Kudos for Berserk? Ok, I'll bite.

I never doubted his commitment to his spirituality.

And I believe that he works so hard at his posts, because he sincerely wants to help.

I just don't agree with all of his viewpoints.

Who knows? Perhaps some day if he passes on before I do and sees things from the spirit World's perspective, I'll channel him.

Berserker,
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huh?

 And why cant you achieve pul in waking state?
lol
 for you to 'feel the love', merge with its quality.  
Listen,
You are love, it is not something you attain to. Its is a quality of your being already.

The translation of love in ordinary terms is acceptance, appreciation, and knowing. which are to me the 'conditions' of love ,which is why i disagree with pul or with its ordinary term of 'unconditional'.
Nor is it important to glamorize love with 'pure' and,
its equally misguided to think you are giving love to someone, or recieving love from someone.  Once again , you are love, already. So i challenge these new age beliefs about the understanding of love itself in those sytems.  Do they even know what love is?.
You are trying to achieve something with pul that you already possess, which is love. Its in your being already, its not 'higher in the astral plane' and only held by 'god' ,for christs sake! lol
So once again, to experience is to be in a state of aprreciation, acceptance, and knowing of...
I say of self, self love.  Aprpreciate, accept, and know yourself. That is the state of being in love you can experience and 'feel' for yourself

Don,

These "jailbreaks "do not invalidate the moral code.  They deal with free will, and conscious beings changing their belief systems.  If there are "vibrational states," these may change with changes in belief systems.  Thus, if a bible thumper goes to a "hollow heaven," but then sees inconsistencies in the existence there, and a retrieval helps him change his/her beliefs, then "poof," he is retrieved.  In reality, his consciousness has expanded and prior belief systems have been discarded.  

I also think its time someone took you on point for point on your attack of the Monroe/Moen doctrine.  I do not myself accept their definition of the afterlife and hollow heavens as certain by any means, however you should note the following:

1.  If I hear about Monroe's caveman episode, rape or meeting aliens collecting jokes again, I'll puke.  Those are obvious delusions or misinterpretations of astral events, but so what?  Many people have traveled to focus 27, and had shared experiences.  Thus, one must look at the man's entire research and work, not just point to the goofy instances and invalidate  the rest.  

2.  Bruce's imagination method does leave him open to criticism of what is real and what is imagined.  However, the creative power of the mind is real, and certain validations over time have been quite real.

3.  The people at TMI and Bruce encourage people to explore and come to their own conclusions of the nature of the afterlife, consciousness, and the meaning of our true nature.  That is a healthy and open way of engaging people, and leaves their definitions of focus states and other issues open to change as more and more people gather information.

All that being said, I am not sure why swedenberg and Monroe/Moen's views of the afterlife is different.  I would say that our conscious mind interprets whatever information is gleaned either in the astral or in focusing our minds.  I don't know that one model is better than the other.  Swedenberg's verifications are a bit bizzarre, such as telling a man he will die at 445 the next morning!!!   And it happened.

That smacks of the power of suggestion, foul play or a type of use of consciousness to a bad end.  While I am impressed with Swedenberg's verifications, there are things that transpired back then that we simply are not privy to.  

I admire your search for a source that is accurate and verified.  I think that the jury is still out as to what the afterlife is like.  I like Monroe's concept of a change in focus of our consciousness as it seems to me to fit with the notion that consciousness is a primary phenomenon.

Best to you,

Matthew

Yes, Marilyn, despite the fact that I've made and abandoned my Monroe critique long ago, Matthew tiresomely repeats this point again and again and even uses crude language {"puke") in an tasteless effort to bait me and provoke a response.  I guess it's time to reiterate unanswered aspects of my critique of Monroe's kookery, though I had not planned to revisit the matter.    

Monroe's first book was innovative and fascinating. It wisely resists the temptation to impose a narrow New Age straight jacket on his experiences.   His last two books are dreadfully written New Age propaganda, utterly bereft of critical discernment.   They suffer dramatically in comparison with the works of other OBE adepts such as Robert Bruce.  And I say this, despite the fact that I find some of RB's attitudes more offensive than anything written by Monroe.   RB simply has far superior critical skills, despite his eccentric use of shamanistic remedies for various astral problems.  RB's one book "Astral Dynamics" is far richer in intelligent insights than all 3 of Monroe's works.  Hmm, I need to ponder how I'm going to handle this issue this time.

Don

LOL OK Don, as long as I'm not going nuts.

Matthew, I enjoy your posts, wasn't making fun of you but I really felt it was deja vu.

Don, as far as Monroe's kookery goes, it doesn't really matter what you say about him. Those of us who love him and know that everyone has their own experiences will continue to believe in him and his experiences.

I don't understand why everything has to be picked apart down to the last letter, i.e. PUL.  Next will it be discussing what each letter means..... p-u-r-e-u-n-c-o-n-d-i-t-i-o-n-a-l-l-o-v-e ???  Then maybe down to each atom which makes up each letter ???

Namaste,
Mairlyn 

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Thats not PUL. it seems thats inner sense awareness, not 'pure unconditional love'.
You said its "experienced as an energy..." but how  vague can you be....  "where all communication is telepathic"...well, why dont you call it insteadd of pul: 'pure unconditional telepathic communications'. What has love have to with that at all?

in light of this:
Quote:
 

So the experience of pul is acheived somehow through telepathic communications on the astral plane to promote the highest good for others?
what are you talking about?

and Where does that attainment idea come from?
Was that not suggested to you somewhere, berserker, a suggestion you believe that this is how you attain love??

Though, in any case, this is good because it proves to my awareness what i have discovered about our motivations, they do follow our beliefs.

"A way of being motivated by the promotion of the highest good for others."

could be changed to, 'a way of being motivated by the belief that we should promote the highest good upon others.'
that is ,no doubt an influence of judgement, once again.

Pul is conditional, hate to keep reminding that to you folks. but even if it takes me to the defining of each letter of pul to show you what i think it is, so be it.

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Ghetto mentality?  Unwashed herds.
Have you totally gone over the edge Donald?

Matthew,

I'm very tuned in to both the differences in background and the ghetto/herd mentality.   I knew you were a doctor.  You ramped up the rhetoric with your "puke" comment and your repetition of the same point about RAM.

And you just revealed that you come from an untestable theistic belief typical of New Agers.  In my terms, that does not make you a New Ager. I'm uncomfortable with that label for both you and Bob.  But you signaled a challenge that I'm glad to meet.  I like to take such challenges as an opportunity to rethink my case.

By the way, I feel no unfriendliness about all this.  Remember, I'm an academic accustomed to the parry and thrust of hard critiques after reading research papers at national conferences.   Those debates were usually followed by whne and cheez hours where we could laugh and occasionally vent our displeasure at how we were misunderstood.

When I left academia to become a minister, I was asked to submit a critical review of a new book entitled "The Wisdom and Wit of Rabbi Jesus."   I was pretty hard on the author's superficial treatment of Jesus' sense of humor.  After my review was published, , I attended the national conference of the American Academy of Religion in Anaheim, this time as a minister.  In the gargantuan ballroom book display area, I was checking out the breakthroughs in my field when I noticed a stranger glaring at me with his arms folded.   I checked my fly and it was zipped up; so I was unconcerned.   But when he continued to glare, I looked at his name tag and suddenly realized it was the guy whose book I had recently critiqued in a journal  I had forgotten that he could identify me as his critic by my own name tag!  5,000 people at a conference!  How likely is it that I would run into him?  He never approached me.  He just stared in disapproval.   Hilarious!

Don