Conversation Board - Brutally Murdered Victims

Bethany

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Brutally Murdered Victims
Nov 8^th, 2005 at 11:29am

Ever since the Laura Hobbs-Krystal Tobias murder took place, it's been on my mind about 80% of my free time. I find myself daydreaming about how horrrible the deaths were. To sum it up, Laura's father became angry with her for stealing $40 from her mom's purse, and beat and stabbed her and Krystal to death in an Illinois park. I would really like to know what kind of Afterlife a murdered child or adult would experience if they were without religion and/or sacramental healing.

Thanks,
Bethany

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recoverer Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 5027 Gender:	Re: Brutally Murdered Victims Reply #1 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 1:13pm What does sacramental healing mean?
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Bethany Ex Member	Re: Brutally Murdered Victims Reply #2 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 2:02pm Hi recoverer, Sacramental healing means receiving an important sacrament before death, like anointment. These are required for you to be fully saved. Bethany
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Touching Souls

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #3 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 2:31pm

Bethany, you must be a church goer, steeped in the church's teachings. When I was at Luther Jr. College, Wahoo, NE for a year, we had to take a Christianity class. One of the theology students asked the teacher who was the president of the college, about babies dying before being baptized. He said it wasn't fair that they wouldn't go to heaven. The teacher got so mad he threw down his bible.

This got me to thinking. How can a loving God send a baby to hell if he/she hasn't been baptized.

That is when I started questioning.

The truth is that no one is denied the afterlife. It is for all. The murdered girls you talked about would have been met by Helpers, Guides, Angels, etc., who would have taken them to a higher level of the afterlife.

Put your fears aside. All is well, all is always well.

With Love, Mairlyn Wink

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I AM THAT I AM -- WE ARE ALL ONE -- TOUCHING SOULS

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recoverer

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #4 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 2:39pm

On the one hand you have God, who has infinite love and wisdom.

You also have Jesus Christ, who also represents infinite love and wisdom.

Why would such perfect beings require good hearted and well meaning spirits to be damned for all of eternity, simply because they don't believe in a particular ritual, or because their minds don't believe in a particular belief system?

Until a person can provide an illuminating answer to my question, without referring to a scripture that simply repeats the law, rather than providing an illuminating answer, I will never, ever, view God and Jesus Christ in such a limiting and unloving way.

I don't believe that God and Jesus Christ feel personally insulted with the things that people say. But if there was anything that would be insulting to them, it is the insinuations that they are like ruthless dictators who punish good hearted and loving people, simply because they haven't come to believe in a particular way.

If anything they realize that souls take time to evolve, and therefore would lovingly allow them the time to do so.

I feel that God is the most loving and patient parent there is. Not a merciless being with a whip at the ready.

Quote:

Hi recoverer,

Sacramental healing means receiving an important sacrament before death, like anointment. These are required for you to be fully saved.

Bethany

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hiorta

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Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #5 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 3:33pm

The afterlife is a birthright - no preconditions or beliefs required. All Life is eternal. No heaven and no hell.

Our status in the Afterlife depends entirely on ourselves.

God / the Source/ the Supreme or the Whatever is above all.

Jesus Christ never existed and is made to represent whatever various theologians decree.

If we try to live as helpfully and honourably as possible (we ARE imperfect humans), then we will have achieved all that could reasonably be expected of us.

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Touching Souls Super Member Offline LOVE IS ALL, SHINE YOUR LIGHT THAT OTHERS MAY SEE Posts: 1966 Metaline Falls, WA Gender:	Re: Brutally Murdered Victims Reply #6 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 4:20pm Quote: Jesus Christ never existed and is made to represent whatever various theologians decree I must disagree. Yeshua definitely existed and still exists. He is with me constantly and available to all who wish to communicate with him. Much Love, Mairlyn
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recoverer

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #7 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 4:21pm

Nice post Marilyn.

Quote:

Bethany, you must be a church goer, steeped in the church's teachings. When I was at Luther Jr. College, Wahoo, NE for a year, we had to take a Christianity class. One of the theology students asked the teacher who was the president of the college, about babies dying before being baptized. He said it wasn't fair that they wouldn't go to heaven. The teacher got so mad he threw down his bible.

This got me to thinking. How can a loving God send a baby to hell if he/she hasn't been baptized.

That is when I started questioning.

The truth is that no one is denied the afterlife. It is for all. The murdered girls you talked about would have been met by Helpers, Guides, Angels, etc., who would have taken them to a higher level of the afterlife.

Put your fears aside. All is well, all is always well.

With Love, Mairlyn Wink

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #8 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 8:09pm

Hi Bethany-
What peopl have told me about past lives is that when they get murdered they go into the light and feel comforted. Then, if they stay enraged they adopt lives that are full of karmic residues and defenses etc. If they can forgive, they take on lives that help others find peace as well.

Those wh are not properly sanctified for their church often don't go to the same place as the sanctified ones, because they don't happen to feel as if they belong to that club. That's not a matter of not going to a nice place, but more like going to the West side of town where ritual means little, while the others go to the East side, where they engage in more ritualistic activities. Once in a while a soul gets stuck because of fear of going to hell, which is just like getting stuck any other way, but that's what the soul retrieval ideais all about.

In general, it seems that we get what we expect.

dave

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life is too short to drink sour wine

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B-dawg

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #9 - Nov 8^th, 2005 at 10:46pm

Bethany...
Roman Catholicism (which is the doctrine I assume you are referring to) is a man-made religion cobbled together out of selected Bible texts (many of which were altered or re-written!) at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. at the behest of Emperor Constantine "The Great" (more like Emperor Constantine "The Murderous Thug" who had at least four family members executed - including his own son, Crispus - for political reasons.)
The 100+ bishops at this "Great" Council decided matters of theology by VOTE (geez, who'da guessed that matters of spiritual truth are DEMOCRATICALLY decided?)
To please the populace of Rome, a Judeo-Christian whitewash was applied to the old Roman pagan religion. Not the similarites between "Venus" and the "Virgin Mary." Or how about "Easter", the name of which comes from "Astarte" - the Babylonian fertility goddess, identified with the Roman Venus - and the rest is history. And there's more, my child... MUCH more.
I swear this is all true... do a google on it!!!
To top it off... Catholic "heaven" doesn't sound much better than Catholic "hell." Everybody standing in RANKS (at "parade rest" I presume?) in circles around "God"? UGH. (Me, I'd prefer the Sumerian "dark dusty underground cave" or the Aztec "Mictlan" to either of 'em, and THAT'S saying quite a bit...)

B-man

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roger prettyman

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #10 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 2:47am

Bethany said above,

" Sacramental healing means receiving an important sacrament before death, like anointment. These are required for you to be fully saved."

Who says and if so, where does it say that?

I know in the Catholic church the Last Rites are given to a dying person. What if the opportunity for that doesn`t arise when, for example, someone dies from a heart attack? Does that mean their soul/spirit isn`t saved even though they might have led a very good life?

I think not!

Yet again, I find myself concurring with what Marilyn says too.

roger

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The past is history, the future is a mystery.&&Today is a gift, that`s why it`s called the present.&&Let yourself enjoy today. It will never come again.&&&&&&Butterfly.

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recoverer

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #11 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 9:59am

Dave_a_mbs:

The below makes sense to me. By people telling you about past lives, does this mean that you do past life hypnotherapy? If you do, does what you have found match up with what Michael Newton has found? I don't know if you've read his books.

Quote:

Hi Bethany-
What peopl have told me about past lives is that when they get murdered they go into the light and feel comforted. Then, if they stay enraged they adopt lives that are full of karmic residues and defenses etc. If they can forgive, they take on lives that help others find peace as well.

Those wh are not properly sanctified for their church often don't go to the same place as the sanctified ones, because they don't happen to feel as if they belong to that club. That's not a matter of not going to a nice place, but more like going to the West side of town where ritual means little, while the others go to the East side, where they engage in more ritualistic activities. Once in a while a soul gets stuck because of fear of going to hell, which is just like getting stuck any other way, but that's what the soul retrieval ideais all about.

In general, it seems that we get what we expect.

dave

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mystic_dreamer

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #12 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 1:53pm

This is something that I don't understand...I guess it was of those contradictions of the Bible that have always bugged me.
On one hand it is said that one needs to be baptised before they can enter in Heaven.....babies and all. Yet, I am sure that the Bible also says somewhere that children are automatically sent to Heaven, as the children of God....they can know no sin.
Can someone straighten me out on this?

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recoverer

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #13 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 3:39pm

Mystic Dreamer:

The below is from Leviticus (Moses). Does it make sense? Does it seem like it should apply today? If you read the rest of Levitcus, you'll find that the below type of language doesn't stand alone. It just doesn't make sense.

If a person is sincere in heart when it comes to coming closer to God, I don't believe that they have to allow fear of damnation to force them to believe scripture such as the below. Afterall, can't God see within our hearts?

Also consider how translation issues and political/control issues came into play, when chapters for the Bible were chosen.

Chapter 12
1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying:

2 Speak to the children of Israel, and thou shalt say to them: If a woman having received seed shall bear a man child, she shall be unclean seven days, according to the days of the separation of her flowers.

3 And on the eighth day the infant shall be circumcised:

4 But she shall remain three and thirty days in the blood of her purification. She shall touch no holy thing, neither shall she enter into the sanctuary, until tile days of her purification be fulfilled.

5 But if she shall bear a maid child, she shall be unclean two weeks, according to the custom of her monthly courses, and she shall remain in the blood of her purification sixty-six days.

6 And when the days of her purification are expired, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring to the door of the tabernacle of the testimony, a lamb of a year old for a holocaust, and a young pigeon or a turtle for sin, and shall deliver them to the priest:

7 Who shall offer them before the Lord, and shall pray for her, and so she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that beareth a man child or a maid child.

8 And if her hand find not sufficiency, and she is not able to offer a lamb, she shall take two turtles, or two young pigeons, one for a holocaust, and another for sin: and the priest shall pray for her, and so she shall be cleansed.

http://www.theworkofgod.org/Bible/OldTestm/Levitics.htm

Quote:

This is something that I don't understand...I guess it was of those contradictions of the Bible that have always bugged me.
On one hand it is said that one needs to be baptised before they can enter in Heaven.....babies and all. Yet, I am sure that the Bible also says somewhere that children are automatically sent to Heaven, as the children of God....they can know no sin.
Can someone straighten me out on this?

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Rob_Roy

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Re: Brutally Murdered Victims
Reply #14 - Nov 9^th, 2005 at 6:56pm

The Catholic Church does not teach that those, including and maybe especially babies, who have not been baptized are going to hell.

We don't know why the bishops at the Council of Nicea (or other councils) voted the way they did. Their spiritual descendants claim they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Who knows. I think it's more likely they were inspired by their guides who have the higher good in mind and the long term view for purposes that can only end in Pure Unconditional Love.

If you doubt that a true believing Catholic can achieve or at least come to an understanding of PUL, I suggest you read the Author's Note and first couple of chapters of Thomas Merton's No Man Is An Island.

My suggestion when reading any kind of scripture is to view it through the lens of PUL. If what you read helps you towards PUL, fine. If it doesn't, and especially if it induces fear, then toss it. Quite simple, really. The Bible is a mix of both. While it didn't just fall out of the sky as some people must believe judging by their behavior and the way they venerate/worship it, it's far from worthless.

I don't think these major belief systems would continue as they have been for so long if they didn't serve a higher purpose, that purpose being PUL.

Dear Fundamentalists of any variety:

God is not a psychopath/sociopath and Jesus has a perfect sense of humor. Also, please read 1 Corinthians chap. 13 for an adequate description of PUL. And if you think the people on this board are evil, then please read chap. 12 as well, esp. verse 10.

As for the person who incarnated as the Virgin Mary, I blew her off my whole life and doubted her and especially the cult surrounding her, until I had a lucid dream where she came to me while I was in Iraq and gave me my first experience of infused PUL. Hail Mary, full of PUL!

Bob

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