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Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons? (Read 17587 times)
B-dawg
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #15 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 5:09am
 
I very much agree B-man.  Have you cut pork products out of your diet?

  I haven't eaten pork in more than a decade, i believe and i'm 25 (had very little before i cut it out too). 

  Must have had some strong Jewish lifetimes (well actually know i do) since i thought it was disgusting since young.

  When i was around 5, and made to eat ham, i would throw up even though i liked the salty taste (probably too much salt for my system to handle at the time?).

  Because of many things, but especially because of the Pigs evolution and intelligence, their energy vibrations are harder to break down in our systems, and can really deplete our energy levels.

  I love a Cayce quote which goes something like, "If a person fills themselves up with swine will they not eventually become hoggish in their relationships with others?"

  Slow vibrational personalities are often very attracted to slow vibrational lifestyles and even food choices, and the other spectrum vice versa.  Plus their is the whole corporate thing to consider, like you mentioned, and i can't in good conscience support such systems which promote the suffering of animals to such a horrible degree.  I eat eggs, but i buy them as grain fed, cage free, etc. and not only is it a better choice spiritiually, but also more nutritionally.  Plenty of studies lately have shown that organically raised and produced foods have a greater nutritional concentration on average, as well as less pesticide residues etc.   When you buy organic, you are saying i care about others and the Earth's health, and in this spirit it helps to raise ones energy levels because it becomes a loving, compassionate act.

  You're also saying no to the corporations and their utter lack of regard for people's health, etc...

  well enough soap box preaching, i am glad you brough this up Brendan.

Peace
*******************************
I come from a family of pork gluttons, Justin.
I was practically raised on the stuff, as a matter of fact.
I always HATED it! (I don't like fat on my meat,
one of the reasons I've always loved wild game...)
Especially "country ribs", I always loathed though.
And don't even get me started on the EVIL that is
ham...
The only way I can stand pork is in certain Chinese
dishes (deep-fried.) The musky, porky odor doesn't assert itself that way...
Weird, huh?
As a kid, I often thought I could live JUST FINE on a kosher diet. As to having been Jewish in a past life, who knows?
BTW, a lot of kosher food is pretty good... but then, I don't think that means anything (other than 3000 years of refinement in a culinary tradition.)
Anyway, it was pretty easy for me to feel sorry for
pigs, even when I was a kid - some poor hog "gave his all" for me just about every other meal, and I didn't even care for it...
OH, and SOMETHING ELSE, Justin...
I do get tired and sluggish after I eat pork...
You mentioned how it depletes energy levels
(and I do still have it sometimes, at family
get-togethers and such, or as sausage on
pizza for that matter. (Maybe THAT'S why pizza
makes me stupid???)
Interesting...

B-man
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DocM
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #16 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 8:56am
 
Roger,

Thanks, I've heard something about these front bumper whistling devices.  I will have them on any car I drive now, although it still may not make the difference. 

The most difficult thing for me was not that the deer would die - although I regret that.  It wasn't there when I came back, and couldn't be found.  With the damage to my car, there is no doubt that it must have been crippled and died in the woods, slowly.  That suffering is the most difficult thing to bear.  My wife's family is from the South, and some were hunters.  They didn't like to see an animal suffer, but when I told them how upset I was they one said: "relax, its just a dumb deer."  They thought I was being silly, and I thought they didn't get it.

There was one not-so-bad movie "Powder," about an albino teenager, who was higher on the evolutionary scale than most of us.  He was in a hick town.  He saw a hunter down a deer, and ran to the deer, leaned over it.  The hunter came to him - and he grabbed the hunter's hand with his right hand and the deer's fur with his left.  The hunter's eyes became wide, and he began to scream.  He had for an instant felt like he was the deer.  Hurt, frightened, dying.  The next day, he told his pals, he would never hunt again.  He said it just wasn't in him anymore....that kid did something to him....


M
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Touching Souls
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #17 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 11:40am
 
Yes Matthew, that was an awesome scene. I wish that could happen to every hunter. Shocked

Namaste
Mairlyn
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #18 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 11:45am
 
Hi Roger,

Some people here where I live use those devices too and I've heard that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. Luckily, in my 12 years of driving up here when I lived here before, I never hit a deer but had many close calls, especially at night.

Namaste
Mairlyn
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DocM
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #19 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 12:10pm
 
Marilyn,

Thank you for your kind words to me.  You seem in tune with how affected I was.  Yes, that scene in that movie was a good one.  Still, I'll be the first to admit that I didn't become a vegetarian yet. 

If I could get my convictions to go along with my appetite, I would be a form of vegetarian already.

I always appreciate your responses Marilyn - they are always on target.

Best to you,

Matthew
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #20 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 12:31pm
 
Thank you Matthew. I too wish I could give up meat. It's very hard for me however I did give up venison. I always felt guilty eating it. I've cut way down on beef and pork.

When I was in high school, our class went on a field trip to Hormel. OMG, I gave up meat for 2 years as I could smell the meat packing plant in the meat. This was in Nebraska in the heart of beef raising country.

Blessings,
Mairlyn Wink
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Justin2710
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #21 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 1:37pm
 
 


Thanks for the interesting reply Brendan, some strange stuff this energy stuff is eh?  Wink


btw To All,
In my experience with me, my Fiance, and some of my friends, when you are "supposed" to drop meat (because of Like attracts Like), you'll just completely lose the taste for it.

 Then it becomes extremely easy as it was for some of my friends, Fiance, and I.

 Once in a great while will eat some fish and/or eggs if my body feels the need though.
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #22 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 2:40pm
 
It would be really nice to eat organic food if it wasn't so expensive. Here you are, making an ethical issue out of it, and no one mentions the cost of this kind of diet. And please, spare me the speel on long term cost savings in illnesses. I know that. I just can't affort organic.

If these people were so rightous these things would be affordable to everyone, epecially in rual areas where people don't make much and the grocery stores are not competitive.

Bob
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #23 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 2:47pm
 
Matthew,

Like you, I live in New York state and had a deer leap on to my hood while I was driving about 45 mph.   This happened 3 years ago and caused 3 thousand dollars of damage.   I thought I must have killed it, but, like you, I found no trace of it afterwards.   What is almost amusing is that I was on my way to an ecumenical Thanksgiving service I had helped organize.  (Incidentally, the service was held at the Catholic church where Oklahoma bomber, Tim McVeigh, had served as an altar boy.)  When my car limped in to the church, I was in an inappropriately grumpy mood! 

As for your main topic, from a biblical perspective, the forces of chaos and divine lifescript interact in a mysterious way that does not permit a clear line to be drawn between "accidents" and predestined events.   But let me share an apparently unplanned and cruel chain of events that infuse your question with poignancy.  I've shared these incidents once before but will put a slightly different spin on them this time. 

A couple of years ago I ran a prayer meeting that Eleanor usually attended faithfully.  She was a deeply caring woman whose husband Nick had died suddenly of a heart attack as a young man, leaving her to raise 3 children alone.  She would call and send comfort cards to everyone she knew was sick or otherwise in bad shape.   

Two years ago, I left her church and the prayer meetings ended.   Last year, while she was attending a friend's funeral, her son, Nick, Jr., hung himself in her home.   Nick, Jr. was distraught over a failed marriage.  Eleanor came home sad at her friend's death only to find her son at the end of a rope!   

Several months later, I finished a long walk and saw a note taped to my car's windshield.  It informed me that Eleanor had just been killed in a fiery car wreck.   Her burned-out car contained the remains of comfort cards she had recently purchased to send out to hurting people.
I was angry at God for allowing her final year to be so horrid and could see no divine providence operating here at all.   

A few months later, I ran into her sister in a local restaurant and joined her for lunch.   She shared some remarkable incidents that made me rethink my perspective on Eleanor's fate.   (1) A week before Eleanor died, she had a dream in which her house was filled with deceased relatives.   Her husband came down the stairs and asked, "Honey, do you want to dance?"  Eleanor loved to dance and would ordinarily never turn down such an offer from her husband.   But she seemed to sense that this was an invitation to cross to the afterlife.  So she replied, "Oh no, I'm not ready for that." 

(2) Remarkably, the clock in her living room had stopped at the time of her own death as well as at the time of her husband's and son's deaths.   Stopped clocks are a common phenomenon at the time of death.   Most notable is a famous incident involving astral adept Emanuel Swedenborg.   When ES was attending a party, some of the visitors decided to make sport of his reputation as a mystic by derisively challenging him: "Which one at this party will die first?"   Without hesitation, ES declared that Olaf would die at 4:45 A.M. the next morning.   Needless to say, this prediction removed the smirks from some of the faces present.   Olaf's servant contacted ES the next morning and reported Olaf's death just as ES had predicted.   As in the case of Eleanor, her husband, and her son, the clock had stopped at the moment of Olaf's death--4:45 AM just as ES had predicted. 

In my view, Eleanor's precognitive dream and ES's prediction indicate that the deaths in question were is some sense predestined after all.   The stopped clocks indicate that their time was simply up.   But I would add this qualification.

A year or two before the suicide of Eleanor's son, I felt a need to ask her and the other members of our prayer group to pray for the physical protection of all present.   My impulse to do this was powerful, though it seemed a bit paranoid after the prayer meeting.   In retrospect, I feel that I was divinely prompted to do this to protect her and perhaps others present from an ongoing threat to life.   

I'm upset that the prayer meeting was cancelled after I left the church.  I'm convinced that if it had continued and if prayer was periodically offered for the protection of the group's members and their families, Nick's suicide and Eleanor's fatal crash could have been averted or postponed!  In other words, I'm convinced that certain predestined events can be changed by prayer, faith, and love.

Of course, this raises the difficult question of how long the warrantee lasts on our prayers.  But an important mistranslation in many versions of Matthew 7:7 needs to be recognized.  Most versions quote Jesus' admonition thus "Ask and you will receive; seek and you will find." The more accurate translation is: "Keep on asking and you will receive; keep on seeking and you will find."  The New Living Translation, one of the best, has it right.

Don
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Justin2710
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #24 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 2:53pm
 
Quote:
It would be really nice to eat organic food if it wasn't so expensive. Here you are, making an ethical issue out of it, and no one mentions the cost of this kind of diet. And please, spare me the speel on long term cost savings in illnesses. I know that. I just can't affort organic.

If these people were so rightous these things would be affordable to everyone, epecially in rual areas where people don't make much and the grocery stores are not competitive.

Bob


  Dude, i work at 7-11, i get payed crap  Wink  And i still try to buy organic when i can.  I wasn't putting down others who didn't.

  My Fiance and I generally visit 3 different stores to be able to shop for what we need, we find the deals, the sales, the coupons, etc.

  Yeah, its more expensive, i agree and sometimes we just can't afford to buy 100 percent, but there are certain products which ethically should never be purchased conventionally if one is of high consciousness.

  Pork be one of them.  And i don't give a rat's arse what you or anyone says about it  Wink  Grin

  Just my B.S. Ok?  Don't like it, don't read it, but definitely DO disagree if you think you have a good point.  8)
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Bud_S
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #25 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 2:57pm
 
Caution, graphic post....

I've experienced many deer deaths by my own hand, and it's not getting shot that scares them, it's the presence of a human if they are still alive enough to see him.  Their natural instinct is to avoid predators and it makes them scared when one gets close.  I enjoy hunting and have many intense spiritual experiences surrounding it.  Call that primitive if you like, but it does involve the cycle of life, and deer participate in it as well.  They have an afterlife just like everything else.

You have to ask yourself what you'd have done if you went back and found the deer with a compound fracture and its leg flopping along attached by some skin and a few muscles.  I've come across a deer laying in the middle of deserted road at night in just that condition.  All I had was a knife and no other cars had gone by the 10 mins i was there.  I tried and tried to bring myself to stab it to death with my knife, but was too scared of what it would do.  It finally was so scared of me it got up on its 3 legs, ran off the road, jumped a fence, all the while dragging it's destroyed hind leg behind it.  My biggest regret was that I couldn't kill it.  It probably took 2 or 3 weeks for infection to set in an finish it off slowly.  That is real suffering, not like being dispatched by a bullet in a matter of minutes.

In the spring, more deer die around our place than any other time of year.  They get diarrhea from the new vegetation which overwhelmes thier digestive system.  You can tell when a deer in your area has it simply by all the runny deer feces all over the trails and plants.  It explodes out of them and coats the bushes along the trail.  It takes them a few weeks to die from it, but I find them in the woods, no signs of attack on them but quite wasted.  Probably also worse than a bullet..

Another scary death is by coyote.  They go after the smaller ones, usually less than a year old. 

Cougars are quite adept at it too, size doesn't matter so much to them.

Anyway, the point is that deer live for a short time and it's very very rare for one to die quickly and pain free.  It's just the way it is to be a deer. 

I wouldn't feel too bad about not finding that deer.  It actually may recover and go on to tell it's buddies to stay away from cars... heh heh.  If it got away so fast, it may not have been fatally injured.  Whistles on the car will not tell it much other than there's a whistling object coming your way at 60mph.  Deer don't necessarily reason that whistling means "get off the road," it's just annoying and they could run any direction. 

I use the honking technique myself.  It does seem to scare the bejesus out of them enough to overcome the headlights paralysis.  The worst people in the world are the ones who stop in the middle of the road and wait patiently for the deer to cross.  The deer then are trained to believe there's no danger from cars.  Well meaning people, but bad for wildlife.

I'm not sure I believe people who think they know more about animals and suffering than hunters do.  As if hunters don't care for the animals they've killed.  Some Native American spiritual education is in order for these folks.  The buffalo and elk ran from the indians, it wasn't consentual.  Yet, the indians respected and held the wildlife in a high position.  One may consider it primitive, but it's been around tens of thousands of years longer than our modern day, touchy feely, movie driven (starting with Bambi), belief that animals are self aware the same as we are.  Just not so. 

There are other examples.  I went to Argentina to climb in the Andes.  The beast of burden is the mule.  Mules live a very very hard life in the Andes.  Yet, without the Andes and hard life, there would be no need for the mules and they would have no life.  The mule is treasured as one of the most important historic figures in the history of the country and respected for the incredible amount they do.  I felt sorry for the mules, but they are mules and that's their life.  Who am I to say they are living the wrong life?

Regarding pigs.  Most people in the world (especially the 3rd world) eat pork, and lots of it.  What should they eat instead?  (also see above on "mules").

Animals are probably the most important part of my spiritual life.  Anyone have any owl stories?  Now there is a spiritual being.  (no, I don't eat them!)


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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #26 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 3:27pm
 
This is in danger of veering off topic (or maybe not...it involves reducing suffering)...

Bud_S - I've had to finish off several deer that either I or someone else hit...I shoe horses, so I've usually got a heavy hammer in the car, and a blow to the head (make an imaginary cross from ear to eye, ear to eye, and strike in the center of it) is vastly kinder than letting them die slowly (though I don't blame you for not using the knife - I've killed a large animal with a knife, and it's very hard and not very safe).  They just sort of relax, you can almost feel them projecting "Thank you".  Not my preferred way to spend the afternoon, but sometimes you do what you've got to do.

And hopefully all that typing is wasted, because you'll never get stuck in that situation again!
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Justin2710
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #27 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 3:36pm
 
 Bud S, wrote, Quote:
"Regarding pigs.  Most people in the world (especially the 3rd world) eat pork, and lots of it.  What should they eat instead?  (also see above on "mules")."



 Maybe Corporate CEO's (many american ones) and World Bankers who are the ones who put them in the 3rd world situation to begin with?

 Lol am very much J/K!  But....
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Re: Tragic events in C1 - random events or lessons
Reply #28 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 3:46pm
 
Ok Bud, I admit that this has nothing to do with the afterlife, but here goes:

OWL STORY:

My neighbor has some small dogs.  One morning, she watched in horror as a Great Horned Owl zoomed in on her dog, clamped down on it with its talons, and was about to try and lift it in flight.   The dog's  horrified owner charged the owl, thinking it would fly away, but instead, it turned and lunged at her, stopping her dead in her tracks.   Then it thought better of its attack and flew away.   The dog survived. 

COYOTE STORY:

A personal friend, Kathy, was a sickly woman on crutches with a hot temper.   She loved her stray cat Katie.   One night, she heard Katie cry out on the porch where she was sleeping.  Kathy rushed to the door and saw Katie struggling to free its rump from the jaws o a young coyote.   With an adrenalin rush, Kathy charged the coyote and hit it as hard as she could with a crutch.    The coyote leapt a few feet away and seemed to be deciding whether or not to attack.   Undaunted, Kathy charged it again with her crutch and it rushed to the side of Kathy's yard with her in hot pursuit.   At the edge of her yard next to some woods, she encountered 3 larger coyotes snarling and poised to attack.   The coyotes were apparently giving junior a hunting lesson.  Faced with this snarling, a terrified Kathy raced back to her house.  Katie was saved and the coyotes left.  Curiously, an hour later she saw a large deer in the same spot in her yard where the coyotes had been lurking.   

Don
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B-dawg
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About the morality of hunting...
Reply #29 - Nov 28th, 2005 at 5:55pm
 
Some of you here won't like this, BUT...
I would say to take a wild animal (say a deer)
with as carefully placed a shot as you can
muster, is morally superior to buying meat
(especially pork!) in a supermarket.
Call this a rationalization if you please... but if
the deer is killed
swiftly and (relatively painlessly) by bullet, is
this not preferable to the HORRIBLE death it
would face by wolves, or coyotes (predators
of the dog family are arguably the very worst
creatures to be killed by... they inexorably run
you down, disembowel you and typically
proceed to eat you before you're done dying..!)
Not to mention, the slow starvation that the deer will typically face if it lives to old age without being taken by a hunter or predator. (True evidence of a loving "God", eh???)
As for the supermarket... well, I've mentioned
the suffering gone through by today's factory-
raised pigs (or feedlot cattle for that matter.)
To believe oneself absolved of responsibility
by not doing the killing yourself... is this not
tantamount to saying you are not responsible
for a murder, because you hired a hitman to do
the "dirty work" for you?
I have nothing against conscientous vegetarianism,
although I can honestly say it is not for me, at this
point in my life. But I can also say with honesty,
that I can eat venison (which I took myself) with
a cleaner conscience than I can eat a McDonald's
"McRibwich" (think that's what it's called, I haven't eaten at a McDonald's in about 7 years... or how about a greasy, fatty Big Mac made from the flesh of some poor steer who died (in terror) in a slaughterhouse anywhere from six months to five years previously..!)
Hmmm, Ronald McDonald, Hamburglar, and Grimace... a new "Axis of Evil?"

B-man
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