Last night I had a dream. I was lying in bed, and it appeared that my sister was lying behind me, and holding me in a very caring way. We were on a land mass that includes Europe and Asia, and I was talking to her about how I thought is was just as possible to exist as a bodiless, awareness energy being here, as it is in America. This concerned my sister.

When I woke up it occurred to me that the being I was with wasn't my sister, but rather a being I know from the spirit World, who is very close to me in a sister like way, but not in a way that includes barriers such as the incest barriers that exist in the physical. She was concerned about me, because she didn't feel as if I should be worrying so much about being a bodiless, awareness energy being, while here in the physical.

The thing is, I used to follow teachings in which you try to discover that you aren't you're body and mind, rather you're pure awareness. Also, you would try to let go of your attachment to the World, so that you could see that it isn't real, is nothing but an illusion, and therefore, doesn't even exist.

I now realize that I "don't" need to meditate in order to find out about the above-in particular the body identification part-because when it comes time for me to cross over to spirit World, the fact of my not being a physical body will naturally occur, due to its absence (bon appetite worms).

I believe that spirits get the gift of individual existence, because God has given them this gift in the form of thought/energy, with the attribute of awareness rounding things off. It is as if we are packets of thought/energy/awareness.

So the goal for me is not to realize that I'm not a physical body (this is a fact regardless of what I realize), but rather to work on my personality, so that my thought/energy packet will take on a form that will enable me to exist in a manner that is in harmony with higher truth. My body and things like human relationship provide me with the opportunity to grow.

The above is about how to reach our ultimate goal. Another question, what is our ultimate goal?

One day this past summer I was sitting in my kitchen reading Gordon Phinn's book, "Eternal Life and how to enjoy it," a chapter called "the Mental Plain," page 175. A portion of this page reads:

"People really do get used to the way they look and are often loathe to give it up for the promise of what-the thrill of endless anonymity in a sea of anonymity? Doesn't sound so fantastic, does it?

Ah, but when you get there the bliss just blows you away. Reuniting with your higher self, that depository of all your other personalities, can be like checking into the grandest of grand hotels, where everyone you meet is your oldest and closest friend and where the backslapping party stops only for your momentary reentry.

At least, that's what someone told me (not Gordon, rather a spirit who shares information in the book) as they headed back down through the planes for another stab at perfecting themselves in the school of hard knocks. As for myself, I've yet to take that particular plunge."

After reading this, I stopped to meditate about it for a bit. It occurred to me that yes, you can choose to engage in simpler pleasures when you're in a blissed out realm, but why would you bother to do so? Right after thinking this I heard a male voice say: "That's it." Next I heard another male voice ask: "Are you sure?" The first voice responded in an adamant and annoyed way: "Yes! Let's go."

I got the feeling that my guidance had given up on me. Of course it hadn't, it was just trying to make a point for which it has taken me time to decipher.

It just doesn't make sense to me that we spend years and years trying to perfect ourselves, just so we can be munched down like a bunch of meaningless Cheerios at the end, with our individuality never to be seen again.

In one of the best experiences I ever had (I've written about it before), I found myself in space (not physical space), I understood that there is a higher spiritual truth, I understood that everything works out wonderfully in the end, I understood how it all works, and I understood this without having to think about it. The experience felt absolutely wonderful, and I felt relieved to find out that this is how things work out in the end. The realization of how everything works out in the end, is part of what made the experience wonderful. And a funny thing about this, even though I understood things spontaneously, I was still able to think in the manner in which I usually think.

On a similar note, one time I meditated and found that I'm not my body and mind. I also felt like I didn't have an identity, rather I existed as an awareness energy being. Yet, I was still able to use my thinking mind like I usually do, and think about who I supposedly am as a person. It is just that I knew that these things don't actually define me in an absolute sense.

When I think of the spirit from Gordon's book who was taking another stab at perfecting itself in the school of hard knocks, in order to take another stab at perfecting itself, I find it interesting that it had to do so after hanging out in a bliss realm for a while.

Could it be that it isn't a matter of finding a realm of eternal bliss (like Nirvana) where your individuality doesn't mean a thing, but rather a matter of working on fixing up your thought/energy packet to a point, where you can become completely happy with it for all of eternity?

Sometimes while meditating I'll get blissed out, it feels good, but still a point comes where I say "that's enough." As if the creative part of my being kicks in.

One other thing that relates. Last night I watched TV for a bit, but couldn't get into to it. Especially since there were a couple of issues I wanted to get clear on. So I meditated for a while and gained some clarity. After doing so, I continued to meditate. It seemed as if some messages were sent to me as I did so. It was hard to pick up on them because I was sort of spaced out. But basically they said: "Stop it! Stop meditating so much!"

P.S. to Gordon. I hope you don't mind me quoting your book.

Hi Recoverer-

Sounds to me like you're right on track. A lot of what seems to many of us to be a blockage of understanding is simply too many words.

Nisargadatta Maharaj summarized morality in four words: Don't cheat. Don't hurt.

From the Upanishads, and subsequently echoed in Buddhism, we have three basic principles: (a) joyfully act for the value of the action in itself (karma yoga); (b) sense your oneness with everything, content, and with loving kindness (bhakta yoga); (c) maintain intensely interested awareness without distortion or bias (jnana yoga). Alternatively, there are three corresponding classes of problems that we encounter. These are the three positive and three negative regions seen in the Mandala of the Wheel of Life.

When we get all three of these principles more or less handled at once we enter a state called "sat-chit-ananda" (meaning perfection of existence-awareness-blissfulness) in which we cease to create seriously negative karma, so that life is fun, self-fulfilling etc. This is actually an easily realized state.

After satchitananda come two levels of samadhi: first the unification of everything into a single system that defines itself, and second the collapse of everything into a single point of Being -  "unity with God" .

enjoy-
\dave

Dave:

I used to read Nisargadatta  a lot. I can't say I'm into Vendantic neti neti (not this, not this) teachings anymore. For example, take the part, "you are not the body." I've meditated with that in mind a lot. In some ways it was useful to meditate in that way. But now my feeling is that while we have bodies we use them for growth purposes, and when we're done with them we'll be without them, simply because they aren't around anymore.

Sat chit ananda (existence-awareness-bliss), I never got the impression that "existence" meant the creative aspect of God. If anything Vendanta, especially Advaita Vendanta, speaks as if the universe is nothing but an illusion. Ramana Maharshi spoke of ajata vada (no creation).

I no longer believe that the universe is just a big mistake that was created by accident (due to ignorance) . I now believe that it was created on purpose so God could 1) explore/make use of the creative aspect of his being; and 2) out of love, share his marvelous existence with many other points of consciousness. The existence of God doesn't go away simply because his being manifests in a creative way. His being has so much potential, why should he limit himself to just the existence, consciousness, bliss aspects.

I'm not certain how exactly unity with God manifests. Some people state that it is like a river merging with an ocean, and suggest that individuality is altogether demolished. As I stated in my first post, it doesn't make sense to me that God would give us the gift of individual life, have us work on it for many incarnations, just to take it away from us in the end.  ???

I'm not there yet, so I can't say anything for certain.

It's interesting that people such as Nisargadata Maharaj didn't tend to speak of things such as spirit guides, chakras, and the existence of immense spirit realms beyond what is indicated when you speak of them in a nirvanic sense.



Quote:

Albert,

         I like what you share and feel like rambling a bit in response, with no particular need to make sense...

         I am of like mind.... what the @&*$%# is this stuff about seeking the 'end of self'?  Now I don't really know, but I have the feeling that this unique me, this old 'Tim F.'  isn't going away, isn't going to pass into non-existence. Go through changes yes, see where I'm part of something larger, yeah alright! but vanish into thin air? I don't see it happening....

        Likewise, this world is not an illusion. It's dream-like, but that doesn't mean it's fake... it's very, very real. Here's a question not original with me: what if this world IS the higher dimension, the absolute highest? Would that be ok with you? What would you do?  Deny it? Or explore it and it's possibilities?

         I know beyond any doubt that I am more than my physical body. That doesn't mean I'm hellbent on leaving this physical body and world. As far as I'm concerned THIS PLACE is where the action is. I think relationship is where it's at; whether the romantic kind or the friendship kind or any kind, there's more juice in relationship than in sitting and staring at a blank wall.

Now man, don't get me wrong; I love meditation deeply. But it's one of those near-meaningless words you have to define exactly...(what exactly are you doing when you say that?) and I ain't going there right now. But I will say that being trapped in a bliss-realm ain't a helluva lot different than being trapped in a hell realm.

  I could keep rambling, I'm just doing it for myself, but my fingers want to touch cat-fur and hear a purr, and then touch steel-string and listen to me sing.

    "Just one more thing..."

      Love, Tim
     

I don't think I have goals anymore. after reading ACIM I stopped trying to plan my future. it doesn't mean I then didn't have a future..it just meant I had no clue what would be best for me..so I had surrender the idea that I had ever known what to do, who to go with, which relationship to have..etc etc.
the funny thing is right around the time few years back I started doing retrievals, a lot of these retrievals were of my past selves in this life and a past life or two
..I say past, but mean simultaneous. its that language barriar..our entire language is past, present and future tense..is why we are having diffulty to talk here. well, qualify that; is why I'm having diffulty.
I changed the present by changing the past, by doing these retrievals, in turn, the changes in the present produced some change in a non-projected future, just call it peace of mind..don't get any better than peace of mind. still wasn't into future speculations. the now moment became super charged with more energy as was always the only thing that mattered...not focusing on goals..not even caring really about bettering myself, but was trying to do whatever I did, in the best possible manner to do it well. that would probably include doing retrievals well but not as a goal, more experimentation. the point: living in the now produces an expansion of consciousness..as that is when I began seeing general outlines of my future on a regular basis, but only once or twice or month, so I wasn't overwhelmed with the information. had to call it higher self, as was subjective.

the guides: were they there? started dreaming about guides, as friends. they were there, like ordinary folks, possessed of ordinary traits, especially humor. I needed humor as was serious person. but your guides can speak to you through physical folk too, so guides are not always dead folk. I shouldn't say dead, but me and some friends out there joke around that way. not having a body does not mean a guide does not know how to impress a thought unto your field of awareness, and most times, we are thinking it was your own idea, your own thought, all it can mean is you opened up to the thought and a helper inserted it so u could at last claim it as your own. they do this all the time. why should they? don't they have something better to do? what is the most loving fulfilling job in all the world but to inspire another? unless its to heal another.
it just blows you away how they get paid by your personal satisfaction...their joy is to see you healed or happy. thats like saying we are all one, we are God in a collective sense.
I'm in agreement with every single person's thoughts here and actually can do takes on individual thoughts here and wind up in the same place each time..total agreement, because, it's true, we are all connected. thats a little mind blowing too. but maybe its time to see that, and know that.
I appreciate what Monroe started, with the focus levels, yet I've never set out to use them..I put myself into the hands of the guides, and let them mostly take some body to the reception area.
I don't meditate, although I think it's great, you guys yourselves put me into altered states just reading you!
when people stop blowing my mind, then I'll probably be ready to transition

I spent a long time Albert checking my body out, imagining what it would be like not to have one..the best way to understand you are not your body, I mean owned by it, is to understand you don't have a zipper on the front of it...whats all that blood and guts and organs in there, if you can't take a closer intimate look at it? must be borrowed then, from mother earth. never was mine then. then there was the next step to consider i never occupied my body fully..like an athlete would..you know, an athlete becomes really intimate with each muscle. I lived in the future (before) so I was never present in my body.
yet enlightenment can be attained through the body, not so much trying to get out of it. (I was) if you are fully present in the body, you can understand disease before it takes over the body and nip it in the bud, if u want that choice.
I simply didn't appreciate the body enough to listen to it..sooo...its what life is about here..the body, the experience of it. no use complaining, so finally, can say, hmm. thanks for the loan!! ha ha!

ok, enough rambling for me. you guys got the floor and a great topic I must say!

right on, love your analogy Eg, and how about this too, the radio and the cd player never break..

I agree with much of what people have written.