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Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with (Read 5239 times)
PhoenixRa
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Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Jan 9th, 2006 at 5:17pm
 
a common, underlying factor?  Been thinking about this a lot lately, and would like some opinions on the below statement.

Our western society seems to have a very 'feminine' (mother, romantic, etc.) based concept of love...this is the super nice, pleasant, feel good, soothing, outwardly peaceful, immediately comforting aspect of love. 

Yet there seems to be a 'masculine' side to it too, which is love that is firm, disciplined, and sometimes 'no nonesense' , challenging, and very honest with others type of love. 

Beneath both expressions, there is a desire, an intention, a motivation, to help ease/heal the suffering of others, one by absorbing, the other by blasting away, passive/negative/feminine and active/positive/masculine.   

Yeshua seemed to display both often, and more than not a combo.

i've brought this up time and time again, and not one person has responded to this...  A very intune, a very loving, kind, service oriented person, Yeshua was known to have criticized others.   If love is never critical, then how could one so filled with PUL have criticized another?  And to boot, he said some pretty strong words to certain groups and to individuals (this is not just going by the filtered and edited N.T. version either)?


  I'm honestly curious since so many seem to tell me that love is never critical, or strong in manner.   Maybe i have it all wrong? 

  Or....maybe as humans, who are polarized to one energy more than another, we tend to identify, express, believe in one expression more than another?

  So someone who is balanced to the feminine would tend to like, express, and accept the absorbing, soft, comforting, soothing aspect of Love...?

  And someone who is balanced to the masculine would tend to like, express, and accept, etc. the more forceful, disciplined, firm, brutally honest, etc. aspect of Love?

  I believe Dr. J had these perfectly balanced, and could come from either depending on the situation involved and what was 'needed' at the time.  He was both a Mother and Father figure, and sometimes combined the two...

  Yet beneath both expressions, there is that deep inner intent, motiavation, and spirit of wanting to help, right?

  Its clear that there is a bit of polarization going on at this board, and due to its strong masculine vs feminine energies...

  Lets accept both, and blend them, i say!

  Negatively, one seems 'fluffy', and the other seems 'harsh', but they are both equally important, aren't they?

  And...isn't sometimes helpful to the other person, to not let them walk all over you, to be firm and blunt with them?
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PhoenixRa
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #1 - Jan 9th, 2006 at 5:42pm
 
 I wrote, Quote:
So someone who is balanced to the feminine would tend to like, express, and accept the absorbing, soft, comforting, soothing aspect of Love...?

 And someone who is balanced to the masculine would tend to like, express, and accept, etc. the more forceful, disciplined, firm, brutally honest, etc. aspect of Love?


 Actually don't think that it is so simplistic...  

 Sometimes there is an opposite reaction too, along with the Like attracts Like...

 Sometimes when you lack one strongly, you idealize the aspect you lack...

 This is seen in romantic love, and in romanticism, i think...

 Being a guy, growing up in a male dominated society, and having a strong masculine side, though less strong than most guys i knew...

 I seemed to idealize women, and feminine love a lot for awhile...seemed to be because of my own lack of balance...kind of a polarization attracting thing...

  Yet it wasn't cause i actually lacked the feminine energy, its just that there was a polarization, a push pull, a lack of balance, and ultimately i would say i am balanced to the masculine half more so...

 ?????  
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #2 - Jan 9th, 2006 at 11:16pm
 
Hi Phoenix-Ra-

I have the impression that you are mixing the logical orders of the concepts involved with your question.  For example, you ask about love, and then give a number of ways to manifest it in a "fluffy" manner, and also a number of ways to manifest it in a "firm" manner. 

I suggest that these concepts, "firm" or "fluffy", are not properties of love, but of ways in which we manifest things. For example, I could manifest love while singing, or while shooting at an attacking bandit, or while having dinner or when happy and laughing, or perhaps while terribly sad. All these are ways to manifest, and love just happens to be what's being manifested, although it might equally well be frustration, dyspepsia, or a desire to be left alone.

If we separate love from its modes of manifestation, then we have nothing left except the fact that love between people acts much like gravity between big rocks.  The effect unites people into a oneness, a synergy that was not previously present. Where there were two minds, lovers tend to sense each other's thoughts, as if there is a merger on some level. In the end, love is the urge toward complete Oneness, as we progress beyond contingent liking and lusting, to romance and caring, and onward to merger at the deepest parts of our souls as we abandon conditions and melt into the Big Thingamajig.

Love is perhaps more evident if we look at its antithesis, rejection. We reject others to the degree that we set them off from ourselves, either by externally ignoring them, or by internally seeing ourselves as different from them.  Then total love means total termination of rejection, and at that moment we lose our isolated personality by which we set ourselves off from others. All there is left is the One, the Everything,  with which we merge. 

In that state, there may be times that you sense a pleasant feeling and are encouraged to be nurturant and supportive, just as you would make yourself comfortable when relaxing in bed. Or your kids, whom you love deeply, may be making a terriffic noise, upsetting you and the rest of the world, leading you to give them needed information, "That behavior is unacceptable. If you don't stop it I'm going to make you go to your rooms and be quiet for a while."

How people actually project what they feel is needed information is up to them. If it works, great! If not, tough, try a different approach next time.

dave
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blink
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #3 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 4:21am
 
Justin,

I think that masculine and feminine energies can be equally gentle.  I think they can also be equally forceful.  And two people can meet each other on a level that is harmonious no matter what kind of behavior they are displaying. 

A woman can be "forceful" in a playful manner.  A man can be gentle and firm in his communication. 

I think what is key is the level of sensitivity between two people.  Fully "hearing" someone can reduce any tension and conflict. But sometimes one must "know" a person to "hear" them. 

However, someone who cannot "feel" that they are heard will shout louder.  And our hearing changes in sensitivity just as our eyesight does.  If you read the words on a page they may sound a little different to you each time.

Perhaps if Jesus felt he could not be heard, he needed to speak louder in certain situations to bring attention to what was important.

blink
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Gayle ak PositiveLightHalo
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expressions of Love are various
Reply #4 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 5:53am
 
I think love is one when is wants to be complete. I think we all show to some extent a softer side of love and a side that seems harder.

I believe that when Jesus seemed to be hard with his fellow man, it was because he asked for respect from people that did not give it. Respect is a way to know the limit and not everyone knows this limit. Respect is also a key-element to preserve love.

I believe Jesus needed to make himself be respected and to show the limit, out of love for himself and for the task of love he came to accomplish towards humanity.

I think the seemingly-harder-side of love is an aspect of not letting yourself be a victim AND of not letting your internal love look weaker externally by people who abuse their power or who are ignorant of the nature of the soul. I think Jesus was very expert in his sense of respect towards his intent.
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Lights of Love
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #5 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 6:28am
 
I posted this on another thread, but it seems to fit in with this one so I've copied and pasted it here.  I agree with what Dave says here and this may be saying the same thing, only in the way I understand this concept.

Quote Mairlyn: “Perceive it all as love and you won't see it turning on and off. Everyone needs to give their ego a rest.”

This brings up an interesting question… how do we give our ego a rest?   

What we see in others is the exact same thing that we see and understand within our self.  If we see love in others, then this is because we know and understand love.  If we see anger in others, then this is because we know and understand anger.  Even when we know that we have a choice, we still seem to choose to do what we do not really want to do.  It’s like a constant age-old battle within our self.  Jesus for example described this as the spirit being willing, but the flesh is weak.  And Paul in Romans 7:22 describes this as a war between his inmost self and his mind making him “captive to the law of sin” and I could go on giving examples of the battle we each experience from other sources… but my point is that there’s not a human alive who hasn’t experienced this duality and the battle between our inner core essence and our ego.

Recognizing this battle and understanding it is how we can give our ego a rest.  Essentially it is the flow of energy that wells up from within us that we allow or disallow to flow easily.  The energy of our inner core manifests as feelings of free flowing love and pleasure and we all wish to experience more of this in our lives.  So why don’t we then?   

I think it is because we don’t have a complete understanding of this energy because negative energy produces pleasure as well and this is what confuses us.  When we lash out or make little snide remarks we feel momentary pleasure because it is the movement of energy that feels pleasurable regardless of what we are manifesting… love or anger, etc.  I think we really need to understand and “get this”… It is the movement of energy that produces pleasure!  What manifests from the energy is determinable by our belief system, which is riddled with fears of all kinds.

PUL not only comes from our core essence, it is our core essence.  As this energy wells up from within it begins to flow pure, but as it moves we much of the time either block it or distort it because of our fears that we have incorporated into our belief system.  For example, we are usually quite shy about showing our true essence and most of the time we don’t show how much we care or how much we love.  We cover our love up by labeling it, we squelch it to what we think is a reasonable degree of expression of appropriate behavior.  In other words, we don’t allow the fullness of our inner core to express itself as PUL most of the time.   

Sometimes in a moment when we are caught off guard and allow our core essence to flow freely we let go and out comes our inner essence in a sudden act of kindness or expression of love or friendship and a moment of close connection is made and PUL is released.  Then, not being able to tolerate the purity of this love and light we become shy and pull away.  It takes only a few seconds for us to feel embarrassed and close off a bit, thereby shutting down the flow of our love.  This happens because we started thinking things like… maybe I did something wrong, etc. and eventually we stop the flow of PUL.  So when we stop the flow of our life force, we contain it and distort it.  We bring ourselves back to what feels “safe” and “normal” because we don’t want to rock any boats… especially our own.  This is the human condition that we all are experiencing and we live in this duality of choice.

Choice is our free will in action.  In every moment we choose to say yes to allow our inner essence of love to flow freely by saying yes to a balanced, powerful and safe undefendedness or we choose to say no.  When we say no, we are in a defense mode that blocks our true essence.  And this is what I think healing is all about.  Healing is reconnecting to our inner core essence in the areas of our life where we have in our psyche disconnected from our core.  When we suppress the love and positive energy within, we also suppress our creativity, our health and our ability to heal ourselves physically, mentally and spiritually.  We always have the choice of aligning with our core or aligning with our ego.  The first heals us; the latter maintains the status quo.  I think we give our ego a rest when as Mairlyn says… we perceive it all with love… even our suffering.

Love, Kathy
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Gayle ak PositiveLightHalo
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #6 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 6:36am
 
Lights of love,

That was beautifully said  Smiley

Gayle
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #7 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 1:22pm
 
Nicely put Kathy.

I had thought I was afraid of the world, and I was simply afraid tolove .

Ha!
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PhoenixRa
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #8 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 3:03pm
 
  Hi Dave and Blink,

Thanks for the response, i believe i see what you both mean.

  Dave, i also agree that these expressions are not love, but rather manifestations of love, hence why i wrote, Quote:
Beneath both expressions, there is a desire, an intention, a motivation, to help ease/heal the suffering of others... 

This is what i believe is love, or at least what love is all about in a practical sense.

Hi Gayle,

  Thanks for the response.  You wrote, I think we all show to some extent a softer side of love and a side that seems harder.

Exactly!  This is what i was trying to say as well, and i equate the 'softer' side of love with Feminine energy, and the 'harder' side of love with the Masculine force.

  I've met people who think that the softer side is all there is to love, and vice versa i've met some who think the harder side is all there is, and it seems to me to be related to an imbalance within the feminine--masculine, yin--yang, passive--active polarities...  These polarities exist, and are very real in my book, and none of us have them completely balanced all the time, except for those He/She, Jesus, etc. types.   And seeing as we have an imbalance, we don't alway perceive these (or the one we lack, the one we're not 'dominant' in) too well at times, it seems.   When they are balanced, we perceive both and the combination quite well...


Hi Kathy,

Thanks for the response, as usual i agree with a lot of what you say, and very well written too.

Have a question about this statement cause to me its seems to 'absolute', you wrote, "What we see in others is the exact same thing that we see and understand within our self"

My question is, say when you 'die', and go before your council (like as talked about in Journey of Souls, or in Rosie's Soul Journeys), and review your life with those master Guides, or 'Elders', and especially if you're an 'younger' type soul, and when they ask probing questions about how you might have handled things differently, etc. and you don't have a clue...

  And they point things out to you, i.e. gentle criticisms, aren't they seeing something they think from yours (your Total Self) and their perspective you could 'work on' to grow more into your ever expansive, Light filled nature?  That you could be more 'loving'?

  Yet these are 'perfected' beings who have no darkness, or illusions within.   How do they see things within us that we need to work on (i.e our temporary darkness), and according to your statement above, they must have this within, to see that within us?   My understanding is that they only have Love and Pure Light within?


  I dunno, i guess i really want to have a long talk with a true He/She type, someone who has actualized that perfect masculine/feminine balance, and who lives PUL fully and completely.   I think they would know more than me, or anybody else i talk to here?

  Course, i might get a similar answer to what Monroe got, "what good would my answers be to you?" Smiley Wink

  But, unlike Bob, i'm not super skeptical, and if i felt the truth of their answers, i would go with it definitely, though wanting to have it reaffirmed by my own 'experiences' at some point too, i guess.

  Dunno, don't feel any of us have the whole pie here.  Too much theoretics involved i feel.

Thanks for the responses everyone,
Justin

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Lights of Love
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #9 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 5:47pm
 
Justin, maybe you're trying to read more into my statement than what I intended it to mean.  The following two sentences explain my meaning.  I'm not speaking of the afterlife at all.  Only the struggle each of us battles with as humans.

Quote:
What we see in others is the exact same thing that we see and understand within our self.  If we see love in others, then this is because we know and understand love.  If we see anger in others, then this is because we know and understand anger.


While I enjoyed and learned from the authors you mention, I haven't formed a solid philosophy regarding what happens to us when we make the transition.  Since Dave has done hundreds of past life regressions, he may be able to answer your questions better than I.

K
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #10 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 6:58pm
 
I believe that when a person has reached the point where he (or she) feels absolutely no judgment towards the person he is relating to,  and absolutely no sense of having to get that person to be a certain way in order to feel as if things are going well, then he'll be able to know if tough love is needed.

Regarding the later, if a person completly understands what happens beyond the illusion of time, then even if a tough love approach is needed, he won't inwardly feel anxious to use such an approach.

Or to put it another way, when a person uses a tough love approach, he needs to be honest about whether he is using such an approach to make himself feel better, or because he "clearly" sees that this is the way to help the other person.

There have been too many phoney gurus, preachers etc. that have been abusive to their followers all in the supposed name of love.

One other thing. If one of the main goals of life is to find the source of love, can one be bullied into realizing such a thing?
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #11 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 8:40pm
 
HI Recoverer-
I like Kathy's expression, and all the input from my regressees seems to follow both that, and what you are saying as well.

From a slightly different perspective, Buddhists also ask much the same questions in their development. Buddhism is focussed on love, especially at the more advanced levels, where I see a parallel to your reference to the false teachers, gurus etc. For Buddhists, life doesn't work because we are attached to things that don't work, like contingencies to satisfy before we love. To give the ego a rest thus means releasing our attachments. Subtle, but at the same time, obvious.

d

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PhoenixRa
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Re: Are there 2 main expressions of Love, yet with
Reply #12 - Jan 10th, 2006 at 10:02pm
 
  Hi Kathy,

You're probably right.   Well, either way, i don't separate the human from the afterlife...seems to me to be all connected.


  Hi Recoverer,

  Yup completely agree, besides i'm not just talking about what Gayle referred to as 'hard' love, i'm more talking about the 'polarization' between these expressions due to a polarization within a person, or within a group such as this.

   Or, is there even such a thing?  Thats what i was more interested in hearing about, but i agree about the above, its a matter of detachment or attachment.

Thanks again for the responses.  Still nothing conclusive.  Probably am not asking the right questions.

Peace y'all
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Gayle ak PositiveLightHalo
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expressions of Love
Reply #13 - Jan 11th, 2006 at 5:30am
 
I find this topic extremely interesting.

Dave, I would so much love to hear more about your past lives and what you learned from them. If you feel like talking about this, you can PM me about this.

I don't believe there is a soft love or a hard love, because love is always the expression of a unity and therefore it is complete and every aspect is bound to another.

I think love is only expressed in different ways. I think we categorize as softer a socially-seen-feminine-side and harder as a socially-seen-masculine-side. I believe this is only a human, social and historically-momentary point of view. Also difficult to express the many nuances of loves through categorizing words.

I think love is larger than this life. I think love is larger than what the human condition (often) knows presently.

Kisses,

from Gayle
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