So he almost killed his son three times?  Held an axe one night and a carving knife the next right near the crib?  Almost threw him off the roof?

Is it just me, or would one episode have been enough to shackle myself in chains like someone turning into a werewolf? 

Why does Bruce find demons so easily?  Like thoughts (about the demonic) attract like?  I'm not sure.  Inviting any entity to possess you sounds like the ultimate in foolishness.   Especially with all that we don't know about the occult, and divine rules.

Still, I'm not sure how knowing about Bruce (and I've read some of his work) and the demonic enhance my spiritual growth.  We see so much of the demonic here on earth, it is not a surprise that it is found in the astral or spiritual lower realms.  So, what of it?  I like Kyo's and Dave's take on these beings, but they are on a far different path then myself.

We must stand for our nobler beliefs, and keep our thoughts and actions on the right path.  We are given plenty of opportunities to follow wrong paths or indulge our more bestial passions on perversions.  If that is all we do, we do not learn our life lessons, and do not progress spiritually.   I am sure that the lower planes and hells are full of various negative entities.  Most of us are unaffected by it.

By the way, Bruce is way out there.  He recommends skipping back and forth across running water, as negative spirits can't tolerate this.  He also is big on surrounding himself with garlic, and other folklore at keeping away negative entities.  If you read his advice like this, you get the distinct idea that he's obsessed with negatives. 

Don't be jealous, Don, that some on this board are obsessed with positives!  And don't forget to wear your garlic cloves and surround yourself with a water hose in a closed loop of running water tonight (as Bruce has made this around his bed). 

Matthew.

Robert Bruce THRIVES on summoning up whatever negative thing he can so that he can fight it and write about it.

The preceeding statement came from a good friend of his who is on the same list I'm on. RB was even at her wedding.

Namaste,
Mairlyn

I am prompted to renew this thread by today's Private Message from someone who has had a profoundly negative experience with a dark entity.   On this site, some have recently denied that they believe in Satan.  Such statements miss the point and I want to offer some clarity on this issue.

Contrary to popular opinion, there is no Old Testament concept of the Devil as an independent evil power who rules a demonic kingdom after his expulsion from Heaven.  The term "Lucifer" means "Daystar" (Isaiah 14:12) and refers to the ancient kings of Assyria and Babylon.  It is never applied to the Devil in the Bible.   It is a mistake to assume a uniform concept of "Satan" in the Bible.  The Hebrew word "Satan" simply means "accuser" or "adversary."   In the Bible even specific people can be labelled "Satan."  In Numbers 22:22, 32 the term "Satan" describes an angelic being who is no in any way hostile to God.   In Job 1-2, "the Satan" is "a Son of God" who is part of the heavenly council rather than the lord of Hell.  So our popular conception of "Satan" is only one of its various biblical applications.    

New Testament images of spiritual warfare apply to negative forces that strive to harm or even possess humanity.   By definition, these malevolent forces imply an antagonism towards the God of love.  Since these forces use deceit in their communications, it seems impossible to determine whether they are angelic or evil discarnate humans.  The real issue is not their origin, but their potential to harm us and the best strategy for deliverance (e. g. exorcism).  

The skeptic who dogmatically denies the reality of demonic possession must read the possession case histories in Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil."
How are you even intellectually entitled to a dogmatic opinion if you refuse to read the most celebrated evidence for the reality of the demonic?  For example, Martin documents one case where a young athletic priest is summoned to perform his second exorcism.   Since his first exorcism was successful, he seems to have been overconfident in his own powers for his second case.  He is struck dead by an unseen hand the moment he reaches the demoniac's bedside!  The vital issue is this: would a discarnate human have the ability to kill in this way?  

Consider the case of the Georgetown boy, Robbie,. whose possession inspired the movie "The Exorcist."  Robbie was simply using a Ouija Board to renew his loving bond with his late Aunt Harriet.  This led to paranormal manifestations (moving objects, shaking bed, etc.) such as those portrayed in the movie.  The movie os course exaggerates these. Robbie displayed superhuman strength and uncanny accuracy in his ability to spit at faces with his eyes closed.

The first turning point came when the name "Louis" was written in blood on a screaming Robbie's chest by an unseen hand.  The reader must decide if a discarnate human would be capable of this.  This message was taken as a sign that the family should relocate from Georgetown to St. Louis to find help.  That help came from the Jesuits at St. Louis University.  The protracted exorcism was conducted in a hospital.   Heavy furntiure was teloported across the room and there were other asotounding paranormal manifestations.   The breakthrough was achieved when Robbie decided to convert to Catholicism and receive Holy Communion.  A statue of the archangel Michael was placed by Robbie's bed to symbolize the coming divine help.   Robbie had a vision of deliverance and was cured at last.   The entity's departure was signified by a loud explosion accompanied by a flash of blue light.   The explosion was heard across the street.   Again, one must ask whether a discarnate human's departure could be manifested in this manner.  

Rather than assess the demonic in terms of metaphysical speculations, one should focus on what dire feats can actually be achieved by malevolent entities and then decide whether such feats are discarnate human capabilities. The issue is important because some New Agers are deternined to see these entities simply as troubled discarnate humans who need guidance and encouragement to aid their ascent.   Perhaps there are some such troubled spirits.  But this simple-minded assumption can be very dangerous if powerful nonhuman demons are involved.  One must not assume that all these entities are alike and similar in their malevolence and potential for harm.   Robert Bruce's near-fatal possession dramatically illustrates this danger.

Don

[recoverer:] "I'm not going to assume that Robert Bruce's story is true simply because he states it is."
______________________

We stifle our capacity for spiritual growth when we insinuate that those whose experience contradicts our beliefs are lying.  I acknowledge Robert Bruce as the most skilled living astral explorer.  There is good reason why his books sell so well and why he is a preferred guest on George Noory's "Coast to Coast" radio program on the subject of astral exploration.  I vigorously disagree with some of his claims, but I concede that he is a man of integrity.

[recoverer: ] "I've received spirit communications which have told me that something outside of us can gain control of our will only if we allow it to."
______________________________________________________________

Then how do you explain the malevolant possession of infants or very young children?  Consider the ordeal experienced by my cousin E., now a psychiatrist.
E's father was a Protestant minister.  When E was about 2 years old, his Dad, G., drove his wife and E to a woman's home to wait in the car while G performed an exorcism on the woman inside.  At the precise moment the entity was expelled, young E's eyes rolled up so that only the whites were visible.  In this entranced condition, E cried and screamed contiinually.   His parents frantically prayed for his release and their prayers were eventually answered.  As an adult, E's only memory of the incident was of his being lovingly cradled in Jesus' protective arms.    The very fact that entities can affect an infant in this ghastly matter wieighs against your claim that rational consent is needed for possession to occur.   Babies are hardly capable of such consent.  Only the prayers of E's parents saved him from possession. Other young children are not so fortunate. 

[recoverer: ] "If Robert Bruce's story is true, the fact of the matter is that he "didn't" cause harm to somebody. It is one thing to get a person's body to move to the point where they almost do something, and quite another thing to get them to move to the point where they "actually" do something. It seems to me that whatever being was involved was powerless to get Robert to make the final key moves."
__________________

Your rationalization strikes me as rather lame, given Robert's admission that he had to struggle with all his might to resist the impulse to plunge the knife in his son's body. 

[recoverer:] "Another key factor is that since Robert Bruce had the inclination to resist, quite obviously his mind and will weren't taken over. ...One would think that a powerful demon wouldn't come and go in such a manner"
_____________________________________________________

As psychiatrist Scott Pecks observes, all genuine possession cases are partial possessions which leave occasional periods for the victim's will to operate.   Peck speculates that fully possessed victims would calm down because resistance would be futile and they would not come to public attention. Since possessions are normally 'partial," demonic "eruptions" are normally sporadic.  Besides, the demon apparently wants to mask the gravity of what is happening to deter or delay exorcism. 

[recoverer: ] "Don ridicules the idea of nothing more than confused former human spirits being involved."
___________________________

No, reread what i said.  I concede that confused human spirits may occasionally be involved.  What I object ot is the facile assumption that all possessions have the same origin and the same potentiol for harm.  The question is not what we wish were true or what our doctrine prompts us to believe, but rather what the ectual evidence suggests is true, however diconcerting that may be.

I applaud you fo at least trying to learn more about the Georgetown case.  Have you read the definitve book on this exorcism by Thomas Allen?  The book, "Possessed: the True Story f an Exorcism" is based on the exorcist's diary.  Also have you read the books on this subject by Robert Bruce or Malachi Martin?  I think you would find them most engaging.

Don

Don:

I did read a book about the story of Robbie, and I'm almost certain that it was the book you mentioned. I got it from a local library, and therefore can't check the names by looking at my personal collection.  Eventhough the person who wrote it supported the demon viewpoint, there are clues in the book which suggest that something like a demon wasn't necessarily involved.

I read one article which said that a spiritualist visited Robbie's house and said that Robbie's deceased aunt was causing the phenomena. I don't know if this is true. It didn't seem like his aunt was a good influence. I don't believe that aunts should teach their nephews to mess around with ouija boards.

Each of us, while we're here in the physical, have the potential of becomming really negative people. It is a part of the system. If a person ends up living according to anger, hate, and irreverance towards the divine; and continue to do so after they die, then it doesn't really matter if they were a former human or demon. Malevolence is malevolence. Spirit energy is spirit energy. It is a matter of what types of beliefs a spirit is motivated by.

Regarding the possession of children, I don't know how much truth there is to it. If it's true, perhaps children haven't had the opportunity to fully develop their willpower. That's why they can be influenced by whatever belief systems they are exposed to.

When it comes to your cousin E, the rolling of eyes is hardly evidence for full possession. It sounds like he had a momentary occurence. The fact of how he only remembers being cradled in the arms of Jesus, shows that the invading spirit had limited power. Otherwise he'd remember something horrific.

I've had contact with lots of spirits. This has included experiences of spirits trying to mess with me. The first occasion happened while I was meditating one day. Suddenly I saw the face of an evil looking man looking right at me. My energy level almost doubled. I felt this really dark feeling. I mentally told this spirit that I'm committed to God and love, and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it. I tuned into love as much as I could. This lasted for about 30 seconds, and then the dark feeling went away.  With all the spirits I've been in contact with, I would think that if there really was one that could harm me, I woul've run into it by now.

Regarding this statement:
"Your rationalization strikes me as rather lame, given Robert;s admission that he had to struggle with all his might to resist the impulse to plunge the knife in his son's body."

Either he was able to resist, or he wasn't.

I do believe there are spirits who connect to people's energy fields. They have to find a suitable host in order to be a real influence. If a person lives with a lot of anger and hate in his or her life, he or she better become wary of what kind of spirit they might attract. If a person becomes addicted to some substance, he or she better be concerned that they might attract a spirit or spirits who thrive on such an addiction. If a person wants to mess around with something like black magic..., well, you can fill in the blanks.

I don't believe that a negative minded spirit can influence a person who wants to live according to love simply by sending them negative thoughts and impulses. A person who is committed to living to love would know how to resist such thoughts and impulses.

Hi Recoverer

If you research through the above link you will find the information.

I appreciate what you say here Albert;
Quote:


I dearly pray for every living form, good and bad, to evolve towards Christ Consciousness so that we may be free from all manner of worries and troubles and find peace within and without.

PUL

Irene love,

Christ Consciousness means Love and Light.

Have you not heard of this before?