Conversation Board - The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear

jkeyes

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #30 - Feb 5^th, 2006 at 3:01pm

happygrl, Matthew, Dave, Marilyn, and the rest of the family,

I feel really proud to be a part of a group who is questioning all things to do with being a practicing human. I too had my struggle with a non-physical individual when I attempted to do the PE in January and it was followed by “dreams” the following two Saturdays. But the first “nightmare”, for me was the most intriguing because of its realness. The other two had, I suspect, more to do with prophecies/undercurrents/perception concerning my work situation, which cumulated into a shakeup where we were coheresed into signing an “agreement”. Anyhow, my struggle with who/whatever in the first dream dissipated quickly by remembering experiences shared by Moen and Monroe in dealing with non-physical beings but this incident was short compared to your on going intrusion and reminds me of my clients.

In my field, working with individuals who have schizophania, especially those who can’t function and have additional substance abuse issues, whether they were born with the problem, got it later, or it developed thru the use of methamphetamines, etc., I notice that they might need assistance with recognizing that the intruders could possibly be more than the products of their local mind. At this time that assistance is not available to them. They have little support for that possibility or that they need tools and knowledge that will counteract the negative influences or support that their reality includes more than our physical world.

Since the goal of this board and your use of the pendulum, intend to make contact with non-physical aspects of others, or ourselves and then accepting that these expressions are real on the non-physical level, is essential. And by further acknowledging what we are attempting here is a non fear based level of inquiry to deal with all/any non physical relationships minus religious hang-ups or tunnel vision sometimes displayed in physical world/universe “only” science, we come ever further in expanding our knowing and knowledge base.

Other than that, Bruce’s tips of seeing it not there, remembering being loved or loving, having the belief that there is really nothing to fear except fear itself, or the infinity of other productive positive methods that can be used successfully, hold the key to working with or dissipating any non physical individuals. Either way healthy individuals like yourself and other contributors one the board are in the unique position of playing around with, contacting and interacting with anon-physical individuals whether they be aspects of ourselves or others, having them disappear/appear, incorporating them into ourselves, loving them, ignoring them and generally having them recognized and living to tell the tale.

Hopefully our hacking around and posting these shenanigans will help those who are not yet aware and seem to have little support for the possibility that they need tools and these tools are available (beyond exorcism, yadda, yadda, etc.) that will counteract obtrusive negative entities. Should they choose to become ridden of these influences or meet them on equal terms, they will have a pool of resources from which to draw from ordinary peoples stories, when they experience a psychosis, to add to those developed by the medical world and technology.

Keep us posted on how your doing with your “friend” as I can see, you have the primary concept well in hand, that there really is nothing to fear so the rest should be a piece of cake. And I send my 2cents with Love.

Jean Kiss

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Berserk

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #31 - Feb 5^th, 2006 at 3:58pm

Happy Girl,

Thanks for your willingness to seek out those two books. I have only browsed M. Scott Peck's "Glimpses of the Devil," but it seems an intriguing follow-up to his hitherto best book, "People of the Lie." Peck's psychiatric approach seems a nice balance to Martin's spell-binding case histories. I'd read Martin first.

Many of you recall my lengthy thread on the evidence for an afterlife provided by Emanuel Swedenborg's unparalled verifications. I have not balanced my defense of ES with my critique of some of his claims because I want readers to benefit from his astral discoveries. One of my objections to 'ES is his facile dismissal of the non-human origins of angels and demons. New Ager, Robert Bruce, has repeatedly encountered non-human angels during his astral travels. He observes that they cannot be engaged in dialogue, apparently because this might deflect them from their current mission. Kyo iis right: the terms "angel" and "demon" can in fact cover a myriad of different astral entities with a variety of different backgrounds. It just needs to be recognized that some of these entities can be dangerous. Happy Girl, it does not sound like your "ghost" poses a serious threat. I suspect that one payoff for reading both books will be an enhanced sense of spiritual discernment which will serve you well.

Don

P.S. When I'm drinking Scotch [as I was last night], I do love to stir things up Grin

. My communications become more blunt, but also more emotionally honest. I'm amused by the flurry of dogmatic reaffirmations that get triggered by my outbursts. My "ghetto" rhetoric serves a useful purpose. But Happy Girl, I'm impressed by your open-minded response and look forward to your reflections on those books.

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DocM

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #32 - Feb 5^th, 2006 at 6:30pm

Don,

You keep stirring things up. You are a good person at the core. This board needs a bit of back and forth and such. I come back here to hash things out, and I will be the first to admit when someone's view makes a lot of sense.

Back to fear, and this thread. I can't help but think that we all experience fear, and all are meant to conquer it because it is more palpable and real on this physical plane. In conquering it here, it is a real victory, and our nobler purposes and aspirations can then come through. I can't prove this, but I suspect that for most people who are not in a hellish afterlife or "stuck" in between, fear may not exist, at least not in the way it does here with all its consequences and sequelae. That would be interesting to hear about from a medium or one who has passed over.

I haven't gotten drunk myself in years, but it might be fun to get some of the main contributors on this forum together and tie one over some time

Matthew

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Ralph Buskey

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #33 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 11:49am

I have a story I recently wrote in my personal journal that may be appropriate for this thread. One of my New Year resolutions was to quit smoking pot for good ( which I hardly touched lately anyway). So here it is:

Negative Affects Of Marijuana On Psychic Exploration

Based on my personal experiences, by Ralph Buskey.

I spent around 25 years occasional indulging in the use of marijuana for altered states of awareness. I joined the U.S. Air Force right after high school in 1978. During the summer of 1979 when I was 19 years old, I was sent from my home base in Japan to Guam for an installation assignment. A few of my friends who went on the same mission talked me into smoking pot. I avoided mind drugs up until then, but since I was studying the paranormal and attempting meditations in order to achieve out of body travel, I decided to see if it would be of useful assistance. It didn’t help me leave my body, but did seem fun to experience anyway. Needless to say, I became hooked on smoking it, but not actually addicted.
Of course this led to trying other substances. I especially enjoyed psychedelic drugs. Over the years I tried meditating both with and without drug assistance. I succeeded in gaining out of body travel several times over the past 25 years, but not while under the influence of marijuana. Many times though, pot caused me to go on paranoid adventures which were not fun at all. That and other factors made me finally decide to quit smoking it altogether. One of the other factors was the creation of negative thought forms which sometimes took on demonic qualities. Since I understood the reason for their existence, I had no fear of them. One time, one of them wanted to try to possess my body. While meditating, it tried to sneak up from under me. I sensed it’s approached and jumped out of bed before it reached me, causing it to miss. Then I willed it away and never saw it again. Being fearless, I sometimes have fun with these thought forms, as they can never get the best of me. But after awhile, I realized that this could be a dangerous game, so I decided to stop indulging in the drug that I believe was responsible for bringing them to life. Since I quit marijuana, I don’t miss it at all and have no desire to ever try it again.

As George Harrison used to say, "It's all in the mind".

Ralph

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recoverer

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #34 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 2:09pm

When I was 15 years old (about 1973 to 1974) I saw the exorcist and it freaked me out. It really bugged me for about 3 months. Eventually I "suppressed" the realated thought pattern.

Years later it became time to deal with this suppressed fear, because I'm looking to become free of all limiting ideas.

Recently, on more than one occasion, I've woken up in the middle of the night feeling negative energy and with the belief that I'm possessed. I didn't feel a lot of fear at such times. Mostly dissapointment. But then I'd get reasonable about what I was experiencing, realized that I was free to use my body in any way I wanted, think in any way I wanted, and that nothing had stopped me from being the good person I am.

On several occasions I had woken up with the idea that something is trying to possess me. But then I'd come to my senses.

The above occurences tended to occur when I didn't have full consciousness. Either right after I woke up, or right before I fell asleep.

After reflecting and putting things in a correct perspective, I saw that the suppressed thought form addressed above had taken on a life of its own, and at times tried to assert itself by either making me believe that I'm possessed, or that something is trying to possess me. When its at the surface, right before it manifests, it creates fear. Once it manifests, and without the strength it imagines, the fear isn't as strong.

At first I would abate it by replacing the irrational thought pattern with thought patterns that are more rational. This had limited success. Lately I've been getting rid of the fear by tuning into love. Not much thinking is needed when this approach is taken.

I believe that people who preach demon phillosophies do great harm to people, because eventually, if a person wants to grow beyond the repression mode, they are going to have to face those fears that can manifest in a very strong way. Don't underestimate the power of suggestion.

I'm not saying that there's no such thing as negative spirits. But some people really over exaggerate their power and how prevelant they are.

If you allow yourself to take on negative tendencies, you'r going to attract negative energies. If you seek God and his love, and make yourself a good person, then you're going to attract positive energy.

While going through this process I've had a number of visions and dreams that have served the purpose of giving me the proper perspective. Here's one of them:

My third eye became very active. I saw a clear vision of a red landscape that appeared hellish. In the middle of the scene a stairwell led out of this realm. A man was walking up the steps. The words "Dante's Inferno" came into my mind strong and clear.

Even though I was familiar with the name "Dante's Inferno," I didn't know anything about it. I looked it up on the internet and found that it's story of a man who was in hell, but because he wanted to go to God, he was enabled to do so. If a person wants to move towards God and his goodness and love, absolutely nothing can stop a person from doing so.

The biggest foe one will have to meet is one's ego, because it will do whatever it can to stop a person from discovering a non-self centered love based way of being. It will even bring up the false idea that something is trying to possess you or in fact, has.

Regarding pendulums, don't they have a bad reputation? I believe that a person is better off asking God or their higher self for help, so they won't attract some unwanted vagabond wandering spirit.

One other thing. Negative tendencies such as fear, anxiety, hate, rage, ill will, and disrespect for God, exist within one's own self serving, irrational ego based mind. One doesn't have to look to some outside force in order to find them. Therefore, the best thing to do is to deal with them within, rather than outside.

Doesn't it make sense that if a person wants to advance spiritually and be the best person he or she can, God would set things up so that nothing could prevent he or she from doing so?

Perhaps when you give things such as demons a lot of credit, you don't give God much credit.

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Berserk

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #35 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 4:36pm

"Perhaps when you give things such as demons a lot of credit, you don't give God much credit."
_____________________________________

Recoverer, a very wise insight. Though most of my research focuses on Christian conquests of demonic possession, I believe that anyone who believes in a loving God can easily find protection from negative entities. I also acknowledge that genuine demonic possession is extremely rare and that much harm is done by ministers and psychics who mistake routine personality disorders for possession. I encourage seekers to read a book or two on possession cases like Happy Girl is planning to do, and then focus their reading on uplifing spiritual topics. From my reading, I'm also convinced that the danger of being possessed by an evil entity is not appreciably greater in astral exploration. So I'd feel badly if posters steered away from astral adventures out of fear of the demonic.

Don

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recoverer

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #36 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 5:16pm

Beserk:

Good to read what you have to say below.

In your experience, what are the circumstances surrounding people who have been possessed? Did they in some way separate themselves from God's light? Did they allow themselves to get involved with some sort of negativity? For example, they've allowed themselves to become a hatefull/angry person, or they got themselves involved with some sort of addiction?

Even when it comes to the true story behind the exorcist, my understanding is that the 13 year old kid who got possessed naively tried to become a channel, and ended up attracting a non-positive spirit.

Quote:

"Perhaps when you give things such as demons a lot of credit, you don't give God much credit."
_____________________________________

Recoverer, a very wise insight. Though most of my research focuses on Christian conquests of demonic possession, I believe that anyone who believes in a loving God can easily find protection from negative entities. I also acknowledge that genuine demonic possession is extremely rare and that much harm is done by ministers and psychics who mistake routine personality disorders for possession. I encourage seekers to read a book or two on possession cases like Happy Girl is planning to do, and then focus their reading on uplifing spiritual topics. From my reading, I'm also convinced that the danger of being possessed by an evil entity is not appreciably greater in astral exploration. So I'd feel badly if posters steered away from astral adventures out of fear of the demonic.

Don

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #37 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 6:14pm

Recoverer,

When I was a college professor, my office was next door to the office of an elderly friar, who is one of the most famous exorcists on the east coast. He was a personal friend of Father Bowdern, the exorcist behind the movie "The Exoricist." In real life, the victim was a boy, Robbie, who was heavily influenced by a spiritualist, his Aunt Harriet. She taught him how to use the Ouija Board.

When Aunt Harriet died, Robbie tried to contact her by this means. But a deceptive spirit conned him to gain more control and eventually possessed him in a uniquely horrific way that inspired the movie.
The movie overdoes the demonic pyrotechnics, but is chillingly true up to a point (e.g. the loud raps, the violently shaking bed, the levitation of heavy furniture and other items like holy water, Robbie's uncannily accurate long-range spitting prowess. and his incredible strength which made him dangerous and allowed him to badly injure one priest. Most chilling of all were the messages from Hell scratched onto Robbie's flesh by an unseen hand.

When Robbie was finally able to express a desire to be baptised, the power of the demon was soon in the process of being broken. The demon acknowledged that it could be vanquished if Robbie said one word, but added that Robbie would never be permitted to say it. Well, eventually Robbie did say the word, "dominus", the Latin designation of Christ as "Lord." Soon thereafter, there was a loud explosion accompanied by a blue light and the demon was permanently gone. The explosion was heard across the street in a Catholic church.

From my research, most possessions occur as a result of someone unintentionally inviting it in through some occult practice or even through a manipulative dialogue with a spirit during which the spirit is able to gain more and more control of the victim's psyche. The Christian gift of speaking in tongues can be the most uplifting experience of ecstatic love known to man. But some thrill seekers care little about an intimate union with God and seek the gift only for the emotional rush it can provide. For those people, the involuntary aspects of speaking in tongues can open them up to unpleasant spirit influences in a similar way to the Ouija Board.

I'd advise people to pray for divine protection during any occult exploration. I'd also advise people to refrain from opening the door of their spirits to just any spiritual influences. At the very least, request only loving presences. That said, I don't think the danger of genuine possession is nearly as great as many preachers would lead you to believe.

Don

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear Reply #38 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 7:01pm Thank you Beserk: My feeling is that if you want divine guidance it's best to pray to God or to contact you higher self (I don't know how you feel about higher self), and to do so with the intent of growing spiritually. Not for the sake of thrill seaking.
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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #39 - Feb 6^th, 2006 at 7:56pm

Recoverer,

I started my thread on Robert Bruce's experience of possession because of your higher self question. I doubt that most people who rely on protection from a loving God would have experienced the same degree of menace that RB did in relying on his higher self. What RB did was by his own admission foolish. That said, the "higher self" has potential as an expression to describe the creation of humanity "in God's image." I suspect that it's value in protecting one against demonic attack may depend on whether it can function as the equivalent of faith in a loving God. Understanding of the higher self may vary from person to person with significant consequences for cases of demonic attack. It is up to God--and not me-- to determine functional equivalences.

Don

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« Last Edit: Feb 7^th, 2006 at 1:32am by Berserk »

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happygrl

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #40 - Feb 7^th, 2006 at 1:27am

Quote:

Regarding pendulums, don't they have a bad reputation? I believe that a person is better off asking God or their higher self for help, so they won't attract some unwanted vagabond wandering spirit.

Recoverer,

Regarding pendulums, they only have a bad rep if you know nothing about them. Regarding asking god or anything else for help I wasn't looking for this entity, it came to me I did not ask for it. I'm not possessed I've simply been in communication with it and now it won't stay off my pendulum or out of my head, although I must say I haven't noticed it as much of late as I've been ignoring it steadfastly now for over a week nor have I attempted to use my pendulum to make any contacts at all. I know it's still there but it seems to be losing energy now that I refuse to think of it or contact it.

Berserker,

I still haven't gotten the books but I agree with Matthew, just because I'm willing to read a good story doesn't change my belief system. I don't believe in demons or angels or gods for that matter. There's really not any point in trying to convince me otherwise. I have my own belief system that works for me and we'll leave it at that. This thing that has attached itself to me is a pain in the ass, nothing else, I do not fear it, I've never feared it, I've just found it to be annoying and frustrating.

I have no doubt that one way or another it will finally slip away from me whether by my performing a formal banishment from my person/energy/house or by simply not allowing it to feed off my energy any longer as it has been doing for months now. I suspect it will take longer than I would like for it to finally give up and go elsewhere, which is why I'm willing to banish it myself as I'm really tired of it hanging around.

If all else fails I'll simply live with it and not worry about it any more.

I'm glad however that my little negative energy story has injected such an interesting new thread into the fray (pardon the bad pun)...

Blessings,
happygrl

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Berserk

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #41 - Feb 7^th, 2006 at 1:38am

Happy Girl,

I like your spirit. But I'll bet you're wrong about one point: if you read all of both books, you will change your belief system about demons and angels. That won't be a sign of weakness. Rather, I sense you are quite open-minded. In any case, I'm eager to learn your reaction. BTW, I'm not worried about you're becoming possessed by this entity because I sense that it's a discarnate human rather than a demon.

Don

P.S. Please read my thread on "Robert Bruce's Posession" if you have not already done so.

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happygrl

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #42 - Feb 7^th, 2006 at 2:03am

Berserk,

I wouldn't take that bet. You seem to think that I'm swayed by what I read...I'm not. I'm very well read and have an eclectic library and do indeed own several bibles, books on theology, histories of jesus etc etc...I also own an astounding number of bodice rippers, vampire novels, and science fiction, lol, I still don't believe in demons, angels, gods, knights in shining armor, or vampires.

Blessings,
happygrl

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #43 - Feb 7^th, 2006 at 3:15am

[Happy Girl] "You seem to think I'm swayed by what I read. I'm not."
__________________

In other words, "I'm stuck in my point of view and absolutely refuse to be influenced by new facts." OK. you've changed my mind. Amazing! You don't even blush to admit how close-minded you are about fresh insights into spiritual mysteries. Your membership card in this site's New Age ghetto is in the mail. Even so, unless you renege on your promise to read Malachi Martin all the way through, I predict that his case histories are powerful enough to blow you away and change your mind. What do you have against "knights in shining armor?" I love medieval chivalry.

Don

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happygrl

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Re: The Entrapment and Downward Spiral of Fear
Reply #44 - Feb 7^th, 2006 at 12:26pm

Don,

No I'm always happy to read NEW information, FACTS. Malachi is not new it's just Christian superstitions re-packaged to look like facts and written like a novel...that being said I promised I would read it and I will as soon as the library calls me and says it's there for me to pick up I'm looking forward to a fun read Grin

Blessings,
happygrl

ps: Have you been nipping at the Scotch again? You're being a little abrupt again...

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