Spit asks, "Do you have the credentials?"  Yes, a Harvard doctorate in Scripture and Judaism.   But I hate it when people try to hide behind their credentials.   Actually, Spit, I like your spunk.  When we finally do engage Scriptural issues, I suggest that you prepare a list of bottom-line issues that turn you off to the Christian faith.  It is easy to get lost in inessentials.  For example, I don't think any of your list of contradictions are genuine when the intent of the orginal languages is taken into account.   But I do acknowledge that the Bible contains contradictions and errors.  I am no Fundamentalist.  I believe in some form of evolution guided by some form of Intelligent Design.

I'm more interested in why you are turned off by the Christian God and Christ.  I suspect you are operating with a distorted caricature that can easily be corrected.  But let's focus on what you deem to be the more basic issues.  

I must admit I enjoy jerking you around, but when we seriously engage the issues, I will be respectful.   In truth, I consider you brighter than your educational level might suggest and I do view your spiritual quest as genuine.  BTW I think you would find atheist Howard Storm's book, ":My Descent into Death" a riveting catalyst for your quest because of its unique qngelic verifications and Jesus' amazing NDE teaching session.
 
Spit, name one good figher beaten by Frazier after his victory over Ali.   Certainly not a washed-up Jerry Quarry, who was KOd by Chuvalo!  You address none of my basic points.  

Ali is overrated.  Don't get me wrong: he was one of the top 5 greatest fighters of all time.  But it is far from clear that he was the greatest as he himself claimed.   The greatest puncher of all time was George Foreman, who quickly KOd Kenny Norton (who beat Ali) and Frazier twice.   I would rate him the best of all time, were it not for the dumb fight he fought aaainst Ali in the Rumble in the Jungle.   Foreman ignored the intense heat and humidity and punched himself out against Ali's rope-a-dope style.   What this means to me is this: the concept of "The best ever fighter" is relative to styles and personal vulnerabilities.   Foreman had a hard time with fast elusive boxers.   Actually, I think that the young Mike Tyson could have beaten Ali.  But like Frazier, he lost his skills very quickly.

Don

P.S., My seminary friend's brother was asked to simulate Ali as Cleveland Williams's sparring partner.  He wasn't a reasonable facsimile!    My Sunday School teacher, Pete Piper fought Chuvalo in his prime and won every round until he was knocked out with one punch in the 4th round.  Chuvalo fought Ali fairly even, but was well past his prime when he did.

Joe Frazier Beat Jimmy ellis, a former heavy weight title holder with 40 wins 12 losses - this was to get his 3rd chance at ali. After another fight with ali, then foreman then he retired.

It was true, that frazier was'nt as good as he used to be, due to his high blood pressure, but he was still world class, and he was still beaten.

I dont think muhammed ali was the best fighter ever, i think he was the best looking fighter - the way he moved in the ring, the way he took a punch, and i think he used his fame well [for the most part]

By the way, it was black napkin who posted that about you, i was merely quoting him.

ive gotta go out, but i'll make a list of reasons i dont believe in god and christianity when i get back.

Morning chaps,

Whats makes me believe god does not exist? i'll just list my basic ideas of why i dont believe he/it does'nt.

1)Evidence that god exists cannot be reproduced.

2)The bible contains 100's of contradictions.

3)Some of the bible storys, we know cannot be fact. Such as adam and eve, creating the earth in 6 days etc.

4)Why would an omnipotent being, need worship? and require worship in exchange for a pleasent afterlife?

5)God cannot be omnipotent, for he cannot make a stone to which he cannot lift.

6)God has to be evil aswell as good, as he punish's man for not living by his rules, therefore nullfying free will.

7)God, as all powerful, chose to create evil. God chose to create suffering, pain, misery... God made us to want to do evil, and yet he demands we deny our nature which he created in order to serve him?

8]Natural evil
Earthquakes, volcanoes, floods, famines, disease, random accidents, the suffering of children and babies, the suffering of innocent people as the result of things that are beyond their control. These are natural evils, the suffering that results because of the nature of nature, therefore god must want us to suffer, these things are beyond our control, and are not punishment for poor judgement, therefore god is immoral- i would'nt put my faith in this kind of being.

9)God sends jesus at a time in our history, when there was no equipment to test is abilitys? He sends jesus who "died" for my sins, but i was'nt even born - so i had no sins for him to die for, thousands of people died each year, yet they did'nt take humanity's sins away when they popped off. Ultimately it was gods fault for there sins.

10)In the bible, god slaughtered the eygption children, innocent's - he interfeared with our free will, and help 1 set of his children and killed the other, thats not a god i wanna worship.

Thats about what i can think of right now, i'll post some more after you read these.

Quote:


I'm in the process of writing several articles in line with many of the ideas expressed in this thread and attempting to explain and tie spiritual, philosophical, and scientific theories together based on my own experiences and understanding of these. 

As I wrote these, I had some aha moments that I believe brings some additional clarification to much of new age thought. 

Hope to have this done and online in the next month or so.

Kathy

Quote:


Evening matt,

Im only trying to prove, the christian god does not exist - any other type of god, interpretation of god, could be plausable depending upon it's characteristics.

Personally, i think we are all probley just a part of another being, the earth is the cell - the universe the body, and the more humans that come into existance is like the brain creating neuron connections through learning, the more humans the smarter we become.

With my "god cannot make a stone he cannot lift" was to prove theres no such thing as an all powerful being, aka omnipotentancey.

let me ask you, how do you know whats right from wrong? if you were 5 years of age and someone else stuck a gun in your hand, would you fully comprehend the consequences of pulling the trigger? do you deserve to be shot in return because you killed someone because you had a power in your hands you did not understand? If god created us, and is all powerful, and can see the past, present and future, he wanted that kid to shoot someone, for he did not interfear, thus god stood by and let an evil deed take place, thus meaning he condones what we consider evil actions.

I can understand, learning lessons, i do not get pain which is pointless, you can learn what cancers like by living with it for 10 minutes, instead of dying slowley over a few months, which means god [if he exists] wants you to suffer needlessley, unless he/it does'nt exist, and then it just comes down to 80% shit luck.

If you accept things which happen in your life, your destined to live a life of pain. If you fight with conviction and dedication to change your deck of cards, eventually you shall be rewarded, and if you ar'nt at least you have pride, which is somthing that lasts a lifetime.

Aright don,
               You was close, my name is actually craig.

If you dont mind me asking, what made you such positive believer in god? was it an experience/s or just based upon evidence you research from other source's?

As for my fights, i dont have any tapes as of yet - hav'nt been very active the past year, due to getting my graphics business off the ground.

Fraizer was never the same, your were right, he had blood pressure problems, and was getting tired easily, i personally think he was probley on a pill [forgot the name] which gets rid of water retention, but sucks the strength out of you, and overtime increase's the blood pressure. Although, they wer'nt steroids and did'nt increase his fighting ability's they were purely to make him look trim.

I agree george foreman was dam good, i think he let ali's goating and ali's reputation get the better of him in that fight, which lead to him making rash decisions. Ali was on water pills for that fight, and i think george was probley to, as they have both blown up like ballons these days which is a common side affect of them.

as with most sports, with modern science increasing athletes ability's, ali, foreman and frazier will probley end up looking like feather weights in 50 years time, but when i think of the greatest fighters, i think it's those who face equally matched aponents and yet managed to pull the extra 10% out of the bag, each and everytime they fight.

adios

Craig

Quote:


I'm really looking forward to this Kathy. Your way of writing/method of expression is very pleasant reading.

Love, Mairlyn

marilyn do you believe in the second coming i do deanna