Don,

I should clarify a couple things about what I believe and how I view things.

I believe in PUL. I believe it is synonomous with God/All There Is. I also believe that fear contradicts Love.

I give a lot of weight to the reported experiences (collectively) of those who are graduates of the various programs given at The Monroe Insititute. This is because I believe that personal experience and a preponderance of the evidence outweigh any particular theology/belief system.  I also believe that any religion that teaches that fear is the beginning of knowledge is dead wrong and is in contradiction.
I do not spend time worshipping God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or venerating saints, all of which I believe are fear based practices.  I believe that practicing PUL is the absolutely the best thing a person can do. While I can hold two contradictory ideas in my head at the same time and still function, I cannot focus on PUL and hold fear at the same time. Because of this I find that ALL the Christian Churches/Eccesiastical organizations are problematic.

That is not the same thing as saying that religions are useless, wrong, or outdated. They have much to offer, even now. I respect them and borrow from them often. 

I like Thomas Merton because he understood/understands PUL. He was also a very lucid writer.  I also wonder if he understood a lot more than what he let on to in his books.

Anway, I don't know what you think of what I just wrote but there it is.

Bob

   Hey Spooky,

     Yeah, what were the other details? That they were collecting jokes here because it was a rare commodity elsewhere and "you don't know how precious something is when it don't exist nowhere else"

    Makes ya feel that a sense of humor, of play and fun, is something you DO take with you when you die, something that is uniquely human and of the utmost value in the after-life.

Dang! I'm sidetracking the thread! Lemme get it back on track...

A man walks into a bar, sits at a stool. Turning to look for the bartender, he notices a very strange thing. Sitting on the stool next to him is a man with a head the size of a baseball....

Tim:

First of all, thanks for your kind words in a PM.  As for aliens coming here just to collect jokes,  the key is that you realize most people would view this as a kooky claim just as I do.  What I take exception to is this: Monroe reports such events with no regard to how a normal person would react to them.  And what about his other "kooky" claims:
(2) his alleged past life as a prehistoric pilot flying a machine who must dodge the spears of angry cave men; (2) his alleged past life as a novitiate priest whose Catholic order demands that he ritually rape a young girl who just happens to be his wife Nancy in this life!  To me those claims are also "kooky."  But I respect anyone who is willing to come clean with their disagreement on this point.

Bob:

Time restraints only allow me to reply to one of your points: "...any religion that teaches that fear is the beginning of knowledge is dead wrong."

Two points:
(1) The Bible teaches, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge/ wisdom (Proverbs 1:7)."    
But the Hebrew term for "fear" means "reverential awe" in the face of divine presence and mystery, not "fear of punishment."  I was raised Pentecostal and often spoke in tongues in my youth.  In retrospect, only a couple of these experiences were unequivocally divinely inspired.  For example, when I was 16, I was losing my faith.  So I went to a Pentecostal camp meeting, where I was going to give God one last chance to make Himself real to me before renouncing Him.  The ecstatic manifestations I witnessed there all seemed phony and contrived.  I was determined not to succumb to wishful thinking and the power of suggestion.  

One day there I was so depressed that I fasted and put my meal money into the offering plate.  After the evening service, most people left the amphitheatre and I remained in a kneeling position at the altar with defiantly clenched fists.  I felt nothing but depression and seething skepticism.  

Then suddenly I felt a supernatural wind striking my back, despite an evening with no breezes.  I was forced against my will to speak in tongues at the top of my voice.   I experienced wave on wave of divine love of such increasing intensity that I felt real fear that I would die and my ego would be absorbed in the divine mind that was enveloping me.  But this fear was not fear of punishment; it was an astounding sense of awe that such a loving God really existed after all.  I have since read about similar fears of dying during comparable Christian ecstatic experiences.

After a few minutes, the empty amphitheatre began to draw people who sat and stared at me.  One stoic Lutheran pastor (a fish out of water there) approached me and said, "I've never really believed in this sort of thing, but it's obvious to me that God is blessing you in a unique way.  Would you please lay hands on me?"  When I laid hands on him, he immediately exploded in other tongues, deep in ecstasy.  I later asked one of the women  who reentered the building why she returned.  She replied, "I was drawn by the radiance in the darkness of your glowing face."  Fear can be bliss!

During the experience. God communicated with me not in conventional speech but in a rote (a ball of thought I was later able to unravel).   God told me that my theology was wrong in key ways.  God would not correct my misunderstandings.  Rather, I must seek His presence and truth by striving to identify and live the most vital questions.   This experience established the oourse of my life (an eventual doctorate in theology, etc.).  It also initiated a long series of paranormal gifts that I now experience to a lesser extent.  I often draw nourishment from the memory of this ecstasy when I'm enveloped in one of my major weaknesses--a penchant for deep-rooted skepticism.

(2) The Bible agrees with the common New Age claim that PUL and conventional fear are ultimately incompatible: "[True] Love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear.  If we are afraid, it is for fear of judgment, and this shows that His love has not been perfected in us (1 John 4:18)."  But surely you'd agree that fear has an important role to play for survival and the moral development of children and some nonreflective adults?  The point is that we must strive to eliminate our fears to embrace the highest form of love (Greek: "agape").

Don

Quote:


Tim F.,
you are serious?...you actually projected an audience who didnt get your comedy,? Even a little demon who was waiting for the punchline?
Any way, that seems like a fabricated obe experience. Its your projections at best. or another dumb joke?

Quote:


It was rob roy who wasnt responding to me no more, i thought.  Maybe your his clone.....

Dont get me wrong, I laugh whens somethings funny......im not gonna fake a laugh at you jokes, because they arent funny.  So ignore me and label me just as you would that little demon. Im merely standing here, observing your dumb jokes.

ahhh,keeping in line with the smooch fest that is this forum.
i thought there was a topic here, the 'testing of new age value terms.' Though no one allows to be tested or challenged in any way. So whats that result in?.... read rob roys last post.

ahhh,keeping in line with the smooch fest that is this forum.
i thought there was a topic here, the 'testing of new age value terms.' Though no one allows to be tested or challenged in any way. So whats that result in?.... read Tim F. 's last post