I give, i give, UNCLE UNCLE!!!

  Ok, let me rephrase what i said earlier, E.C. was not the first "real channeler" by any means.

  I was speaking more in the modern and very well known sense.

  Both Roberts and Cayce are widely known by many...  lol i guess you could say that amongst the New age, metaphysical world, they are "house hold" names.

  I've studied and read some Steiner and Blavatsky, and some of the older stuff, but except for Swedonburg, and perhaps Steiner and a few others like Eileen Garret, a lot of these are not talked about all that much anymore.

  A lot of people i've talked to haven't heard of the book Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ by Levi which is a book supposedly transcribed from the Akashic records about Jesus's life, death, and ressurrection.  Personally, i love the book though i do think it contains some occasional psychic gaffes.

  There was even an E.C. reading about this book, and E.C. Source said that the author Levi did indeed have a life then, and read his own records, but seemed to hint that because Levi did not have full AtOneMent, there was psychic skewing of some of the info.   Meaning the closer you become to the Universal, or the White Light in your own frequencies, the more clear and accurate you can bring in info to the physical from many other dimensional awarenesses. 

  This is why i don't trust a lot of psychic and mediumistic sources, unless they seem to be of a Universally helpful, non materialistic, and very loving energy.   There is much "skewing" that is involved because of the energy "friction" like phenom which seems to happen when someone tapps into very fast vibrating, positively charged, expanded dimensions, and tries to bring that info into a very dense, and a bit negatively polarized dimension.

  If you would trust in the Source (beyond the main consideration of "verfications"), then study the life, the manner, the impelling motivations behind them to help ascertain whether or not they are the real deal.   

  This is why i am very drawn to Bruce Moen, and Rosiland McKknights info, as i just know on a very deep level that these two have done a lot of work on themselves and aligned with the Creative Forces in a more or less balanced manner, though Moen seems to have some of the difficulities that Cayce had had in physical discipline and treating his vehicle not too well.

Like Recoverer said in another post, when you read from these two, you get this feeling of the Love of God, and a knowinngess of this info more approaching the Universal...so in a sense, more "truthful".   

  I didn't get this strongly with Monroes first book, but with his latter two books definitely.   He by that point, seemed to have greatly expanded his Heart/Head understanding on many levels.

  Geesh, you guys/gals are sooo literal.

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Actually, Jane Roberts probably never was convinced that she was spiritually adding to people's lives.  She remained conflicted throughout her years channeling Seth, thinking on the one hand that it was really valuable information while at the same time always afraid that maybe it might be not only heresy but downright harmful for people to accept Seth's teachings.  Her great fear was that she might be leading people astray from the true spiritual path.

This probably stemmed from her Catholic upbringing, which she also struggled with, trying to leave it behind but never quite freeing herself from her belief in what she called her "sinful self."  I'm not very familiar with Edgar Cayce, but I think he saw the information he received as fitting within his understanding of Christianity.  (Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)  That would've been quite different from Jane Roberts' view, which was that the matarial she was sharing with the world was very critical of the Christian religion.

I think the pictures of Jane Roberts show more a person in anguish rather than sadness ~ both physical and mental anguish, since she suffered a lot physically during that time.  Each person has their own theory about Jane's illness and early death, and mine is that they stemmed from her inner conflict over whether Seth's teachings were a good thing or not, as well as her difficulty applying his teachings in her life.  I think that intellectually she thought they were right on, but that deep inside she continued to hold on to subconscious beliefs which kept her from truly accepting them.

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  Thats certainly possible Glen, and i don't know that much about her to really go in depth about it.  I can comment on Cayce and his life though. 

  Cayce was born and raised in the South, in the Bible thumping belt of the good ole boy region.  People then and there on average were extremely backwards, biblical literalists, and many were extremely racially prejudiced. 

  Cayce had a strong relationship to his black brothers and sisters from an early age, and young (10 year old?)  Cayce was turned onto the Bible after hearing a slightly crazy black man boast he was as strong as Samson while cutting some wood.  The man told him all about Samson, and his heroic feats and told him this was all in the Bible. 

   Cayce started to read the Bible all the time, and soon became as versed in it as many pastors, in a few years.  At one point, he decided to read it once through each year. 

   He was unfamiliar with concepts of reincarnation, though it appears he was exposed to some awareness of astrology (at some point before his readings went into this) and psychic perception (from an early age).  Apparently his grandfather was quite psychic, as well as having the ability to move objects with his mind, and was rumoured to having made some broom handles dance.   

   Cayce was quite the bible thumper with strong xianistic belief system.   

  He had given health readings for many years, but always questioned himself and was always worried that he would cause harm to someone...  When giving medical readings, the chances of causing harm very quickly and directly is much greater than talking about philosophies as Roberts did.   Many years later, he finally fully trusted the Readings when giving readings for his own dying wife (she had T.B. and was generally very weakened in body)

   Before this he met a man named Authur Lammers who was very interested in Eastern teachings, and had researched many out of the box belief systems like astrology, reincarnation, etc.   Lammers was also a business man, but his burning questions of the destiny of the Soul, the role of astrology, and if man is born again, was much more important to him.  He also had received some health readings or knew others who had, so he quite believed in Cayce's abilitity to get info from outside of himself.

  He propositioned Cayce to try to give readings on these deeper questions.   Cayce bucked, and being a stubborn man who thought all the answers could be found in the "Holy book", didn't see Lammers reasoning right away. 

  But Lammers was persistent, and Cayce having had many unusual experiences, and being quite curious (and more than a bit eccentric in some respects), finally gave in, and the first spiritual life reading was born, and the Source made references to the validity of astrology, and to Lammers having 3 strongly influencing lives, particularly one as a monk, and this lifetime dynamic was partly why he had such intense spiritual questions.

  Cayce was a bit unglued by all this, and didn't want to continue at first.   Astrology, and especially Reincarnation went against his most fundamental traditionally Christian beliefs.

   But Lammers talked to him, and pointed out parts of the Bible which seemed to be references to Karma and reincarnation.   Cayce considered it oft, and it seemed to logically answer some questions which had perplexed him, particularly how unjust life seemed and why would God make some intensely suffer, but not others?

  So he decided to try it, and if it had "good fruits" he would try to trust the Readings.   And consistently he was shown how much he helped people physically, and then later spiritually. 

  At great cost to him and his repuatation i might add, everywhere he went he was accused of being the Devil's tool, was kicked out of a church he long loved and served...

  And then the Doctors...  The bleepity bleep know it all doctors who tried to make his life a living hell, yet one Doctor, Dr. Ketchum used Cayce to treat his patients.  Ketchum ran into some heat being a "Yankee" and using a psychic to help him out.

  He was about to get disbarred from the medical association when he challenged many doctors in a large meeting on this "Cayce boy and damn Yankee", and Ketchum dramatically challenged them to give him their worst cases and he would put down a ton of money on a bet for any charity of their choosing if he lost, and Cayce didn't dramactically help their patients, if his advice was followed to the Tee. 

  They declined, cause they had heard of cases, of impossible cases where Cayce had helped tremendously and they were impressed by his dramaticism and conviction.   Yet at other times, Cayce agreed to be tested and payed a pretty heavy price in pain and humilation.

  And in one particular case the good doctors and one who was friendly with the Cayce's, almost killed Edgar, because Edgar had went into a deep trance and nobody could wake him, so they thought he was dying, and injected him with some powerful drugs to jumpstart his system.   And because his body was very cold, they put boiling hot bags on his feet, etc. and almost killed the man.   The one sensible doctor, Dr. John Blackburn got their when the worst damage was done and told them all to leave Cayce alone, and wait till Edgar woke up, so he could himself a reading.   

  Cayce finally woke up in agony, but was able to go under again to give himself some trance advice, and told them what to do, and to give some suggestions to remove the poisons they had injected from his system.   When Edgar came to many, many hours later, he was ok but his feet were burned, and in general he was in pretty bad shape.

   Then he said no more testings, especially not by doctors, as in another incident, during his "trance" they pulled away his left pinky nail which led to some minor deformity later on cause it didn't heal right. 

  But i digress...there was great conflict and stress in him about the validity and helpfullness of his readings, but time and time again, despite all the testing, humilation and downright SCORN from many, he saw it concretely help those in need whether physically, emotionally/mentally, and spiritually. 

  He eventually came to trust them implicity, and believed in many of the then very taboo ideas like reincarnation, astrolgoy, and psychic development.   Cayce also often performed Retrievals consciously as in some periods (especially the latter period) of his life, he was so attuned as to both clearly see and hear stuck souls. 

  He had a lot of opposition from many on these spiritual life readings.   When he first started doing them, he avoided giving himself a life reading but decided it was ok to give his family members one.  When his son returned for Christmas, he gave him his reading as a present.

  Hugh Lynn read it, and saw the word reincarnation (had no idea what it meant) and then read that he had been the Disciple Andrew, and he became disgusted and enraged by this, and argued with his father (they had a very complex and tense relationship) and told him never to do these readings again.

  Eventually, Hugh Lynn became one of the most foremost experts on the spiritual aspects of the Readings, and being not inconsiderable psychic himself, had some experiences like some OBE's.  Yet, he couldn't hold a candle to his fathers abilities.

  Cayce died at 67 i believe, which considering he was born 1877, wasn't too young, but his own readings told him he could live to 120 if he kept his vehicle in shape.

   He didn't and constantly ignored the health advice and basically was called pig headed by his source a few times.   

  When he started to become sick a year before his death, it was full blown World War II and he was getting many, many, many requests for Readings, particuarly from worried parents who wanted to know if there sons were ok, etc.

  Cayce felt he couldn't refuse though his own source said he would become physically weakened by giving anymore than 2 readings a day, and Cayce continued pushing the envelope and gave more and more readings.   

   At one point, he was very strongly chastised by the Source and it said, "Even the Master rested when weakened by so many healings.  Are ye greater than He?" 

  It seems that at first, this overworking was "noble", but really the problem was that Cayce couldn't detach enough from his human emotional self, and felt such responsibility even though that is an illusion.   It seems also that maybe he wanted to die, and just felt too tired in life to do this for much longer.   There had been periods in his life, were he was very depressed and wanted to die, and though now he had reached a centered calm and joy, he was just very tired.   

  Basically he died because there was still too much selfishness within, not enough physical/dietary discipline, and he misunderstood the nature of service in some respects.   He was a very extreme personality, and any that was very close to him, noted his extremism and eccentricity. 

  His own life reading said that from his other life influences he was one "who is often contradictory often in speech and action" and who had little moderation.  Yet he was basically a service soul and the Source said that everyone who came in contact with this old soul could benefit by their association with him, and "Hence there may be much given as respecting this activity of this PARTICULAR entity and ITS associations throughout the eons of time, as called,
or throughout the varied and divers EXPERIENCES OF the entity  in the earth's experiences, and its ability to attune itself to either material, mental, or spiritual forces of others, or as to what it has the more often chosen as its standard of the measurements gives that expression to the information given."

  The standard being PUL and the influences being how often and much this Disk kept to this standard in its overall patterns, and this was why he was such an unusual and accurate channel, though the personality *Edgar* sometimes left much to be desired from a balance and moderation perspective.

  I don't think what Roberts went through, and her inner conflicts compare to the very extreme life and testings of E.C.   I sincerely doubt there was anymore conflict within her about her Christian upbringing than in Cayce, since the times and location of the environ must be considered. 

  The fact that she doubted perhaps just means she was sincere, and i don't doubt that consciously she was sincere.  But that doesn't mean much in and of itself, and doesn't speak much for the info beyond the obvious that she wasn't just trying to make money.

   There are a lot of "ego traps" in being a Channel and Roberts was a channel in a time and clime much, much more open to this kind of thing than Cayce.   Cayce often rued this peculiar job, until much later in his life, and was made to feel like a freak at best, or Satans tool at worst by many.

  Pretty much the only people who supported him, were close family members and those who had been directly helped by (usually medically first, then spiritually after) or was close to someone who had been directly helped by these strange 'psychic readings'. 

  Many thought him a modern day prophet of God, and he constantly had to keep his ego and peepee in check, since he was tempted by more than a few beautiful young woman, who thought by knowing and hopefully by being with him, they might help him or have a 'special' baby (or some ridiculous thing like that). 

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Phoenix
ok, that is very distorted.  Maybe this galactic core thing your talking about is what scientists call a big bang,only non-physically...anyway, i dont think i understand what your talking about now.

  These "match" up with our Sun's aligment to the Galactic plane ecliptic, and thats what the whole "hoopla" about 2012 is all about, this alignment.   Yet, its not so black and white, and this merging originally began in 98' really, this is also "matching" up with the smaller astrological cycle of us moving in the Aquarian age.  Many very large and smaller cycles/hands are all meeting at the same point around here, which is why this time/space cycle has had so much attention from the various prophets and indigenous peoples, and belief systems of the world.   It is an amazing opportunity this time/space to really actualize that Oneness, Pure White Light energy--in many systems, and other Galactic Cores are becoming active and co-resonating with ours, i believe.

Btw, since having that dream, and hearing Recoverer's experiences, i feel very, very impelled to get this stuff out, and to criticize what my guides are calling false spiritual teachings.

  I feel...a great urgency of late?  Probably the best way to describe it....

  Raz wrote, Quote:


 As i understand it, Cayce didn't say anything major would happen right in 98', but rather he outlined trends and noted 98's as an important marking date, and really noticable beginning age of Aquarius.

 Somebody asked about cataclysmic stuff happening at that point, and his Source emphatically said, no this will still be a gradual change within the Earth at this point.

 He mentioned "entrance of the Messiah" in that year, but nobody seems to know what that means, but at other points seems to indicate that the Christ Consciousness would start to become manifest around this time, and that some Initiates would start to understand the full nature of the Changes and what they mean.   Bruce's experience very much fits this bill at this time, and i'm sure Cayce's Source was looking at Bruce's life and influence in this "drama".  

 An awakening first beinginning with individuals, then to groups of people, and then eventually to the masses.  He didn't give a time frame for this, except to mention the thousand years of peace as mentioned in biblical prophecies.  

 On a personal front, 98' was a year of deep spiritual transformation for me, as well as a very 'testing' year.

 I had a very intense dream about the Great Pyramid in this year, which seemed to be an initiation dream.  The Great Pyramid has long, much longer than mainstream thought, played the role of Initiation center for those reaching the awareness of the Oneness of all Force.

 I really started to awaken in that year in general, and got some interesting info from various sources like other sensitives, dream guidance, and "conincindences" about the nature of  some of my soul/Disk "history".

 I've talked to others which mentioned that this time was a very transformational time for them as well.  Well, really 98/99 as it lapps over a bit.

 In another thread, i mentioned how two scientists noticed an odd increasing in the bulge of the Earth at the equator, and i believe 98's was the warmest, or one of the global years to date.

  One peculiar and specific prophecy was made about this year or 'period' by Cayce's Sources actually about Cayce himself, and in a reading about Ra Tah (a graduate within E.C's Disk), Cayce's Source said that this (spiritual) Priest must come again in 98' or in that period.  

 This personality would potentially develop itself to the point of being what the readings refer to as a liberator, (talking about those involved in the building of the Great Pyramid, and this great, world influencing culture) "Is it not fitting, then that these must return?  as this priest may develop himself to be in that position, to be in the capacity of a liberator of the world in its relationships to individuals in those periods to come; for he must enter again at that period, or in 1998..." rdg. 294--151

 I've never been completely sure what this reading is fully referring too, but liberator means "somebody who liberates others: somebody who sets others free"

 To liberate, to "free" others, one must free and liberate oneself, so it could potentially mean that this personality will reach full completion in this "next" life and be able to materially "prove" it, and will do so as a world teacher type?

 Other than that, not much else was going on in 98' to my knowledge.

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 Hmmm, i would suggest you don't understand the full holistic nature of the changes, and that you place too much human value judgment on "destruction".    

 Cayce's Source indicated a time of changes on ALL levels, socially, geologically, spiritually/energetically, etc.

 What is physicality?  Especially in relation to Soul, and Consciousness?   You have to really grasp that first before you can holistically understand what the changes mean on other levels as well.

 To put into metaphorical terms, the Earth is like a pregnant woman who is about to birth a baby.   Is there physical pain involved?   You betch'ya, but its well worth it.

 Looking at it from a very expanded and less human view point, "Love" energy is the most destructive energy there is, in a sense....especially this super impersonal, All powerful White Light energy which is flooding our Crystal Core, and ever increasing in waves of intensity.

 What is physicality based on?  Duality and darkness vs light, right?   What does Love "destroy"?   Darkness and duality.  What is our entire society mostly based on?  Fear and selfishness and all manifestations of selfishness like greed, power hunger, and other things which are so prevalent in this world...

 As Bruce's guides talk about, the 'collaspe' will happen because of the sheer amount of greed in the world.

 But thats just economically and socially.  What about the physical changes.

 In my belief system, physical energies are slower vibrating, denser, and negatively polarized (with both positive and negative charges) versions of the faster vibrating and positively charged energies of Consciousness and Soul...

 Physicality is kind of a muddied reflection of Soul energy.  It is the image of the hologram, whereas Consciousness is the Light which illumines and makes possible the image...

 What happens if the light changes?  The image must change too.

 Consciousness is changing right now, there is rapid spiritual awareness growing, and ever more contrasting with the darkness and the "old ways" which need to die for this awakening to fully manifest.

 When Consciousness changes, so must the physical correspondingly.

 Hence Cayces emphatic statments to the changes which must take place within the Earth.   There is plenty of evidence for "prior" catastrophic crustal shifts geologically within the Earth.

 Yet even so, Cayce's Source said that individuals and groups could by their metaphysical activity (aliging with the Creative Forces or PUL) alter and lesson the effects of localized destructions...

 Basically the more loving a place is, the less stress and conflict, the less outer destruction will take place.

  When there is a prevalent focussed Will to benefit others, and caring more about the collective than self and selfish "needs", then there are emanated waves of harmony which affect Consciousness, which then affects the physical.

 The changes as a whole will and need to happen.  There just aren't enough people who care and who are awake in the world to keep it from going into a ever destructive and greed dominated cycle.

 Hence He/She's conversation with Bob Monroe....They also talked about the coming changes, and He/She said i can give you a glimpse of a plan which will help the world without involving socialism, communism, capitalism, or dicatorship, then Bob says, "they say it can't be done" He/She, "That is what makes it worth the effort. It needs unified worldwide human endeavor. This will happen through recognized necessity, not through religions, race, political beliefs, or force of arms." Bob responds "Necessity is severe stuff. The world would have to be in rough shape."

He/She, "That is the reason for waiting. The time will come."

 The time is fast approaching this, and we are going to go through a major wave fairly soon, as Recoverer, Jeff, i and others have been getting glimpses of recently.  

 If what we have seen, or sensed does happen in America, then this will very much speed up the geological changes.  

 Consider the numerological indications of this year 2006, this is a 8 vibration year.  

8 is a vibration indication/symbolism which can be related to the energy of Saturn, the tester of the planets.   Saturn and 8 vibrations, are never easy energies to deal with, if there is ego involved, and Saturn is akin to a purging Fire which burns out the dross (challenge, and testing to strengthen the Soul within) to get to the Gold underneath.

 Personally, right now, i'm under some very, very powerful Saturn transits, and there is no amplifying indication than having a Planet going over ones Ascendant degree.

 It is a great time of immense stress, testing, and need for fortitude.   I know Saturn and 8 energy well (my B-day is the 8th as well btw).  

I think this is going to be a very interesting year on many fronts geologically, socially, war-wise, economically, and governmentally, particularly intense and extreme in America.  

 America is really going to start reaping what it has sown for so long, starting around now.   She needs to grow up, and theres no better method in growing up, than some good ole fashion challenge eh?

 Most of the info and attitudes out there regarding the changes is powerful wishful thinking, as most are just too attached to the human emotional self, and material concerns of the body to consider otherwise.

 Fluffy Channeled material like Elias are doing a real disservice to people when they ignore and understate the physical and economic aspect of the changes, and tell everyone yeah its going to be a great and easy time, except for dealing with some inner emotional issues, attachments, etc.

 When the stronger waves are upon us, how will people cope effectively when they've told that nothing "bad" or extreme was going to happen?

 They won't cope very well on average, and at the very least, we should go by that well said statement, be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.   Not in a fear filled manner, but in a knowing that if you follow your guidance, you'll be ok, and there really is no such thing as harm cause you're not a body, but an Essence.

 If people really believed they were Essences, then why do so many seem to want to believe that extreme, life changing, and civilization, physical and economic changes won't happen?

 What does it matter?  

 On another front, the Great Pyramid in encoded world history and prophecy in stone, all in the symbolic and Universal language of math and number symbolisms.

 In one of the major indications, which is 2004 ( there is a plus or minus 3 years leeway on most dates in the Pyramid, because of the small distances between), it indicates that "the bottom of the world will drop out."

 Meaning a collaspe of economy and civilization as we know will begin around this 3 year plus or minus 2004 date.

 Again, looking to the numerological, the 2006 seems to be the beginning of the challenging times materially, yet great times spiritually to get ever more intune and to speed up one's inner vibratory rate, and harmonize the various energy bodies.

 This will be done in many ways, with some even through physical aids, but mostly emtionally and karmic clearing, which allows for more Light to be taken in.  

 I believe this is part of the reason why my Total Self is putting me through so much stress and testing now, so that when things start to get tough, i will already have just gotten out of dealing with very rought times, and be ready for whatever is thrown my way.

 I know others going through a similar process now, where things are seeming to be karmically more intense, with challenge from various aspects of life.

 All in all, from a more expanded and less dualistic viewpoint, these changes are to be greatly desired by those who care more for spiritual reality.
 
 Am just trying to help prepare others a bit, and logically outline some things seemingly not well understood.

Peace