one bad apple dont spoil a whole bunch you get good mediums and bad ones once i found £5.00 pounds on my driveway went to the spiritualist church and my dad came through via the medium what was on and said did i enjoy the £5.00 pound he left me on the driveway thats why i believe because of the evidence what comes through deanna

There are many ways to experience and receive ESP information.  One way is through direct contact with another person's energy.

The medium she spoke of about the chicken who said, "I have your granddad here..." was implying that she had actual contact with the energy of Deanna's granddad, in other words contact with his spirit. 

Don, it sounds like you are saying that unless someone can prove that the medium was in contact with the grandad's actual spirit, then it cannot simply be assumed that actual contact was made.  However, there really is no way to prove this kind of contact in the terms which you require as far as proof.  (Do you believe that a person's conscious awareness survives death?  If you yourself could experience sensing someone's energy would you then believe it yourself, or what kind of proof would you think you needed in order to believe?)

When mediums talk about feeling energy, they are describing that person's energy vibration, it is a "signature" for that person.   

I would have to think that not all mediums receive their information in the same way, so you cannot group all mediums into the same category as far as how they are receiving information.   However, "mere ESP" and "mere mind-reading abilities" are still very fascinating.  I mean, how is any kind of ESP by any means not intriguing?  What you referred to as mere mind-reading is still a process of one person's energy communicating with another's, whether consciously or unconsciously.  If you look at it as our minds being an energy field, and if I can hear or know your thoughts, then wouldn't you say that I am tapping into your energy field?  Whether or not I sense you as who you are along with that ESP info does not change the fact that our energys had contact.  Now, when it comes to talking about real contact between a deceased person and a living person, you have to take into consideration that the deceased person is making a conscious effort to make this energy contact as well.  In that way, they are able to be sensed and felt along with the ESP information they are trying to relate. 

I myself have had many experiences of feeling or sensing someone's energy around me.  Usually along with this feeling comes some ESP information that I could not have known through regular means of perception.  However, not all ESP experiences come about through feeling someone's energy, as it is not a requirement for ESP.  Like I said, there are many different ways to experience ESP.  Frankly, ESP is fascinating no matter how it is attained. 

About feeling someone's energy and having communication with them, that is something that you yourself would have to experience in order to know it and understand it.  I don't think it can be proven, and even if it could be proven to satisfy one person, it wouldn't satisfy all.  The bottom line is, you can only know what you know through your own direct experience.  Experience is knowledge.  Anything else is just belief. 

I myself wouldn't believe just anybody, but I have had enough of my own experiences to know that these experiences are possible. 

the spirit world is capable of a lot of things black napkins deanna

Quote:


Hi don ,

What you have to take into account is Hodgson's famous skeptical view of this subject.  The following extract is from Victor Zammit's website on Piper:
"Clearly, Hodgson's objections were not technically valid. Writers on psychic phenomena, even contemporary writers, have been too enthusiastic to write favorably about what Hodgson claimed about mediums. But these writers repeatedly,

• failed to show that he was not technically professionally qualified to investigate psychic phenomena,

• failed to show that he was not technically competent,

• failed to show that he was under a great deal of pressure from the leadership of the SPR to find against mediums.

• failed to show that, Hodgson's presumption of fraud was a deliberately uncontrolled extraneous negative and intervening variable,

• failed to show that the onus shifted onto Hodgson to technically rebut the evidence produced by Mrs Piper about the afterlife,

• failed to criticize Hodgson for not using science to reject the afterlife,

• failed to show that he was not sensitive to nor did he have the essential psychic knowledge to properly administer validity and reliability tests,

In his initial objections, Hodgson himself failed to show that:

• his claim about telepathy was a valid claim,

• Mrs Piper had the competence to read other people's minds,

• Mrs Piper, while unconscious at a seance, could read minds,

• Mrs Piper's telepathy extended to those who were hundreds of miles away from the seance while she was unconscious,

• the accurate information was not coming from intelligences from the afterlife,

• the information was being transmitted directly from a split mind,

There is no escaping the issue of who had the technical burden of proof. The onus clearly was on Hodgson to prove that his objections were valid. But he did not prove anything. He just said words to the effect, '... I can't prove anything at all ... I can't prove fraud, I can't prove cheating, I can't prove trickery against Mrs Piper but ... trust me ... do not believe anybody else except me ... just believe me because only I have the truth about these things but no one else has ..'

That kind of personal, intentionally prejudicial, unsubstantiated dogmatic claim was not the professional way to present rebuttals then, nor is it to-day."

Now is it just me, or is Hodgson a complete fool who is constantly contradicting his OWN claims????

i see your point black napkins tell you the truth you made me laugh  but spirit probaly thought because i was so heartbroken at the time because i,d just lost dad and i,ve never got any money  that the £5.00 would cheer me up a bit because when dad was alive he used to give me some money to help me out a bit it wasnt a lot because he didnt have a lot himself but he was that kind of dad he would give you his last penny deanna

Lol it is just me!!!

Thinking about it again has made me decide, if a medium like Piper can make a full-blown skeptic  do a total u-turn  on his own views of the subject area then theremust be something going on or Piper and Hodgson were more "intimate" (nudge nudge    ) then they let the public know.

I am looking forward to reading your posts and will be doing some deeper research on this area myself and will try to add some useful posts,

Good luck with the research Don

Vicky, here is Deanna's "Granddad" thread, to which Bruce responds, the thread that prompted my Mential Mediumship thread.  You are right: reposting the original thread makes my quotation of Bruce more meaningful.

Don

I believe that there are some genuine mediums who know that it is more than a matter of reading minds. When you communicate with spirits more than picking up on thoughts can be experienced. You can feel that you are interacting with a spirit. Spirits can do things such as move up to you and hug you in a non-physical way. They can share their feelings and humor with you.  You can tell that a conscious/thinking being is trying to communicate with you.

The kind of experiences I spoke of above don't go away because of how one person responded in a test situation.

We need to remember that spirits aren't in one part of the physical universe while we are in a completely different part. It is a matter of whether or not we can make an energetic connection. Therefore, our deceased loved ones can never be too far away from us.

Experience matters more than intellect based opinions.