I rest my case. *shrug*

Sasuke,

      Relax. Message boards and email have always been a problem for me because I come across a lot stronger than I do in person, unless I'm pissed.

      I backed a priest into a corner with my questions when  I was sixteen. That's when my search began. You are, in a limited sense, way ahead me at the same age by just being on this board. But don't let it go to your head. Your life lessons will still come, and some of them WILL break you, if you're hard headed like me and you aren't easily guided (that has definately changed!).

Justin,

      I think if soul retrievers were uncharitable, they wouldn't be doing that service, especially those who do it consciously. I do them in my sleep, and I attract lot of them that I see and otherwise sense while awake, with my energy (but not deliberately in my C1 awareness, not yet). I certainly am not filled with PUL, BUT I desire to be. That seems to be enough.

      I don't think anything should be taken away from those who do this. For those who do it on purpose, it says a great deal about them.

The *original* problem is lack of PUL, lack of evolution, and lack of experience. C1 experience helps us. Correct me if I'm wrong?


Hiorta,

You obviously have an axe to grind. These kinds of polemics are fallacious, not helpful, and will change few minds, let alone hearts. Been there-done that-doesn't work. I will not engage in them. But if you insist, then work your way through them until you see that only PUL will work with any lasting effect (I'm just learning that one myself, along with a great many other things).

Pax,

Bob

Quote:


 Hi Bob,

 I agree, and i wasn't trying to "take anything away" from people who do this.  Personally, i believe it is very important work...  Perhaps you missed the holistic gist of what i was trying to say?

 Anyways, i think Retreivals are practise for some people to learn how to love others in the PUL manner...  My main point is that people shouldn't get caught up in the ego--psychic attachment part of it...  This goes for anything in life as well.  This can block growth, even if a person constantly does retrievals..because they are not doing them with a spiritual intent or motivation...they're doing them to feel good, or to feel personal pride, "well, i can do retrievals, most don't even know about them.." etc, etc.  I'm just saying that there is a danger of turning a spiritual service into a ego puffing, pride thing.

 I think most are just trying to help others..but i was agreeing with you, i think people need to also concentrate more on helping others in C1 more...these type of retrievals are harder to do on average, and require more patience, PUL, and strength on average..  But these retrievals are also more rewarding, and if our society was more based on spiritual principles to begin with, there wouldn't be a need for all these retrievals....  I wonder how much time Yeshua spent on doing nonphysical retreivals during his life?  I get the sense he was more concerned with getting the PUL out in C1 so it would have a ripple effect on each successively faster vibrating dimension--helping a lot more people in the long run--i.e. future incarnations.  I'm sure he did retreivals too, and the Bible mentions him going through Hell and helping people there.

 I've never been a fan of Western civilization, i think we have made a god of ego and the left brain... I think instead of evolving, i agree with the Hindu Yogis-- we have been in a spiritually dark age of ignorance and selfishness called Kali Yuga (dunno if thats how you spell it?)  but thankfully "the times are a changing" and we are beginning to enter a Golden age due to the Galactic Centers increasing activity and merging with our little ole' back water and ignorant system of misfits and rebels (and many service souls).  I'm optimistic that we will get it right this time around...

And i believe retreivals are an important aspect of this...  There is a saying i like a lot, "In service you will find truth and God".  

Peace

 Hi Bob,

 I know what you mean, and i've gotten a little frustrated in not having any clear visuals, etc. when trying to do retreivals consciously..  I know i do them in my sleep, and i vividly remember doing one that was quite difficult where a whole family was brutally murdered (by the Father or relative), and a couple of the children were stuck...  I think the mother might have been stuck too, cause i kept seeing what had happened, and it was not an easy energy to deal with.

 I need to practise more, and be more consistent in my meditations, and this will help a lot.

 Bob, i very much get the sense that you are meant to do both.  I think some of us (if not all) should be trying to do both, and use whatever gifts we have to get this info out there.  Even if its starting a meditation, or alternative health group.

 I did this not too long ago when living in my Fiance's college dorm (i was kicked out of my house by my grandfather, and was going to be homeless, thankfully Becky showed up).  

 I posted a bunch of flyers, saying something like "Have you ever had the feeling that there was more to life than what science or society teaches, want to talk about the Universe, meditation, astrology, alternative healing, etc."

 And even though the dorm i temporarily lived in was a huge "party dorm" more than a few people showed up weekly, and it was very heartening to my Fiance and I.  I did free charts for people, and they were amazed at how personally accurate they were.  One girl came up to me with a strange look in her eyes and said, "how could you know all this stuff, its like you were looking into my soul."  I told her anyone could do this with enough practise, lovingness, meditation, and discipline.  I was just grateful and appreciative, that i could show people that there truly is another side to life that we don't normally see.  And a awesome benefit was making some really good friends.

 Anything, anything helps, if you are trying to reach out, and if your intentions and motivations are in the right place.

 I wish/see for you all the opportunities you can help with and for personal strength and wisdom Spiritual Warrior.

Peace

 Hi there Sasuke,

btw--nice to meet you, i don't believe we have talked at all.

 My feeling is that some people, like on here, aren't so much fed up with the Church as with an overly dogmatic and conservative attitude that for good reason has been attached to it for its long history.

Yet, the various Churces have made great strides lately, and is moving in the right direction.  If it doesn't, it will not exist anymore.

 And there is the thing to consider, some people need something to get angry about..because of self dislike, and unhappiness.  In psychology, its called "projection" and we all do it to a degree...its just that well... some people do it to a very strong and consistent degree...  And because of its history of bloodiness and corruption, the Church is a easy target for this anger.

 Who cares what others think, when it comes to a personal sense?   I try to disagree with people when i percieve it serves a greater good, for example, if i believe there is an important but little understood concept which could help people/humanity, i might go into lengths about it to clarify the topic.  Yet, i also try to keep in mind that i don't necessarily have the whole entire picture myself--and this is hard to do sometimes because well... human beings aren't very objective and self honest lots of the times--even us spiritually oriented people.

 Sometimes, i get a very strong sense, i quite no what i'm talking about, and i may be very firm about it, yet i try to be respectful though others might not see it that way, because when you disagree with someones beliefs, you are percieved to be directly "attacking" their very self.  As if the True Self could be attacked.

 This is what our friend Yeshua (Jesus) taught in his life, by his life, death, and ressurrection.   That nobody can hurt or attack a Perfect Child of God--he was impervious and overcame all.

 The people plotting against him, thought they "got him good"...Ha the joke was on them, and he showed up to many of them after he was "killed" in bodily form and said "Peace be unto you my brothers."

Wonder if they got the message?