I have noticed very often in this website people who claim not to understand why a soul would decide to go through a painful experience. They say “-How can I understand why a soul would chose die in a earthquake at the age of 3 and so on-“.


Has a Christian spiritist I have learned some premises about Karma. That I believe are true, of course it can’t be easily explained here. But I will try at least start the discussion on the subject.
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Some times we repeat the same mistake for dozen of incarnations so we decided that only a strong experience would make us feel what we need in order to reach what we want.

To explain it I will tell you a story which come by a mediumistic communication:

There was this guy who have had several incarnations in healthy bodies and always made the same mistake, He looked down to all the ones who were near Him and never minded about anybodies pain.
He has hurt His close ones hearts since He can remember.
(strongly simplified story)

Once His guides decided that He would have a new incarnation where He would spend most of His live in a bed under other people care. This way He would have a chance of understand how we need each other and so it was.

Who except the ones directly involved in that spiritual story would understand the importance of that guy disease?

Some time we destroy part of the energetic centers of our astral body due to very strong emotional trauma, for instance through suicidal acts. All along the pregnancy time our emotional and astral body is being under a healing process, so even when a baby is a stillborn the spirit had it’s benefit.

It is a very long story and I’ve studied it for the last 20 years so I woul’d never be able to explain it at a simple thread. Despite that It’s hard to me express complex concepts in English because my knowledge of that language is weak I’ve never been abroad.

So let’s go discuss on this subject.

since this message was directed toward my post regarding three year old girls, let me say this.

I understand the ideas about karmic debt, pre-arranged agreements to incarnate, etc.

To me, it sounds comforting that there is so much order to the higher planes.  Or, is it that we want to believe in?

This is what organized religion wishes to impart - a certainty that there is a reason for everything.  The real universe is much more random - I think.  Yes there is intention, a plan, overall.

I believe that there is no time, in the ever present, and as such, I do not believe in many of the artificial divisions we make vis a vis, self, past self and future self.  The ultimate truth is we are all one, and part of a universal consciousness. 

As such, I do not believe the little children will suffer, but I do not think it is as straightforward as an agreed incarnation and resolution of karmic debt.


Matthew

my belief is the spirit is able to vacate a body long before it's threshold of physical pain is reached.
as well children, we have no idea of their soul age, as you can find some very serious adults to have a 3 yr old body in possession. once met a child like this.

what I was saying my point is spirits possess the capability to withdraw from the body as it is being tossed into the air, say by an accident.

and no matter what age the physical body is; if you don't want or need the pain, not interested in the challenge it represents, you have that decision to leave or stay. but especially if the wee ones are here just a short while they are guided when to leave, the right moment. they may spend what we call time in the astral after that, but to them time does not pass the same way. can seem like 20 years to us, but to them only 20 minutes. we will eventually get everyone retrieved from the astral.

this just my belief, so keep your hat on

Quote:


When you reach the pain threshold you become unconscious.

I dont believe we have a choice to just "leave". You are forgetting the bigger picture, if you choose to leave, then think of the dmg it would do to those close to you.

If you had ever had real physical pain, the challenge becomes meaningless after a time, all you care about if getting rid of the pain.

The only thing that keeps you going is anger/pride and loyalty to your family.

Childbirth though painful has an end within a relatively short amount of time, and it also has a purpose at the end of it.

Where as physical pain which lasts a lifetime, has no point but to make you suffer.

I can quite easily blame others for my own pains, because they were caused to me by doctors over my entire life. They dont deserve forgiveness, they deserve to endure what they put me through. Yet i see no karma dishing out retribution.

People who "choose" unconsciously to end there life, must not have any guides watching out for them, or they would have never let it happen. My mum works with terminally ill cancer paitents, and giving yourself a disease which eats away half your face, and doctors have to take away your tongue your eyeball and half your cheek, is worse then living 5 lifetimes over.

It's true in alot of case's your will can make you live longer or shorter then predicted, back to cancer, butchers (aka doctors), tell someone they have 2 weeks to live, there dead by the next morning. Someone who believes in themselves will live for months maybe years longer then the butchers say.

Physical pain, overides all emotional pain, when endured over time. Plus physical pain often leads to emotional pain, were as emotional pain does'nt give rise to physical pain.

Although it does'nt matter how much pain im/your in theres always someone worse off then you/me. I saw a guy whos skin falls off, his hands had fused together, he could'nt walk, he could'nt do anything for himself, his farther disowned him, His mother hated him. He was in great physical pain everyday for 36 years, until the day he died from cancer.

That kinda of pain, is just so pointless, it cannot server any purpose then to be a punishment.

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What about those who never "choose" to suffer?, yet have it placed upon them by others. such as a drunk driver paralysing someone.

I would not believe anyone would choose to have a life where there skin falls off. Unless they were not aware of what kind of existance they would be letting themselves in for.

The problem, Dear Marilyn is in the uncertainty.  I believe that it is possible that we choose to incarnate.  That we see a "gestalt" of a life, but I'd be surprised if we could know many of the details about the life before we've lived it.  Of course, there is no way to be sure of this unless we can have meaninful conversations with the deceased who have done this, and have the whole process verified.

Free will is there, yes.  But certainty?  I'm not so sure.  The nature of the earth plain of existence is change, and uncertainty.

Love

Matthew

I find it extremely difficult to believe people would paralyse themselves etc, unless they did not understand what they were getting themselves into.

An earthquake happens, did 30,000 people choose to be there and die when it occured? was that the purpose of there life? or was it a meaningless waste?, what can be learned from dieing in an earthquake? in my oppinion nothing except dont live in earthquake prone area's.

Did hitler and the jews having a meeting before coming to earth? I shall kill as many of you as possible so i can learn, that it's not really useful to do so?

I just think theres far to many variables to be calculated to allow someone to live a life planned out.

Though your views, would be consistent with a buddist teaching i once heard, "Every mans life, Concerns every other man".

Though i still believe guides screw up from time to time, or they dont exist. Either way, theres little postive/good that a lifetime of physical suffering can produce.