Marta,

You are coming accross like a religious convert. That's not at all a rejection of you or the points you are trying to make, but it would help if you took a step back first.


Rob

Hi Matthew,

First you are the one who posted a sarcastic comment about Elias, and here is the definition about sarcasm (Cambridge Dictionary)

“Comments which are made in order to hurt someone's feelings or to criticize something in an amusing way
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit/humour. SAYING
said to mean that sarcasm is very unkind”

Your sarcastic comment was very intentionally and UNKIND towards the people that resonate with that information.

I TOTALLY agree that you as any other individual will resonate or not with any of the information they come in contact with, and it will be their CHOICE and according to their awareness, but your sarcastic comment was NOT a mature/loving, and accepting towards others understandings, preferences and choices.

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Oh, but you did, I just answered according to YOUR own words, to say that I called Elias ignorant because the aspect of Oscar Wilde was sarcastic, well I say it again…that shows NO understanding of the Seth material.
My answer to you was based in your comment, you expressed that I was calling Elias ignorant, implicity YOU called me ignorant with that remark, implying I have no understanding about what aspects, focuses, and essences are.

From Seth:

“The Soul (essence) can be described for that matter as a multidimensional, infinite ACT (action), each minute probability being brought somewhere into actuality and existence; and infinite creative act (action) that creates for itself infinite dimensions in which fulfillment is possible.” Seth Speaks, chapter 6.

“You think of entities (essences) as particles (THINGS), for example, rather than as *waves of energy*, aware and alert, or as patterns”

“Progress has nothing to do with time, you see but with psychic and spiritual focus. Each play (life) is entirely different from any other. It is not correct therefore to suppose that your actions in this life are caused by previous existences, or that you are being punished in this life for crimes in a past one. The lives are SIMULTANEOUS.”

All lives (focuses) are SIMULTANEOUS, and each life (focus) will express  OBJECTIVELY many different aspects, the expressions of those aspects will be colored by the OBJECTIVE perception and beliefs that each manifested focus holds.
Just because in one life (focus) we express OBJECTIVELY ignorance, sarcasm, hate, or any other emotion due to our beliefs, and lack of objective understanding, it doesn’t mean that the essence holds those emotions too. 

My remarks were EXCLUSIVELY about the understanding of the Seth and Elias material, if you hold a Doctoral degree, I do too, I hold a Doctoral degree in Architecture, a Master Degree in Music, and a Conservatory degree in Piano Performance.

I do not HOLD anger towards anyone, but I do express myself whenever I choose to, and always speak from the knowing of my own experiences, understandings and preferences.

I don’t know about your experiences. I had MANY experiences in projection of my consciousness, and I had done many retrievals as well (with verifications), but I’m only posting my inner experiences when I used the conceptualization inner sense, that brought me my knowing and understanding about what I’m.

About TRUTH, TRUE, KNOWLEDGE and AWARENESS:

This experience occurred when I was trying to discern about Truth and True, I really don’t know how to explain it, it was like perceiving my objective perception subjectively, I became aware of the entirety as a whole of my thinking process, and how ALL my thoughts are always affected by beliefs and a translation and how the thinking process mechanism is in itself physical and creates separation. Then I confronted myself with what I thought I KNEW.
I never had before an experience like that, as I felt a total emptiness, when I had the realization that I KNOW NOTHING. 

For more than three days I was in total emptiness, facing myself with a total absence of knowing what I knew, and there was nothing else than EMPTINESS, is very hard even to express a word that can relate to what I felt.

I had the realization that no matters of what I think, always my thoughts will be an interpretation of a belief  I may hold in my perception, that my objective perception always will be affected by my beliefs, and that it matters not what I believe, they are not KNOWINGS. And I realized that they are no TRUTHS, that whatever I believe or I understand will be my interpretation of something that holds true in my perception, experience and awareness, but it will be only true to myself, and is not a TRUTH.

I realized that the same applies to any other individual; I understood what acceptance is,
I accepted in myself first, that I hold no TRUTHS, that in reality there is NO TRUTH related to individual experiences, that we each hold a different perception and understanding, and that each of us will experience according to that, and will be true in our individual experience, but not a TRUTH.

Then, I became aware of the differences between TRUTH, TRUE and KNOWINGS.
I see now that there is NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH to find out, but that I hold according to my perception, awareness and beliefs what is true only to myself, based in my experiences and intent, and being aware of that is a KNOWING.
KNOWING is not about absolute TRUTHS, is about awareness.

After that experience of emptiness, I was feeling like in an ended road, in which I didn’t see how I could know if I have any knowledge which is not affected by beliefs.
I felt like there should be a knowledge that is NOT affected by beliefs that must be in my understanding like more truthful, still thinking as there is an undistorted knowledge which has to be more truthful and not subject to objective perception thus to interpretations and affected by beliefs.
I was trying to understand what IS knowledge, thinking that as long I was physically focused I was unable to have any knowledge, and then I had this sudden understanding about what knowledge truly is. Knowledge IS awareness, when I become aware of something then becomes a KNOWING and that will be MY knowledge. Knowledge is not about a neat package of truths, widening our awareness means widening our knowledge. There is NO ABSOULTE KNOWLEDGE.
Also I understood that as long I hold objective perception my awareness or knowledge will be subject to distortion, also I understood that there is no end to knowledge as there is no end to awareness.

ABOUT REMEMBRANCE OF ESSENCE:

I had an experience that I only can describe as an expansion of awareness. I think it was Remembrance, and the experience was like a merging of my subjective and objective awareness.

I became aware of how this focus of attention has been throughout its entire manifestation in constant connection with the other focuses of my essence, how my interests intersect with the interests of my other focuses, how many sudden interests and understandings have been because this interconnection. I became aware, that even that this focus in his perception is unique and individual, I’m much more than this, how in reality I’m essence, all the aspects of essence are NO separated from me, the other focuses are themselves unique as I’m, but I’m them as they are ME, that my focus of attention HERE couldn’t be what it is without ALL the other aspects of the entirety of my essence, and this awareness expanded to all dimensions and areas of consciousness.
Then, as I was having this expansion of awareness, I had the awareness that it was the same among essences, that there is NO separation among essences as there is NO separation among all the aspects of my essence. I truly became aware of the incredible interconnection of ALL consciousness, without in any moment loosing my individuality.
I have been connecting with many other focuses, but it wasn’t until this moment that I truly FELT this connection, I SAW how those aspects of my essence have been connected with me during the entirety of my life, I’m what I’m in this focus because all of them, and IS our essence, there is NO separation. I truly became aware of that, no like an intellectual concept, it has become part of my awareness.
Also I became aware of something that is very hard to express in words....but I will try.....I became aware that all those aspects of essence are not really like belonging to one focus and then the other aspect to another focus..........NO.....those aspects are qualities, intents, and propensities....like energy characteristics of my essence.....and we ...all the focuses manifested.......manifest some of  those aspects like from a pool of energy qualities of essence constantly......... we interchange constantly those aspects....... is hard to express.......the essence IS this pool of energy containing ALL those aspects............ the focus is like a point, a focus of perception.......in which manifests any of the aspects from essence by choice but the experience, perception of the focus is unique and individual, as well his awareness. Also I understood that the experiences of the focuses enrich the essence with the addition of more new aspects too, created by the focuses. Is very hard for me to express, I just can say that I became aware of the entirety of essence and the individual expressions of the essence as ONE.

ABOUT THIS FOCUS of ATTENTION (life):

I had another experience, that as in my previous one about Remembrance, in which I became aware of my essence, in this one I became aware of the entirety of the selves of my present focus.

First I became aware of how all the moments of my present focus, past or future in my terms, are existing in the NOW, and how there is a constant affect ness between, how me in this moment I’m affecting another past moments in my terms of myself, as I’m affected now by myself moments in my terms of what is my future.
Then I saw also how those countless expressions of Marta, past present and future, are ALL in the NOW, and how many, many other selves are splitting from those in more probable and parallel selves, which themselves split again in more selves. I was in TOTAL amaze in seeing the countless selves that just from this focus of attention are created and manifested, how there is affect ness between ALL of them, and still I felt myself as MYSELF, my own individual SELF-AWARENESS, as unique, and I knew that all those other selves hold the same individual SELF-AWARENESS and uniqueness.

Then I realized that a focus of attention from essence, can and has countless points of SELF-AWARENESS, then it hit me in my understanding, that that is what essence is, an infinite gestalt of consciousness which are SELF-AWARE, and aligns with a tone, the TONE (personality which hold intents through many aspects) of the essence.
I became aware of the ME, the self-awareness that I recognize as MYSELF, as a point of attention of this gestalt of consciousness, which is my essence, and as manifested in this dimension, I perceive events linearly by choice, that my consciousness is constantly blinking inn and out from this dimension. When my consciousness is directed objectively out of this blinking, I’m aware of this Marta that I call MYSELF, when my consciousness is directed subjectively inn of this blinking, I’m aware of being the entirety of my essence as being MYSELF.
As Marta, I create line of events that I chose to recognize as my past, but then I realized that other points of self-awareness of this focus of attention (the other ME, Marta) chose to recognize other lines of events as their past, or we may chose some events and others don’t.

What I understood, is that THIS focus of attention, which I call Marta, has endless points of attention, all self-aware as I’m of myself, and all are experiencing ALL the possibilities of the INTENT of this focus of attention in countless dimensions. This focus of attention is NOT one single line of events, from past to future, MYSELF I chose one line of events, but there are many other Marta’s choosing other lines of events.

Then I became aware of the same incredible countless selves in each other focus of attention of my essence, and how each is SELF-AWARE of itself and holds INDIVIDUALITY.
.
SIMULTANEOUS TIME and SPACE.

I had an inner experience, in which I think I used the conceptualization inner sense.
It began, when I was imagining was has become part of my awareness, by imagining what a focus is with all the countless selves, alternates, probable and parallel, then expanded to all the focuses of essence and aspects, then beyond that in all essences and all consciousness. 

As I was imagining all this, suddenly I became aware of what simultaneous time is, about how there is NO space as locality, but there is something that I can’t describe in words, and is the existence of ALL consciousness in which LOCALITY has no meaning, it takes NO space and at the same time is boundless. Then I became aware that in reality there is not simultaneous time, is more like NO-TIME, in which all possible manifestations of time are manifested in the NOW.

I became aware, and understood subjectively what in my terms I call simultaneous time, in which there is duration, but that duration is not what we understand of duration, is more like intensity.
I understood that this intensity is about how consciousness expresses itself and chooses to focus for experience, that it can be felt and perceived differently in intensity.
I understood the paradox of everything existing at once, and at the same time everything being in state of becoming. I saw how all the possibilities and probabilities of creation exists at once as POTENTIALS and in the same time are constantly created (manifested and experienced) in the NOW.
In my terms, I understood how there are NO beginnings and endings, NOTHING has began and NOTHING has ended.
Is very difficult to express in words, what I understood, the only thing I can express is that I became aware of ALL consciousness existing at once in the NOW, and at the same time being in constant state of becoming.
I feel totally unable to express in words or language what subjectively I understood and saw so clearly.
It was a conceptualization experience, and is very hard for me to express it, I had mental images without images, I felt the movement of consciousness in the NO-TIME, without movement at all, I can’t even say it without sounding illogical.

I understood how TIME is a reality by itself, but that is not absolute, and that can be experienced in infinite ways in the NOW, that the same thing as LOCALITY has no meaning in this something in which all consciousness has it’s existence, past, present and future has no meaning in this constant NOW.
Time is a dimension in itself, in which matter is manifested through perception in countless dimensions and expressions of time.


ABOUT ESSENCES and different AREAS (frameworks) of CONSCIOUSNESS:

I had a conceptualization experience that is very hard for me to translate in words, as I feel is almost impossible to explain it without sounding illogical and paradoxical. I understood the paradox of according to which area of awareness we are focused in essence, it can be said that our essence is not focused physically, or has not fragmented. I experienced what I only can define as a infinite nested holonic expression, wholes within wholes within wholes, metaphorically is like the Russian dolls, all are nested, but each doll is like one area of awareness that has countless attentions and actions, the next doll will enclose this area but incorporates different actions and focuses, and it goes like that in my interpretation to infinite, there is no end to essence, is not an enclosed system, and has no boundaries, but incorporates defined areas of action or awareness, and no area is greater or more evolved that any other, just different actions of consciousness expressing itself.
I understood in my experience how there is no limit about which areas essences occupy, that in reality essences occupy ALL areas of consciousness, ANY essence, the vastness of essence is truly unlimited.

ABOUT EXPERIENCE:

The other day I was thinking that my essence occupies all areas of consciousness, then I tried to connect with a focus of my essence in Area 4, when suddenly I had this understanding, there are no individual focuses of attention as we understand that term in Area 4, because there is no separation among all the aspects of essence or objectivity in area 4.
Now, essences focused in Area 4, are also are experiencing, then I had this understanding about EXPERIENCE.

There is no separation between the experience and the experiencer, I mean there is no an experiencer having an experience.
Essences/consciousness are not things, but action, then action IS the experience itself, and the experience is knowledge which is awareness.
As physically manifested we create this separation/division, is our objective perception which creates the separation between experience and the experiencer, we see ourselves as entities, we think of ourselves as things, and then that thing has an experience.
But in reality we are the experience, we can’t separate ourselves from the experience.

Then is my understanding that in Area 4 there is only action which is experience, as it is in this dimension too, or in any other area of consciousness, but in Area 4 there is the awareness of NO separation, in reality there are no entities/things having experiences, and because we objectify the term Focus, is that I realized that there is no Focuses in Area 4 as we understand that term objectively.

Then, when I express myself I do it from my OWN knowing, not from what I read or from what someone else said, and I only can speak from myself, from what has become my awareness and my understandings.

I very seldom post in this board today, I’m an old member, and used to post very frequently, sharing MY experiences, but I do express myself whenever I choose, and as I said, I hold NO anger towards any individual in my life, not in this board, not in my other relashionships, simply put, anger is an emotion that I don't experience anymore.


LOVE
Marta

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Marta,
You sound angry. but yea..... maybe its the use of capitalizing words. people think your shouting in their heads.  or you could put a smiley face after every two paragraphs... that may alleviate the perception of anger....lol

ive been to alot of forums, and i think this is the first one that doest have the smiley devil emoticon.
*shrugs*

and ive never seen such a reaction to sarcasm. i didnt even know there was such negative connotations in the definition of sarcasm, i was quite surprised to read that definition.

and just this morning a saw a preview for a movie coming out based on an oscar wilde story. a comedy, full of sarcasm.... cant recall the name.

I know the focus of wilde is of the essence of elias. but i dont see the relevence entirely that s being discussed?
The channelled essence of elias is not neccesarily oscar wilde's focus being channeled...correct?...

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How come interacting with Marta and reading her posts almost 2 years now, you  never had the impression that she angry with anyone? You know her and her style well enough to know that instead of underline she uses CAPITAL LETTERS when she try to get her point come a cross clearly, and that have nothing to do with anger...and hardly use any smiley....

Is anything wrong with that? I don't believe she need insturction what and how to post do you?
Others perceptions of her or her posts not really her concern!

Doc

My post to Raz has absolutely nothing to do with your post I don't even want to go there...

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LOL!!!
do i need instruction from you on how to perceive marta's posts?
Why is it that if others perceptions of her posts are not her concern, their your concern?!
Im sorry, but marta sounded angry, and im not the only one who noticed that.

[Matthew:] "Holmes in his difficult but good book "Science of Mind," talks of creating healing by seeing the sick person as perfect spirit, and denying the disease "since the person's spirit is truly perfect, disease is not permitted."  The patient and healer must both believe and see the ill patient as perfect and healed.  Multiple treatments are needed."

In my view, Holmes's belief that "the person's spirit is truly perfect" is an implausible red herring that is not vital to the healing process.  The important point is to visualize or imagine the sick person as if he were already healed.  In this sense, Holmes's point is probably based on the neglected teaching of Jesus in Mark 11:24:

"I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE [already] RECEIVED THEM, and they will be granted."

How can you believe that the sick person is already healed when the former symptoms remain present?   By holy perception!   You meditate on the picture of how that person might feel and appear if he were totally cured.  Instead, of trying to believe in that picture, you simply take increasing pleasure in it.  

I might add that modern translations often obscure this point by mistranslating "have [already] received" in the future tense "will receive" and thus effectively nullifying the vital role of healing imagination in Jesus' teaching.  Of course, this is just one of His many healing principles.  

Some will recognize the similarity between this teaching and ACIM.   But you don't need to add the belief that the illness is in fact an illusion. Just treat it in your "holy' imagination AS IF it has vanished.

Some may recall my post on a medical acquaintance's healing visit to Paradise during an NDE.  Dr. Phyllis was taken by two men in white up "an elevator that was not really an elevator" because it was an elevator of white light.   She was taken to a Healing Center in Paradise where some sort or "surgical procedure" was oerformed on her astral body which she could not understand.   When she returned to her body in the hospital, she was healed and no longer needed the life-saving surgery for her terminal illness.  Contrary to Holmes, Phyllis's healing suggests that her astral body was damaged in some way, but that its healing triggered her physical healing as well.

Don

P.S.  Your Oscar Wilde response was brilliant!  

[Matthew:] "Where you and I disagree, possibly is the notion that we must appeal to an outside divine source.  I believe that we are given all the tools we need to create our reality (within the bounds of certain physical laws).  I believe that using this power selfishly will cause an imbalance in other areas; one may acquire wealth but be bereft of love or happiness.  So I feel that right action, love and good will are an integral part of using positive thought to shape one's own world."  
______________________________

Yes, this is where we differ.  It is an important disagreement that is well worth researching.  It is not helped by the distinction between a New Age concept of God ("God is All That Is") and a Christian concept ("God is the ground of Being who is personal in the sense that His essence is love.").   This distinction is too abstract to make the decisive difference for the power of creation through prayer.
Depressed Christians will sometimes complain, "I feel like my prayers just bounce off the ceiling."  Such complaints imply that prayers are like radio waves that must travel to an external destination.   Yet when reminded that an omnipresent God is not an "outside divine source,"  they will smile and admit that they were reacting emotionally.  

If God is the ground of our being, What is the practical difference between claiming God answers my prayers and claiming I myself create my own reality?  In a word, ego!   The Bible teaches many principles of effective prayer, but also draws attention to principles like ego that sabotage prayer.   In my experience and investigation, most really astounding miracles are responses to the faith of "nobodys" with a desperate need.   They typically keep their miracles private, so that the investigator must normally stumble across them.   The miracle claims of big-name TV faith healers often don't bear up well under close scrutiny.  

Why not?   These men typically started out as humble young seekers whom God blessed on a few occasions with miraculous answers to prayer.  Then two bad things happened.   First, they began to say to themselves, "Hey, I'm pretty good at this.  I must have a gift."   Then an egotistical concern for reputation gradually undermined the quality of loving faith that gave them their initial miracles.   Second, reputation creates pressure ro manifest continued success.   But the Holy Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip.   Pressure to produce more miracles creates a need to rationalize by assuming that rumors of fresh miracles through their ministry must be true.  They are afraid to investigate because their credibility as faith healers is now at stake.

What does this have to do with your belief that we create our own reality, including miracles?   As a practical matter, if I take credit for MY miracles,  the well will very quickly run dry.   In my own life, insecurity about whether my prayers will produce a healing has been one of my biggest assets because it means that right now I will not even unconsciously imagine that I did it.  When I reflect on my "hot" streaks and "cold' spells, one factor stands out.   I am only effective if I experience a profound sense of grace that humbly recognizes that God deserves all the glory and that without
God I can do nothing.   I usually go into a long spiritual slump when well-meaning people tell me that I'm different from other ministers because I really understand faith principles.   Words like that function like a virus and, resist as I will, my prayers bocome ineffective for a long while.  It's as if my insecurity makes me want to believe that I deserve some credit or may have a spiritual gift.  

Studies should be devised that use two groups of patients with the same ailment.  One group should receive sustained prayer for healing addressed to God in Jesus' name.  The other group might be composed of Seth and Elias students who try to create healings for these patients solely on the basis of channeled creation principles.   I'm convinced that the prayer group would do much better, but that remains to be seen.  

Don