I also believe that in an ultimate sense that unlove doesn't exist...

  But maybe their are two simultaneus realities co-existing...?

  I call it the relativistic and the absolute...the absolute is that ultimate reality you're talking about, where are all in the Still, completely One, Heart of the Creator...  This was the Creator during its passive State...

But it moved, and became active, and so our Souls and worlds came into Being...and these, because of Freewill can choose to imagine and temporarily create unlove...  Its not a God thing, so its temporal...

  But that unlove and suffering is a reality, is self evident to any who choose that path, isn't it?

   The Relativistic reality revolves around Choice and Freewill, growth, continual expansion, ever active, and fluctuating...in relation to its relative relationship to the Whole...

See what i mean?  Holding both these Realities together, these polarities of Mind--Heart, Masculine--Feminine, Active charge and Passive balance...

  When these merge within the Self...then you know the Reality, which is beyond both individually.

  Such a person becomes like He/She in Monroe's Ultimate Journeys...  This is not knowledge of my own, no way Jose, but rather the Elders who whisper to any who will make themselves a channel.

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Rob Roy, you express this same denial as Gerald in a way... What your saying is that Love does exist, but hate and evil dont, this is a denial of the ideas and their objective existance as ideas of hate and evil  which they do exist, are a reality, or else you wouldnt be comparing them to love.

and, hate and evil are not absent of love, actually, they way you describe it they seem quite dependant on love.

what you describe seems to be a means of comparing your Positive with your Negative. Which is judgement.
Its a right or wrong issue even still,... and though you dont want to have a starting point of right and wrong, you already have that starting point before you started. by comparing love(positive) with hate(negative).
Two opposing sides.  So it very much a discussion with the foundation as judgement.

So, can you discuss a duality without opposition?  love or hate as being different, though one is not better than another?  probably not, because you think love is right, or better than hate or evil.
But dont get me wrong, i agree with that, just want to point out that its a judgement, and there is nothing wrong with judgement.

I for one am not going around all day thinking no one is right or wrong.  I make judgements, i have guidelines about what i will accept as right or wrong.  In fact i use it to navigate through this maze...

To me it is either meaningless or wrong to say that hate does not exist, but is rather the absence of love.  It is meaningless because acts of hate (e.g. torturing Jews or Blacks) cannot simply be explained by the absence of something.  Acts of hate are very real acts that cause intense pain and even death.  More importantly, it is wrong because of what Malachi Martin has discovered as the decisive factor that  convinces the skeptic of  the reality of demonic possession in a major exorcism. (See his analysis of several major exorcisms in "Hostage to the Devil".)

It is not the bizarre lowering of room temperature as the entity sucks up heat energy to manifest itself.  It is not the psychokinetic effects (objects being teleported around the room, etc.).  It is not the serpentine expression on the face of the possessed that psychiatrist Scott Peck, for example, tried without success for hours to imitate in a mirror.   It is not the fact that the entity knows you better than you know yourself and reveals some of your most embarrassing life moments to humiliate you at key junctures during the exorcism.  
For example, one saintly priest was greeted by the demoniac with the snide comment, "Well, if it isn't Peter the Eater."  The other priests gazed curiously at this priest's ashen face.   That expression was a dirty nickname his girlfriend had given him in his misspent youth.  The gross revelation temporarily put the demon in charge of the exorcism.

All of these symptoms can be present in a major exorcism.   So what convinces even the skeptic of the reality of demonic possession?   The searing energy of pure hatred, says Martin, an energy that sears the soul like a hot iron with effects that continue after the exorcism.  This energy is every bit as real as love.   Martin describes one case in which the energy of hate instantly killed one young athletic priest the moment he approached the bed of the possessed.  Conversely , it can be questioned whether love is properly viewed as an energy at all.   In my view, love is more properly regarded as a way of being, which may or may not be experienced as energy.

Martin is a Catholic priest. But his key observations find independent corroboration from New Age OBE adept, Robert Bruce.  Robert has confirmed the reality of hate and evil by direct experience. I quote from one of his online articles at "Astral Dynamics:"

"I have seen babies as young as nine-months-old under strong, direct psychic attack from unquestionably evil spirits.   I have seen toddlers attacked, overshadowed, possessed, and tormented.  I have stood in nurseries and seen manifestations (visible to the naked eye) that would make normal person's hair turn gray...."

"I once became possessed myself and was almost killed, while trying to exorcise a powerful entity from a five-year old boy.   I have also seen animals attacked, even possessed and driven mad by negs".

"The popular New Age model states that everyone has spirit guides and/or spirit protectors attached to them from birth to death.  But if this were true, how can babies of pre-language age and very young children be attacked and tormented, even possessed?  Where is their protection and guidance when they need it most?"
 
Don

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Bob, I think you make your point very well.

To me love is the energy of our creative essence deep within each of us. It is consciousness in movement of creativity. As this creative energy moves from the spiritual downward human physical manifestation of belief comes into existence and our beliefs, as a collective becomes the ‘real’ world as consciousness experiences this.

I think quantum physics explains this in saying that consciousness is the foundation of both matter and mind, which are both possibilities of consciousness and when consciousness changes possibilities into an event of actual experience, some of the possibilities are collapsed as physical and some as mental.  Mental possibilities are nonmaterial. They are possibilities of meaning and when consciousness collapses these meaning possibilities in conjunction with the brain possibilities, the collapsed brain actuality makes a representation of the collapsed mental meaning of the experienced thought. This is called downward causation, which to me is the energy of our essence moving from the spiritual downward.

As spiritual energy moves through us we either experience pleasure (love) or pain (fear) according to the beliefs consciousness chooses. The creation of fear came about as the beliefs consciousness chose brought about physical pain. Everything that we consider to be hateful, bad, negative, etc. is the result of fear. Everything that we are and all that we create is based on belief. Essentially we are belief created by consciousness.

The shift in consciousness to me is the recognition of this from a higher perspective of our being, or the creation of belief that supports this recognition of our being. It’s not only a personal shift in consciousness, but also becomes a collective shift in consciousness as more and more people solidify their beliefs. It’s the falling away of the old paradigm and incorporating a new paradigm within our belief systems. Great creative power exists within individualized consciousness coming together as a collective. The choice of what we create truly is ours.

As the shedding of belief within consciousness occurs we progressively change our ‘real’ world. As we begin to understand that Consciousness is God and that God Consciousness is without belief, we begin to understand ourselves as being the creators of our own universe. We begin to see where we have been and where we are going in that we started out as God Consciousness (without belief) in movement becoming individualized (creating belief) coming full circle or back to God Consciousness containing knowledge of Creativity.

To choose love is to choose to release fear, thereby shedding our belief in fear, which is the direct cause of all human pain and suffering. We created it therefore we can release it. It all begins by releasing the fear within us. The only one responsible for the pain one feels is their own self. Only one’s own consciousness chooses from among the possibilities. This is individual free will to the fullest extent that I know it to be.

As we create our new world, many blessings await us.

Love, Kathy

Hi Kathy,

Very nice post.  I agree with most of it.  I'm not sure I agree that we are each soley responsible for our own pain and suffering, because we voluntarily hold the fear/pain.  It is hard for a woman in one of Saddam Hussein's notorious "rape rooms," to be personally responsible for her fear.  She is, but as you know it is a shared responsibility.  True, her spirit is in no true danger, and if there is no death, then transient torture will pass.  However she may not be able to keep perspective, as pain and fear from real life circumstances tend to overwhelm one's mind.

So I agree with the theory about releasing fear - I have asked myself to release certain fears and visualized it, and then the next day felt confident and unafraid.  To me that was quite remarkable.  However, it was done in a relaxed setting without real-life hounds on my heels. 

I believe that individuals perpetrating horrific acts, feed their negative energy with a person's fear, and may be in part responsible for the fear/hate/ lack of love.  They will carry that burden and have to overcome it in order to improve/progress.

I have met indivduals, so bent on creating these negative emotions, it makes me wonder if we are all destined for spiritual advancement.  Do we all truly return to God, after releasing beliefs and embracing love?  Or, are some people/souls destined to revolving indefinitely around these negative emotions?  The easy answer is that it may take the "cruel" souls longer, but they will get their too.   Still, I'm not yet sure about that.


Matthew

Hi Matthew,

I see what you are getting at in regards to torture of another human. For me to understand this I need to look at this from the perspective of individual consciousness projecting down into the earth plane from the beginning of that entity’s experience say perhaps thousands of years ago? That entity’s individual consciousness created fear within itself ever building in magnitude creating distortions of its energy.

The person who would torture does so out of his or her own fear of powerlessness. It’s fear that causes people to behave in horrendous ways sometimes. In groups of people who have like fears, a group consciousness evolves creating say a group consciousness fear of powerlessness.  The greater the consciousness of fear is within individuals, the greater the fear of the collective group, the more horrendous ways in which this group may act. It is an attempt to not feel the pain of their own fears of powerlessness by essentially using shear force to take power away from others. It’s really a concept on so grand of a scale that it is difficult for us to grasp.  And if we try to grasp it from a human perspective only it’s nearly impossible to comprehend.  For me it’s one of those things that you almost have to feel it, rather than think it.

I think as consciousness expands it is always giving understanding and meaning to itself by experiencing the choices it makes. So why would consciousness choose to experience torture? I’m not sure I have a good grasp on this except to say that it must have been beneficial to consciousness in some way.

I think Dave’s reply on this thread speaks to this subject from a human perspective and perhaps practical resolutions to this kind of thing.

The thread is located here:
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-afterlife-knowledge/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=a...

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You havent read my previous post then, it seems.  I have said basically you are in denial of the objective existence of these. You say they dont exist, and i have said you deny their existence, which you do.