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A proposal about TIME (Read 13175 times)

Tayo

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #15 - Oct 21^st, 2005 at 2:35pm

I haven't finished reading the whole thread, otherwise I would've lost the idea, so I might be repeating someone else here, but here it goes...

If we believe that:

A. We are probes of our higher self thrown into earth.

B. There is no such thing as time up there, as we have discussed before.

Then the higher self can't perceive the meaning of time as we humans see it. So it might just be that only we, as probes (as humans, or the whole line of pictures as Kardec puts it) can percieve this sense of time on earth because that is what we are enclosed to in our limited bodily senses.

Time is the white paper. The pictures are the lessons we learn. We are the whole strip of pictures or maybe the cardboard to which the pictures are glued to. I know, it's hard to explain. Maybe I should stop.

Love,
C:>

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spooky2

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #16 - Oct 21^st, 2005 at 4:37pm

Hi people,
there is too much easyness in using the term "free will" I think. Free will is by definition the independence of will, otherwise it would be dependent on something and no longer be free. Now, let's think about someone who does something with free will. That would mean, without cause (independence) which means, too, without reason. Doing things without a cause/reason is absolute senseless. You may say this is only concerning linear time, and the truth is there is no linear time and it's only our limited perception? So, if there is NO time, free will cannot be applied. In no-time nothing works which we are common with. In no-time there is no evolution. Yes, it would mean, it's all done. Can we lay back then? The old questions are not solved!
(Btw Matthew, your example with the random-experiment-notes changed time-backwards is not an example for free will, could be all pretty in a cause-effect line, or planned)
And, is time made of digits (like in the example Kardec brought up, the movie metaphor) or continous?
"In reality": When we will be in afterlife one day and we have a look at what it is about with time and space etc. and we think we've got it, there always can one come around and tell us: "Well, that's only what you perceive, but your perception is limited. In reality, things are different." As long as we can perceive, we can never be sure what's behind. There is ever a behind. This only stops when we stop perceiving, because it means we no longer have a viewpoint, no longer the division of "here, me" visa "there, not me, what I'm perceiving" (and no self-perceiving/introspection too!). Only then, finally, there is no longer a "true reality behind" our perceptions.
For me, time does exist. I experience it every day. I can't discount what I am experiencing every day, this would be just shallow talk. This is of course, I believe in my perceptions. It's the only thing I got. If I would have another viewpoint, I may have different perceptions, so I will believe them. And I believe what some people here told, to see the future, it's obviously possible. But to have a look in the future you need that there is something to call future.
To change the past without affecting the present would mean that the present is independent from the past. That would mean, Kardec's picture would fit, single, divided moments (which can be changed) would be the time stuff. But what about the connection then? Cause and effect? Something must bind it together! Or we will get a mess of pictures with no sense. And every picture is a trap. No movement. No time in this single picture. And, what about the observer of the pictures/movie? Is the observer in time? A super-time? If not, how can the observer change anything? Would be a frozen moment!
I sometimes wonder when I hear people say they had meditated and were in a no-time-zone telling like this: "...THEN I came there, all frozen and calm...THEN I could see this and that...THEN I could move in time..."--not very convincing for me. Time is still there for the experiencer, so it's just a different perception of time within time.

So, my conclusion is "What you cannot talk about, you must silence about". I think I cannot longer talk about it!

Bye, Spooky

"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

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LaffingRain

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #17 - Oct 21^st, 2005 at 7:53pm

Spooky

I feel your frustration. maybe I just share something if I can, not to worry you.

the movement of time is relative to each. some times I wonder what year is this? so u see time is psychological. basically we should start from a common premise. which I assume everyone has a calendar and a watch. but only here we use those. I see the two worlds we explore as one, but when I am physical there is a slow down of vibration.
as analogy, I look to the fan, and the blades are moving so fast, I can see through the fan to the other side, but if I turn the power off, the blades are obstructing my view to the other side, so I see that we dive into matter as spirit, then we cannot fly within time like a bird,but we have two feet and walk around and it is slowed down movement.
this makes me think why am I alive in physical when I could be a bird and fly? because I am in a thing called time now, and I wanted to be here, as here, in time, we can actually accomplish something different to be so solid, to have a body is great gift as a chance for to slip one more life into the bag, chock full of living, loving and exploring ways to get out of it..maybe..hee hee. or ways to stay in time, in physical, good thing also. btw, I did read the other side has order, even if no clocks, they just "know" when to be within a certain level where a lecture is going on, or whatever else they do over there, which i suspect they be living much the same as here, simply speeded up type living, yet naturalness within that.
yes, I saw my own future planned out 16 months before unfoldment, confused me badly. but only made me feel good, to know I should not be needlessly worrying if I saw something positive in the least. and if I saw something negative, I could be ready to deal with it then, to complete my choices how to react.
blessings to you..you know what I think of you already as very wise and loving. love, alysia

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

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spooky2

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #18 - Oct 22^nd, 2005 at 6:22am

Hi Alysia,
thank you!
A story about a different time-perception:
I once had a car crash, my friend was the driver and I was on the passenger seat. He wanted to pass a car before us, and while doing it we came off the street to the left and we crashed against a tree. The car was totally crushed, but we had nothing (except wet feet when we got out of the car and stepped in the ditch the car was in). It was a matter of seconds. My friend couldn't remember what what had happened. But I could. For me, the moment we were aside the other car, time started to lengthen into minutes while it must be only seconds. All did slow down. We came off the road to the left, more and more, slowly, I knew what's gonna happen but couldn't do anything like you watch a movie. I only felt I bent a little to the right in an automatic reaction. When we hit the tree it was not hard, it was soo soft! After a quiet moment I was back in the usual time perception.
This example of course is not problematic, it's just linear time with a perception of higher resolution.
Bye, Spooky

"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

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LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: A proposal about TIME Reply #19 - Oct 22^nd, 2005 at 7:52pm yes maybe the example not problematic but still I like your contribution. I have found some stuff today about time, space, and motion and have been working on it all day, with thinking of your post for my inspiration. appreciate your presense here. love, alysia
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dave_a_mbs

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #20 - Oct 23^rd, 2005 at 8:32pm

Hi Kardec-
I have flickering fluorescent in my office that chops up my day into little event frames, pictures, that follow the worldline of my daily activities. If we look a little closer, at the subatomic level, we discover that quantum mechanical processes similarly chop up everything. At the smallest level, the interval is about 10^(-44) seconds, one Planck interval.

One day in the past I experimented with salvia divinorum, the sacred divination plant of shamans (something I do NOT suggest for others - it was painful) and discovered that I was sitting in a coil of event frames that followed a collectively spiralling curve around me. I could have jumped into one of the other frames, but something suggested that that was a bad idea.

The perspective of being able to see these frames in your mind, like little 3-d pictures alllined up, simpply means that you have removed your mind from their 3-space into a higher dimensionality, at least a 4-space.

One of the confusing things is that we view time as a dimension, which is not true, although time involved in processual sequences can be used to calculate the change of dimensions. Time is a vector operator for processual displacement, the difference between starting and completing a single instant of manifestation of your reality. To recognize your lifeline as a sequence of discrete instants means that your awareness is becoming less attached to everyday stuf, and thus is free to see with a new and greater perspective.

dave

life is too short to drink sour wine

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LaffingRain

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #21 - Oct 24^th, 2005 at 12:22am

thanks Dave, I was thinking about asking for you help on this thread, and guess I'm just as phychic as can be as here you are...well, the shaman plant..I don't know..good thing you didn't go into another place; reminds me of the movie "the fly".
__

well heres the glossary terms to a book called The Unobstructed Universe by Stewart White. I read this at 13 and still scratching me head over it. my comments are interjected as I tried to relate..

CONSCIOUSNESS:The one and all-inclusive reality, in evolution. Man's self-awareness is the highest expression of this reality
____
ORTHOS (Greek, ortbos: true.) The operation of consciousness, through co-existent essences, in its unobstructed aspect
______
the good thing about the afterlife is they usually don’t get into car crashes as all is energy so its an unobstructed universe btw, occassionally, we slip into another dimension and can go right through solid objects, but this is very rare, still noteworthy in our comparisons to make.
_________
ORTHIC:Adjective. Pertaining to orthos
________
UNIVERSE:The total of all manifestations of consciousness
_______

OBSTRUCTED UNIVERSE: That aspect of the whole universe which man knows through his senses, including their mechanical extensions
_______
UNOBSTRUCTED UNIVERSE: That aspect of the entire universe ordinarily considered to be beyond the limitation of man's sense perceptions and their extensions
_________
focus levels; by jove!
______
TRILOGIA:The threefold aspect of orthos, consisting of receptivity, conductivity, and frequency
__________
read carefully the description of the trilogia coming up
_______
ESSENCE: (Latin, esse: to be.) The co-existent and coefficient actuality of orthos, manifesting itself in the obstructed universe as Time, Space and Motion
________
RECEPTIVITY=The Essence of Time

CONDUCTIVITY= The Essence of Space

FREQUENCY= The Essence of Motion

TIME. The obstructed manifestation of the orthic essence, receptivity
______

SPACE:The obstructed manifestation of the orthic essence, conductivity
________
MOTION:The obstructed manifestation of the orthic essence, frequency
______

ARRESTMENT:An incidence of frequency, conductivity and receptivity, resulting in manifestation in the obstructed universe
_____
one time I was arrested. sorry for interrupting!
______

DEGREE:Consciousness, being in evolution, is in degrees. Each degree represents a specific manifestation
_____
QUALITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS: That aspect of consciousness resulting in species manifestation, as electricity, gold, tree, antelope, man, etc. In the unobstructed universe Quality is in evolution, and therefore in degrees. In the obstructed universe it is of fixed potentiality in its given degree
________
QUANTITY OF CONSCIOUSNESS: That aspect of consciousness, in the obstructed universe, capable of, and subject to development by the individual, in evolution and therefore in degrees
_______
this may be saying ‘how much’ experience have you gathered? for if taking up thought is somewhat a nomenclature, evolution within degree is not?
_____
MATTER:In the obstructed universe matter is that arrestment of frequency which manifests itself in a threedimensional extension; in the unobstructed universe it is the form attribute of any aspect of the trilogia
______
MATERIAL FORCES: Those arrestments of frequency expressing themselves through matter
______
storms, hurricanes, nature, earthquakes,the elements, a function of our collective creations.
______
AWARENESS-MECHANISM:That equipment of selfaware consciousness whereby the individual perceives that which is objective to him
_______
PARALLEL LAW: The term connotes the interextension of principles operating in both the obstructed and unobstructed universes
_______
BETA BODY: The form attribute of that frequency which is an individual consciousness, an I-Am. It is integral, atomic and noncellular
________
ALPHA BODY: The form attribute of a combination of frequencies, constituting the physical housing in the obstructed universe of an individual consciousness. Such as the human body.
______
PLURALISTIC MONISM: Connotes, one reality expressing itself in individualization, alike in kind but different in manifestation
______
this may be comparing peas and corn, both are vegetables but manifesting with different properties.
_____
JUXTAPOSITION:The manner in which frequency (motion) variably collides with receptivity (time) and conductivity (space) to result in an arrestment, producing manifestation
_______
some day I will read this book again when I’m in the right head space. I think it will give us a very good feel for being out of body as well as being dead physically. Spooky, this is what I am studying right now. wish me luck!

love, alysia

« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2005 at 11:32am by LaffingRain »

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #22 - Oct 24^th, 2005 at 3:42pm

Hi Alysia-
White's Unobstructed Universe was one of my favorites. I recall that it points out two interesting things - here in the everyday world of individual existences we define reality according to walls and barriers, while in the more general sense of the totality of all existence, there is ultimately only oneness in which the obstructions are not used. (Actually, lower astral seems to be a sort of halfway level). Following this thread, spiritual advancement seems to have something to do with the degree that we can bring an unobstructed existence, or perhaps awareness, into the everyday world.

As an example, we seem to have some sort of gratuitous psychic linkage, what with houses selling and suchlike. This is certainly not because we set out to "do something", but rather it seems to be a result of not needing to do anything. It's just there.

d

life is too short to drink sour wine

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LaffingRain Super Member Offline Choose this Day Posts: 5249 Arizona Gender:	Re: A proposal about TIME Reply #23 - Oct 24^th, 2005 at 4:43pm thanks Dave. u are talking about sychronicity, which another author got me excited about, name of Atwater, had NDE's a plenty. ah, yes, would be nice to experience a need to do nothing at all... soon...now...hmmm. thanks again.
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egdio7

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #24 - Oct 25^th, 2005 at 9:39pm

i've heard people talk about the veil thinning the older one gets... In reference to having closer connections to the spirit world and better chances for OBE. Could this thinning veil theory also apply to the perception (or illusion) of time. Ask anyone over thirty five and they will tell you the years fly by faster the older they get.

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Tayo

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #25 - Oct 25^th, 2005 at 11:03pm

Hey Spooky, I didn't mean to piss you off with my rambling. I was just having a brainstorm there, playful thoughts. I am really not certain of the meaning of time, besides what we know as minutes, hours, etc. We could feel timeless at some point, may it be in dreams, right here in C1, or what not. I remember Alysia typed this once in here "anything happens that can happen"... and well... i dont know... you never know.

Quote:

So, my conclusion is "What you cannot talk about, you must silence about". I think I cannot longer talk about it!

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Simon

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #26 - Oct 26^th, 2005 at 4:51pm

Quote:

Imagine:

(A) There is that sequence of photos of a person’s life, they are all in line. The first one is that person’s birth and the last one is that person's funeral.

(B) You have a peace of paper cut as a little window that fits exactly a single photo size, and it can slide along the line of photos from the begin to the end of it.

(C) So as long as you move this little window along the line of photos you can see each moment of this person's life one at a time.

Let’s consider

(A)= Past, present and future can be happening at once they're only different pictures of the same “line”. (future already exists)
(B)= The piece of paper cut as little windows is our C1 consciousness.
(C)The photo where the little windows is stopped over at this moment we could call PRESENT.

So let’s imagine that we were able to throw the little paper window away and got an entire line of picture’s view. We would be aware of all the line of photos. (past/present/future)

Conclusion:

Moving our consciousness focus could mean changing the position of our little window from the point it is now from a point ahead (for instance) in the line of photos of the existence.

So it would be possible to see the future once it’s happening just now. We only have to change our focus. (our mind is all along it but our focus is not)

Am I nuts ???????

Words are a thing to me, could not help but stumble over your peace of card, then piece of paper. Some slip made me think sideways! looking through peace at the current point of my time. hmm. tis quiet around here at least.

PeaceLoveEmpathy
Si

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LaffingRain

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #27 - Oct 27^th, 2005 at 3:59pm

Kardek, you are describing C1 consciousness really well.
the focus part as concerning what time is. is true my opinion. words are difficult.
many times to explore within dream or obe, I notice ability of mind to focus. then I feel like I am a camera lens to zoom in. swish! it's fun. also my eyesight is a focus point the same here in C1. but what are my eyes? I am really only mind that learns to focus in on one portion of all that is.

thank you! love, alysia

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egdio7

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #28 - Oct 27^th, 2005 at 10:45pm

The two elements that I believe make up our time illusion are distance and speed. For some strange reason we seem to perceive or associate distance with time. For example, lets examine our perception of a "time span" from 1930 to the now. when we think about or see an event from 1930, it could be an old move, a book, or a faded memory. We think of it as being far away with much distance. This distance does not exist. All that has real changed for us from 1930 is that a lot of stuff or matter moved around. Next we have to look at the speed at which this "stuff" or matter moved. Our unit of measure is the movement of our earth (example - one turn=24 hours). From there we relate this measurement to our own biological clocks, example - 1 hour feels like one hour. And by-the-way 1 hour feels different all the time, when we sleep, when we are bored, when we are having a good time. My point is, the instrument (biological clock or physical body) we have to measure the speed of matter movement is... for lack of a better word, a joke. All the movement of events from the past 10,000 years could happen in an instant, if viewed from other perspectives or dimension. My conclusion is I have to through out distance and the unmeasureable speed out of the time equation. This puts all earth events very close together or simultanious and makes your time illusion theory very possibly.

Love to hear what you guys think, I'm sure my theory is missing something.

By the way, I have been a long time reader here and I have finally registered. A lot of people on this board have given me a great deal of knowledge and insight and I want to thank all of you for that. I hope to give back and share some of my experiences with you all in the near future.

« Last Edit: Oct 29^th, 2005 at 8:31am by egdio7 »

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Kardec

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Re: A proposal about TIME
Reply #29 - Oct 28^th, 2005 at 4:00am

Quote:

The two elements that I believe make up our time illusion are distance and speed. . All the movement of events from the past 10,000 years could happen in an instant, if viewed from other perspectives or dimension.

Interesting Point of View…

I know it's hard to explain. Sometimes it's easier to feel than to explain. But I think you got some details that we’ve lost. I think this is the main goal here if we are little pieces from the greater whole the truth is spread in little parts within each one of us.

Thank you for joining us. Be welcome

My hope is to get there whatever does "there" mean...

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