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recoverer

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #75 - Dec 8^th, 2005 at 5:31pm

Beserk:

Since you agreed with me about something, I'll agree with you about something. People shouldn't just assume that a channeled source is genuine.

Regarding near death experiences, I find the below NDE's more inspiring than Howard Storm's NDE. My first impression when I read him is that he's a Christian fundamentalist who is trying to refute what other NDE experiencers have experienced.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation03.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html

I also like this experience from another site. It sounds like Richard contacted his soul group/disc.

http://www.nderf.org/richard_l's_nde.html

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Berserk

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #76 - Dec 8^th, 2005 at 6:38pm

Recoverer,

No, Storm is far from a Christian fundamentalist. But that only becomes obvious from the greatly expanded version of his NDE in his book, "My Descent into Death." For example, Jesus tells him that the best religion is the one that draws you closest to God. He receives much teaching about intelligent life on other planets and in other dimensions. He is told that reincarnation on our earth is infrequent, but commonplace if you include a fresh life on other planets or in other dimensions.
Sometime, I should create a new thread just on Storm's book, so readers can understand why I consider it by far the best book of its kind.

Don

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« Last Edit: Dec 8^th, 2005 at 7:41pm by Berserk »

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Justin2710

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #77 - Dec 8^th, 2005 at 7:19pm

The thing is Don...

Nobody really cares about anyone elses beliefs, not one drop though some try to appear openminded....

We are so much more close minded than we realize, ALL of US...

Sometimes i wonder if its even worth sharing, but in the end, it seems the sharing is mostly for ourselves... Self therapy Grin

...

We resonate with what we resonate with, and damn logic all to Hell...

Logic has no place amongst humans who have imagined the most illogical realities for themselves...

If we don't pull ourselves together a bit...and actually start waking up more collectively...then this Golden Age that so many major belief systems see as a potential...just won't happen...

And then this race of humans..will eventually be left by the various helpful E.T.'s and will turn into half apes again, and our Souls will move onto the "next" planet, to try again...

Here's a good question; how many planets/dimensions does it take for a stubborn Soul to go through before it actually wakes up and smells the reality Coffee?

Guess it depends on the Soul, but Earth seems to have a lot of very stubborn and willful ones...its a pretty high percentage..compared to a lot of places.... I've been to some of these other places...now there are so logical but deeply empathic Souls...

Yet i'm still optimistic...i think there will have to be some very big "wake up calls" from mother Nature, and our own soon to be crashing systems of gov. and economy. etc. But i'm fairly optimistic that with these extreme changes...we will roll with them and change...well...extremely...

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Raz

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #78 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 2:05am

Quote:

To rely on your own experience is good.

As for being a searcher for so long...I know, I've been there. Its funny but I started to find the answers when I started to trust myself. It's like placing an INTENT. Once its there, the answer will come, just be aware.

Real knowledge doesn't exist... we become AWARE with a KNOWING. You are the only one who can acheive this, no one else can do it for you.

Your life will evolve as your INTENT and BELIEFS. The information will come to you and YOU will know it, because it will resonate in you.

Awareness isn't stagnant, it is action. Always evolving, always expanding.

No need to worry... its a game! Just play, have fun.

Isn't it neat?

Huh? to..Gerald, What are you going on about?
Im trying to figure it out..., i know you said you like seth ...and i have read some elias too...actually i have read them both and the same stuff you are talking about is all within their sytem of information and 'catch phrases'...
but lets be honest,basically its a fraud, mind tricks, and suggestions as a way to make money and prey on the powerless... You even sound like a watered down elias disciple, if you'll excuse my saying so, but afterall, it is a game.
But what you are saying is like holding.... no ...substance? you seem to be throwing out affirmations of somesort and calling that awareness?
"its about action", "its about having fun", or "a game" awareness, knowing , trust,....how naive, you have been brainwashed by someone else, they tell you the way it is and you believe them.

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gerald

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #79 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 7:12am

Quote:

Huh? to..Gerald, What are you going on about?
Im trying to figure it out..., i know you said you like seth ...and i have read some elias too...actually i have read them both and the same stuff you are talking about is all within their sytem of information and 'catch phrases'...
but lets be honest,basically its a fraud, mind tricks, and suggestions as a way to make money and prey on the powerless... You even sound like a watered down elias disciple, if you'll excuse my saying so, but afterall, it is a game.
But what you are saying is like holding.... no ...substance? you seem to be throwing out affirmations of somesort and calling that awareness?
"its about action", "its about having fun", or "a game" awareness, knowing , trust,....how naive, you have been brainwashed by someone else, they tell you the way it is and you believe them.

I've been around a lot, and in a lot of places. Read, studied, tried many things. What I stick to now is based on my own AWARENESS, no one elses. TRUST

In reading the posts here, all opinions are right. I'm not arguing with anyone. It's all about defending one's BELIEFS. You are doing exactly that, defending your own truth and beliefs in responding to my post. And that's fine.

Who am I to say you are wrong?

I have read, and still read Seth. Read a lot of transcripts of Elias, Monroe's books, Bruce's books, Cayce's etc...etc...

Real knowledge doesn't exist per se. Because what is real to me today will change tomorrow. What you believe today will be transformed tomorrow. AWARENESS is personal. You are aware of yourself, your beliefs. As I am.

how naive, you have been brainwashed by someone else, they tell you the way it is and you believe them.

Are you aware that you are doing exactly the same thing? All that you believe, you have experienced, make up what you are today, and transpire in your opinion.

Beliefs against beliefs! No one is wrong here.

I have been there. The difference NOW is that I only accept what "resonate" with me. And what resonate with me today may change tomorrow. This is what I mean by action.

All of this is determine by OUR intent. The acceptance depends on our inner knowing.

So your phrase (they tell you the way it is and you believe them.) should be : they tell you the way it is and I DECIDE WHAT I ACCEPT.

If you take the time to read my few posts here, you will find that I am very suspicious of all the channels around, for the same reasons that you mentionned, and that includes Elias.

When we argue, we are only defending our own beliefs.

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DocM

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #80 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 8:30am

Just a quick morsel of food for thought for any out there who feel that there is too much discussion, and that all one needs is one's own experiences - not analysis or logic.

I was just thinking this morning; many accept what Bruce calls the "hollow heavens," as being a place some go after death because they believe as they were raised. These heavens are "hollow," because they have self imposed restrictions on awareness. However, if you take your average christian in the christian hollow heaven, he/she would say: it is my personal experience, my personal connection with God that has led me here.

You see what I'm getting at? Ultimately, we seek our own experience and awareness. The christian in a hollow heaven may eventually figure at that something is "not quite right," begin to question his/her perceptions and beliefs, and then move to an expanded awareness in Focus 27. However, before he/she becomes aware of this, he/she would argue quite strongly that his/her personal experience has guided him/her with absolute certainty.

So yes, let us seek our own awareness through experience, but let Don, myself and others analyze what we can. The combination of experience and analysis is the only way to go to not be fooled.

Matthew

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gerald

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #81 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 8:48am

Quote:

You see what I'm getting at? Ultimately, we seek our own experience and awareness. The christian in a hollow heaven may eventually figure at that something is "not quite right," begin to question his/her perceptions and beliefs, and then move to an expanded awareness in Focus 27. However, before he/she becomes aware of this, he/she would argue quite strongly that his/her personal experience has guided him/her with absolute certainty.

So yes, let us seek our own awareness through experience, but let Don, myself and others analyze what we can. The combination of experience and analysis is the only way to go to not be fooled.

Matthew

That's it Mathew!!

Our awareness expands continously. This is what I mean by action and not being stagnant. We "evolve" and so do our beliefs along the way. There is no right or bad way. Only OUR way.

I am aware of certain things that you are not and vice-versa. Normal that we have different beliefs...different point of views.

NO ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

Even being fooled isn't important. Taking the right or wrong decision either. The result is that we learn and thus our awareness expands.

Hence to TRUST ourself is what's important. Because we each know inside us what we need. And this determine the experiences we will have, which may well be to be fooled so as to eliminate certain concepts and ideas. Learning!

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DocM

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #82 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 9:06am

No Gerald. I respectfully disagree. "No one is right or wrong." Sorry. This provides an intolerable mediocrity of mindlessness. This is liberalism gone astray. You may say, in a sense that those in a belief system are trusting their experience until they leave. Those that committ violence are trusting what they think are their beliefs. The Hitlers, Arafats, Mussolinis. You may say that when their souls are ready, they too will see the folly of their ways and expand, progress.

I disagree. Learning is important and fine - but we must have a context to learn and a guide other than what we "think" is right. Take a school child. He or she may say "algebra is dumb." I don't feel it is right for me. He is following his intuition, is he not? Yet he should go to school and learn things he doesn't want to learn. We assume that the adults know better. We assume that there is a right and a wrong path. It is well and good to say we all should just make mistakes and find the right path on our own, but there should be a right way and a wrong way.

I am not a christian. However, I believe that the new pope spoke of a danger of a "moral relativism." And for at least this one phrase, I agree with him. Everything isn't ok, as long as you think it is. Whether or not you can recover from a wrong turn is not the point.

Matthew

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Raz

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #83 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 12:34pm

"NO ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG."

hmmm, really? Then how come we live in a society with laws.....
Or better yet, i am not allowed to think your wrong? or right? then what?

Lets face it, there is a right and a wrong , you cant just eliminate judgement and say there is no such thing when, if you look around, and even notice yourself, you hold judgement.
If what you say is wrong, would you say it?
Maybe you already are saying something wrong but think its right.

There is no right or wrong...lmao

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gerald

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #84 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 12:51pm

Could I suggest both of you to go back and read my post again.

..."""I am aware of certain things that you are not and vice-versa. Normal that we have different beliefs...different point of views.

NO ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG...."""

Your beliefs, my beliefs; my opinion, your opinion etc... NO ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG. We react, act, think, based on our consciousness, awareness, by what we know. And all of that is conditionned by our personal beliefs.

So who can say I'm wrong, and who am I to say you are wrong?

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gerald

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #85 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 1:08pm

Quote:

"NO ONE IS RIGHT OR WRONG."

hmmm, really? Then how come we live in a society with laws.....
Or better yet, i am not allowed to think your wrong? or right? then what?

Lets face it, there is a right and a wrong , you cant just eliminate judgement and say there is no such thing when, if you look around, and even notice yourself, you hold judgement.
If what you say is wrong, would you say it?
Maybe you already are saying something wrong but think its right.

There is no right or wrong...lmao

That's exactly right!

I found out I was "wrong" more often than I would like to. Refusing to recognize I am "wrong" would be pointless. Think on this: we all make decision in our life. We can say that this was a "good" decision and this was a "bad" one.

My opinion is that it doesn't matter. It's what we learn that's important. The right or wrong doesn't matter, either way we learn.

Awareness expands, it is never stagnant.

I will change, of course! So will my view, my thoughts my consciousness. You could then say I was wrong TODAY. I would say that I have grown into a more learned person.

As far as holding judgement, I try very hard not to. I never intended to give the impression I was perfect. What you call judgement I call beliefs.

A clash of opinions, is only people fighting to convince that their beliefs are better than those of the others. NO ONE IS RIGHT NO ONE IS WRONG.

Beliefs are personal things that we have acquired during our whole life. Religious, cultural...you name it.

Don't you think that this discussion does look like a game ? Its not important to win, its fun to play.

Remember the book "I'm OK, you're OK!"

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recoverer

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #86 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 1:28pm

I read his NDE a while ago. I just re-read some of it, and it isn't quite what I thought. However, here's a sentence that stood out.

"God will ultimately judge every individual. And God will allow people to be dragged into darkness with like-minded creatures. "

I question the above. It seems more reasonable that if a person goes to an afterlife realm that seems hellish, it is because his or her thought/energy essence matches up with such a vibrational rate. Because God won't force people to change, sometimes they get stuck in hell like realms for a while, until they chose a better way.

His NDE account also states that everything in the Bible is true. I believe that there is a strong possibility that men decided which portions become a part of the Bible, and which portions didn't. Sometimes truth found its way in, sometimes it didn't.

The fact of how mankind translates the Bible in so many different ways today, shows that he is free to represent what is ultimately true either falsely or truthfully.

Why would things be different when the Bible was compiled, than they are today?

Quote:

Recoverer,

No, Storm is far from a Christian fundamentalist. But that only becomes obvious from the greatly expanded version of his NDE in his book, "My Descent into Death." For example, Jesus tells him that the best religion is the one that draws you closest to God. He receives much teaching about intelligent life on other planets and in other dimensions. He is told that reincarnation on our earth is infrequent, but commonplace if you include a fresh life on other planets or in other dimensions.
Sometime, I should create a new thread just on Storm's book, so readers can understand why I consider it by far the best book of its kind.

Don

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DocM

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #87 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 1:48pm

Let us not confuse tolerance of others with saying there is no right and there is no wrong. I am open to the opinion of others. I hope we all are. Some opinions seem silly to me. For instance when I hear of someone recommending enemas or bowel cleansings for medical conditions which I, as a physician know to be ineffective. That is wrong. But what if the person believes in the bowel cleansing? Should we not live and let live? Maybe its right for them? No. The "I'm ok, you're ok" notion leaves everyone feeling good, but loses our society and meaning.

I asked my stepson, who gets into trouble regularly why his friend stole a pair of jeans from a shopping mall. "Everyone does it. Its ok if you don't get caught." I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This kid had a good upbringing. But the notion of right or wrong, good or evil had not gotten through.

Either there are things that are true, and valid, or there are not. If there is no truth, no right or wrong, then all is pure chaos. In a universe like that, we would all go mad.

I still go by my last posting. Life is about experience and learning, but within certain laws, truths and parameters to guide you. The golden rule (do unto others), is perhaps one of the best known rules out there. It assumes that someone is right and someone is wrong.

Matthew

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gerald

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #88 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 2:16pm

You have just expressed some of your beliefs Matthew.

The kamikase terrorists are doing what they are doing because of their beliefs. You can say they are wrong, and bad. But if you where also sharing their beliefs, what would you say?

They are wrong because you have different beliefs.

If you would argue with one of them, you would both believe you are right and the other is wrong. It's because of the beliefs held.

That's just what I'm saying. Its all about beliefs!

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DocM

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Re: Newbie - Worry
Reply #89 - Dec 9^th, 2005 at 2:41pm

It is about beliefs, but there is a set of divine laws which govern right action.

The islamic terrorist who hacks off the head of a charity worker in Iraq is not acting on the basis of faith, no matter what is said. Scholars of Islam do not condone this. He is wrong in the most pure and simple way possible. It is not just that he holds a different belief than I do. Many times, there is a complete disregard for life, right, wrong, truth, and beauty. You can not then claim that there is no right or wrong.

The holocaust was wrong. Apartheid in South Africa was wrong. Ethnic cleansings and killings are wrong. They do not stem from differences in religious beliefs but they do arise from sick and twisted minds filled with hate.

As much as anyone on this board says that love is all there is, so should they say hate is wrong. When you start with those initial definitions, you can extrapolate from there.

We can agree to disagree on the board about this, Gerald. I still say in a world with no right or wrong, there is no accountability for action, there is chaos, and no spiritual advancement.

Matthew

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