Alysia, we just have to face the fact that this forum is not the loving forum that it used to be. Yes, there are some very loving people here but there are also some very argumentative people here.  As Spitfire said:

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He has also said that revenge is the way. To me, this is unthinkable.

I don't see Linn's forum that way at all and I know you don't either. It is very, very loving and we have created a living, loving energy there. We do question, but we don't confront posters with nasty put downs and we don't pick people apart. We don't have the energy vampires at Linn's that are here who drain the energy right out of us.

I just want you to know that I support whatever you do, whether you stay or go. I love you sis.

Namaste,
Mairlyn 

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Revenge may be unthinkable to you now. But what if someone murdered your daughter, you just gonna say they had to learn a lesson?.. I dont think you would, i think you would want to kill him or put him in jail, all of which is revenge.

Linns forum...is all love love love.... People who use love every sentence, seem very sensitive people, who cant take any form of confrontation.

The reason there aint no nasty put downs, is because theres no confrontation, everything is just accepted as fact. it's like "i saw a green pig flying past my front room window" and then follows

O did you, how wonderful!
love love love

Energy vampires? i like that. energy vampires to me, are people who find answers to problems, they dont sit ideally doing nothing accepting peoples word about extremely fantasized events.

It's the people who are not willing to prove there point/experience who should, show some "love". Which they claim to idealise.

Live by your principles, but dont hold them in stone, until you have experienced them being pushed to the max.

Best advice i can give you.

Spitfire,

With an "eye for an eye" philosophy, the whole world goes blind.  If you truly believe that love is the answer, or something to be aspired to, then revenge is gone from your thinking. 

Justice is different.  A loving person would not want another to suffer just for the reason to suffer, no matter if he/she were a stone cold killer.  A loving person may, conceivably want justice through law, however.  This does not have to be the same thing as revenge.  You will occasionally here families of murder victims say that they don't want the murderer killed or that they pray for their souls.  It sounds unbelievable to me, but if genuine, it underlines my ideas about love.

I'm not sure what I would do personally.  If I tore a killer limb from limb, the temporary sense of revenge would likely make me then throw up, and be in despair.  But these are my thoughts.

Matthew

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Aye matt,

Justice is just another form of revenge though, it's just tempered by society, and people who say they dont want someone murdered is because they want them to suffer for years in jail .

an Eye for an eye, leads to fear. fear = restraint.

the world has nukes pointed at each other, it has stopped huge wars through fear. the fear of retaliation and mutual destruction.

If some mindless thug, killed your kid and then bragged about it in front of a tv crew, i can honestly say i think you would wish for revenge.

I had some thoughts on revenge that I think do not belong on Alysia's farewell, but then these threads usually wander around a bit, having more free association than Groucho Marx could ever imagine.

I think the things Matthew just said make sense and I do not advocate revenge as a social policy, but...

like Spit said...if you've never been there, don't judge. Sometimes things go awry and logic and justice fail. Liberty and justice for all? Not really...Of course, in the past, I would never even have allowed that maybe revenge makes sense...not spiritually, but sometimes it makes sense emotionally.

Things happen. Does it matter what it was? Something happened, and I experienced states I never knew existed, much less imagined I would experience. Sometimes people do things (to you) that just surpass understanding. The anger would rise and it wouldn't go away. The Course says there is only love or not love, but from my perspective, I can separate anger from rage. Without justice, without recourse, without receiving understanding or support, the anger evolved into rage. It wasn't an indulgence. It wouldn't go away. The oddest thing happened. I allowed myself to imagine I could commit heinous acts on the perpetrators. And when I did, the rage temporarily lifted. I imagined things I would never have allowed myself to think of before. I would never have considered to think that I could think things like that. It was against everything I stood for before. And it brought me moments of relief.

How could that be? I read an article by someone who was writing about her experience with PTSD, which I had been "diagnosed" with at that time. She was the mother of a young woman who was raped and killed in ...Central Park?...by her boyfriend and it was called the Preppie murder, in case anyone remembers. The mom wrote that at the trial she would sit every day and "see" a bullet go into the head of the man that killed her daughter and that is what helped her get through the trial. Well, that made sense to me.  It is hard to comprehend how someone can just take a big chunk of your life and then just walk away. (and I thank her for writing her story because it really helped me).

Violence begets violence? Yes, in ways we don't understand at all. I think this is one of those factors missing in discussions of how to stop war. And we can argue philosophically about right and wrong, but unless someone can get out there and SHOW me how to walk on water, then well I'm not sure what they are offering. Walk with me...experience my ...whatever it was...and then show mw how to deal with it.

I think Elie Weisel might understand.

One of the problems with revenge is that you don't necessarily know what will be the biggest blow to your ...adversary. Maybe what they did will come back to them in ways I can't understand. Who knows?

So to Spitfire, I say, I don't necessarily agree with you, but I might understand....

Trust me, Revenge once gotten, is quite lasting. and satisfying.

Physical strength, is'nt nearly as importent as your will/drive to equalise the score, with those who would take advantage of you.

The thing about societys laws is.....they are corrupted. I once read something, which basically stated. "how can someone judge on an act, when they have neither witnessed or been on the reciving end of such an act.

if a drunk driver run over a child, could you imagine what it's like for there parents?, i mean we can all imagine what it would be like, but you can never feal the pain the way they do. So how can someone else pass judgement on the person responsible?.

I think a killer is sent away as a punishment, because 25 years is in a 10 by 10 cell, aint gonna rehabilitate someone, nor is 25 years gonna stop someone murdering again, it will probley make them do it again through going nuts. If it was to stop them killing anyone else they would lock them away for there entire lives/until some kind of brain re-programming is invented.

Laws, can make a murderer a hero or a villian. Revenge, is the purest form of justice - for it is based pure on 100% evidence as experienced by the reciever.

Alysia !
My dear Beans spiller.... yes... we will miss you, and the ones who doesn't......their lost.

We will find each other....whether here or "There", or another forum and we will keep in touch don't you worry.

OH, i forgot, Vicky...about your startement ["all the old great posters from the past who used to really love this site" keep on leaving it."]

a lot of us from the old guard haven't left...we are still here reading but "Cloak"and PM each other instead. We are here when they need us.

Pull to both of you and whoever need it at this time.
With love, Romain [color=Red][/color]