter Solstice), as the abstract and rather philosophical nature of your question might not be seen as being the most relevant to the concerns of most people.

My comments, which again may not be what you're seeking, in large part because what you're speaking of, goes beyond the available terminology (eg.  you implied essence = energy = consciousness = intelligence = love; hence you appear to be speaking of concepts that these words do not quite precisely refer to, at least from our usage of these words).

The relationship between consciousness and energy/matter is an inseparable, intimate one. Immanent or impersonal, universalistic energy, is modified, transformed and expressed by consciousness, into Consciential, personal, thosenic (thoughts & emotions) energy.

So are we consciousnesses, or are we energy? Ans : We are consciousnesses whose very function manifests as energy. Somewhat analogous to the relationship of Creator & Creation, Soul & Body, Yin & Yang.


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From our perspective - The nature of consciousness is to be (beingness), and then to do (doingness). Intelligence is an aspect, function, attribute, or extension of the consciousness, which manifests or takes the form of the mental body, mentalsoma, or mind. Love is the Oneness of All Beings, and in terms of true lovingness from the human perspective, the unconditional acceptance of what is, through the understanding of compassion.

From here, it is apparent, that you (Kathy), are referring to or dealing with concepts that are not exactly synonymous with our ideas whilst using the same terminology.


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The Law of Manifestation, the Law of Reflection, the Law of Karma, and the Law of Progress and the Law of Cycles feature prominently here (of course, from a meticulous wholistic view, all 12 Laws feature simultaneously, omnisciently and omnipresently in all aspects of existence).

When you intuitively said, "at higher levels", what you're recognizing, is the Law of Cycles in conjunction with the Law of Progress. That is to say, by consciouness "projecting itself outwards" (Law of Manifestation), of consciousness manifesting itself into energy/matter and various planes of existence, in which the "attraction" you speak of refers its intent to explore itself by manifesting, by going into doingness (Law of Karma), and evolving (Law of Progress) by reflecting (Law of Reflection) from its sojourns it's learnings and insights on its true nature.

After the complete balancing of karma (Law of Karma) on any given aspect of its being, the Law of Cycles dictates that in coming full circle back to origin, there will be a gain or progress in evolutionary terms (Law of Progress), which is what you referred to in "at higher levels is also continually grasping itself back to that which is its original likeness".

So it's not so much that the consciousness grasps back in, but rather that as it balances itself (it's energetic and existential extensions) back full circle at the end of a cycle, it gains permanently in Evolution or progress, thus directly contributing to it's Greater Total Self, or what some call God, The Whole, or The Cosmos.

This is important to appreciate, because otherwise, there would have been no point for it's "outward projection" or manifestation into various planes of existence in the first place, now would there?

As to Order and Chaos, they are inseparable, complementary existential aspects of each other, so whenever one is present, so the other will be. Much like Consciousness & Energy/Matter, Masculine & Feminine, Yin & Yang, Oxidation & Reduction.

Kathy, a personal comment here. From observations of your previous postings, your blog postings, and the nature of your questions here, the overall feel of your energies, it is more than probable that your soul origin, nature, history and purpose, is rather specialized or particular.

If you ever do a Hilarion Reading, I would indeed be interested to hear what he might have to say with regards to your soul's origin, nature and purpose. For instance, your work on Atlantis or during the Atlantean period, the world or planet you were originally from another prior to Earth; the specific nature of some of your non-human guides & helpers; your soul connection to various other-dimensional energies and so on.

One thing I find interesting about this forum is that some people need to think of an afterlife, and be awed by that possibility and not realize that everything on this forum revolves around consciousness, awareness, and perception.

I rarely talk of various levels of heavens and hells in my posts, except to reference maps others have drawn.  Why, you ask?  Because they are, by their very nature arbitrary and beside the point.  Our conscious awareness creates our past/present and future.  If anyone is stuck either earthbound or in a type of hell, it is self-created.  If we can transcend our egos, and focus on our nature as beings of perception (and yes, love), everything else seems moot.

This is why, Kathy you are exploring the original likeness of consciousness.  You are aware of your own nature, and now are going back to the unity and whole to get more answers.  Some may be unavailable to us while incarnate.

This thread, I believe is important because it takes for granted that we are conscious beings, and then gets back to the real world issues.  What is good/evil.  What is right action/wrong action (I was hoping I'd get more replies on that one). 

Some may read this thread and get dizzy, and say "its all intellectual masturbation and talk."  I would disagree.  These issues cut to the heart of our true nature.

Matthew

Bets,

You are absolutely right.  Intention is key and crucial.  It means direction, and it gives meaning to perception. 

I like your morning prayer.  I may incorporate it into my own scheme.

M

This has developed into quite an interesting and broad overview of a lot of related things that hadn't occurred to me when Imentioned morl relativism initially.  Thanks for the stimulating thoughts.

My thinking about propriety is equally relative. The Allies went into battle singing Onward Christian Soldiers, or some such thing, and the Germans went into batle singing Gott Mit Uns.  The Muslim shouts Allahu Akhbar before going Bang for the sake of property rights.

Taking the issue outside of its emotionally loaded context, we have intenton based on available knowledge, and we have the actual results, unavailable until after the fact. This seems to lead to four general cases.

First, to my thinking, the discovery that my efforts at being helpful have caused discomfort to others will generally cause me to revise my activities. I will suffer because I care about others, and to the degree that I love them (meaning, in this case, to the degree to which I share their world empathetically) I will feel pain. This kind of thing seems to be the source of the sorrow people feel when their bodies fall off and they realize that their lifespan has generally screwed up the world for lots of other folks. We feel sorrow because we love and sense our actions to be inferior of our own motives.

Second, to discover that my efforts to cause pain have actually been helpful is potentially an opportunity to feel good because I was unsuccessful.  Again, the reference is love,  and the ability to sense that in spite of failure to cause harm, I was spared the pain of having to deal with empathetic involvement in the pain of those whom I might have harmed.

The third case is the effort to do good, and its attainment. Trivial. Whoopee.

The fourth instance is trying to do harm and succeeding. Until my mind is altered, the usual result is that this sets me apart from others, and forces  me into a new life in which I get to further express my negativity. However, it seems that such lives primarily occur in social conditions that are quite negative, so that I fit in with my own attitude. Thus, I cling to creation of pain and find that I am creating it also for myself.

A variation on the fourth case as well as the second, is retention of the effort to cause pain. This will act negatively on me, and I will tend to choose a rebirth in a place in which my feelings are commonplace. In many cases, experience teaches that we also tend to bring emotional and physical problems into the world as a result. Fortunately, shamanic interventions, such as past life work, meditation, and insight, tend to mediate, so that we can improve, and get rid of the plagues to which our negativity has attached us.

It seems, at least from my perspective, that morality is a very simple matter. We do what we can, and we struggle to perpetually do better, and to avoid harm to others. A very much more concise summary is by Nisargadatta Maharaj, "Don't cheat. Don't hurt." All the rest is discussion.

dave