Conversation Board - Question about Retrievals

Roger

Ex Member

Question about Retrievals
Oct 17^th, 2004 at 10:38am

The thing that I can't seem to resolve is why a person would need retrieving in the first place.

The reason I say this is because supposedly our Higher Self determines the course of our life before we are incarnated, including when and how we will die.

Therefore, even if a death is traumatic, you would think that the Higher Self or Oversoul would immediately understand what has happened and retrieving would not be necessary.

I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts.

(As a side issue, I wonder why ACIM says nothing about what happens when we die? It also sidesteps the question about reincarnation by saying it's really not relevant to the Course.)

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Alysia

Ex Member

Re: Question about Retrievals
Reply #1 - Oct 19^th, 2004 at 7:09am

: The thing that I can't seem to resolve is why a person would need retrieving in the first place.

: The reason I say this is because supposedly our Higher Self determines the course of our life before we are incarnated, including when and how we will die.

: Therefore, even if a death is traumatic, you would think that the Higher Self or Oversoul would immediately understand what has happened and retrieving would not be necessary.

: I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts.

: (As a side issue, I wonder why ACIM says nothing about what happens when we die? It also sidesteps the question about reincarnation by saying it's really not relevant to the Course.)
_____

ACIM is an emotional journey, not technical journey so doesn't say much about death or transition process except that it's an illusion.
let me interject Cozzolino's The Path, what he says about retrievals.....quote: "Extreme examples are battlefields and places of religious worship but they may include the house that an individual spent a lifetime building, the location of their physical remains to name a few; although a few are focused on the first layer (survival chakra relative) and refuse to turn their attention to the Light of Mind, most of the residents of the 2nd layer (lower astral) continue on after a short period of time. they are held there only by their "attention" . they soon recognize their situation and complete the process of transition. if they do not do so, there are many from the first layer who enter the 2nd to assist them as well as some from the 3rd layer who enter the 2nd to encourage them on.

love, alysia

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dono

Ex Member

Re: Question about Retrievals
Reply #2 - Oct 18^th, 2004 at 9:26pm

Good question Roger, never thought about this before. Maybe its the same reason we can't connect with our higher self directly (at least I can't) here...if we are not aware of our state after death are we just confused and not able to discern the spirit world as well as we can the material one. With the help of someone here it might be easier to get there. From what I've read there are many on the other side that are working overtime to get us over if we get stuck, would retrievals even be necessary if they were 100% effective? I don't know, but I am thinking they would not be.

On the AICM question, I recommend a book called The Disappearing Universe. Have never made it all the way through the course so I have no idea about why it doesnt mention anything about it, but found this book a few months ago and bought the course after. Didnt really know about the course but got interested after reading it. The book has a pretty good Q&A format, talks a lot about reincarnation and the course.

love to all.
: The thing that I can't seem to resolve is why a person would need retrieving in the first place.

: The reason I say this is because supposedly our Higher Self determines the course of our life before we are incarnated, including when and how we will die.

: Therefore, even if a death is traumatic, you would think that the Higher Self or Oversoul would immediately understand what has happened and retrieving would not be necessary.

: I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts.

: (As a side issue, I wonder why ACIM says nothing about what happens when we die? It also sidesteps the question about reincarnation by saying it's really not relevant to the Course.)

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gordon phinn

Ex Member

Re: Question about Retrievals
Reply #3 - Oct 18^th, 2004 at 6:59am

Roger, it's the disconnect between the Higher Self and the incarnate personality. It's fairly rare that they communicate. And when they do, it gets translated by the personality in "cultural baggage" terms. It's an angel, a devil, a ghost, a bad dream, a hallucination, a demonic plot, a CIA experiment etc etc. Folk need retrieved caused they're confused, fearful, ignorant, or just plain don't know they're dead. Some of them for hundreds of years, although most for just weeks or months or a few years "our time".

That's it in a nutshell.

gord

: The thing that I can't seem to resolve is why a person would need retrieving in the first place.

: The reason I say this is because supposedly our Higher Self determines the course of our life before we are incarnated, including when and how we will die.

: Therefore, even if a death is traumatic, you would think that the Higher Self or Oversoul would immediately understand what has happened and retrieving would not be necessary.

: I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts.

: (As a side issue, I wonder why ACIM says nothing about what happens when we die? It also sidesteps the question about reincarnation by saying it's really not relevant to the Course.)

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David Browning

Ex Member

Re: Question about Retrievals
Reply #4 - Oct 18^th, 2004 at 1:27am

: The thing that I can't seem to resolve is why a person would need retrieving in the first place.

: The reason I say this is because supposedly our Higher Self determines the course of our life before we are incarnated, including when and how we will die.

: Therefore, even if a death is traumatic, you would think that the Higher Self or Oversoul would immediately understand what has happened and retrieving would not be necessary.

: I'm having a hard time reconciling these two concepts.

: (As a side issue, I wonder why ACIM says nothing about what happens when we die? It also sidesteps the question about reincarnation by saying it's really not relevant to the Course.)

Dear Sidnei and others,
This is a question that concerns me too.
I posed a question to Bruce some time ago but he was probably very busy and didn't have time to answer.
My query was that if souls become lost and wandering alone in confusion and without their knowing, somehow are dependant on some goodly traveller happening to come their way and helping them to release.
What if no one comes?Such seems the case with some souls who have seemingly been lost for centuries!
My question is that given all creation is the result of a divine power that exhibits perfection everywhere we look on Planet Earth then why would this creative power be so lax and imperfect that souls be lost for in out terms so long or lost at all?
I would have thought that travelers to all the focus levels would have asked these questions before now.
Perhaps someone has and if so please share with us what has been found.
My only retrieval if it can be called that was 10 years ago when visiting America and I was staying in a motel in Angel Fire when I was haunted by a lost soul who had recently been murdered in the local AREA.All I did was to tell him to "Look to The Light" and he was gone immediately.
My only thoughts on this is that we on Earth Plane look at TIME on an Earthly understanding and perhaps in the other after death realms "how long" is not so important as we make it out to be.
Centuries can go by without the same sense of the passage of time as we experience here on the Earth Plane.
Also whilst it can appear that they are "Lost" they may not be at all in that sense.But merely going through a period of isolation that is very important to their soul evolution.When in their own Being a measure of change has taken place then they perhaps unconsciously send a signal that they are ready for a guide to take them to the next level of dimensional expression.
Perhaps in Truth nothing is out of order here.All is right and perfect for all souls whatever their "placement".
Cheers
David.

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sydnei

Ex Member

Re: Question about Retrievals
Reply #5 - Oct 17^th, 2004 at 1:59pm

Roger~

I have been pondering this same issue lately! And I mean no offense or disrespect in raising it here. On the contrary, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I would add to what Roger has already expressed (very well!) that I would think that our own soul, that selected this life and this body (with the help of our guides and oversoul and perhaps other advanced helpers) would recall where it came from and it's reason for coming to this completed Earth life upon leaving the physical world. I can imagine certain circumstances in which a soul would need to assisted to the afterlife (if the traumatic death, or death during a coma or such, left the individual soul in a confused state, perhaps unreachable by its guides and oversoul, or if the individual became so attached to this physical life personality that he/she was unable to connect with nonphysical guides upon leaving the physical world). However, even these examples would seem to be temporary conditions...I'm not sure. I look forward to hearing what folks have to say on this issue, and especially to Bruce's thoughts. As I said, I have been having trouble reconciling all of the pieces, just like you, Roger.

Love, Sydnei

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