Lucy,

"It is hard to resist asking what you might be doing abut this? in the spirit of Robin Hood/MacGregor/Pretty Boy Floyd, of course!"

Increasing my self-knowledge, lucidity, and assististianability (sp). That's all I'm supposed to do at this time. More later.

"And to comment that as a part of our culture, we are the government! Democracy is a culture, not a government."

Thanks for the information. Having lived in one for fourty-one years and having read numerous books on the subject, I had no idea I was missing the obvious. But thanks for commentiing on it.

"The worst thing our government has done...I am reminded of Mr. Lincoln's words about fooling the people....those in government have figured out how to fool the people, and we let it happen. That is the worst thing that has happened. Now that sort of foolery is embedded in the culture. We get distracted from the real issues by other things."

According to the definition of democracy you just reminded us of, we are fooling ourselves. So I suppose the first place to protest is in our own mirrors.

"I thought warfarin had to be ingested to be effective? Is it also effective when applied locally?"

An enema is the most effective means of application as it places the Warfarin closest to the body center and allows for its rapid absorbtion into the bloodstream.  Another unpleasant secret our government is hiding from us. 

I was hoping the counter would come up on "666" for me but I got "777" instead."

It's broke. It just came to me that Aleister Crowley is trying to contact you. May I recommend the Toth Tarot?

All in jest.

Love,
Bob

"The identified components of successful democracies are :

tolerance
legitimacy of democratic institutions
belief in the political equality of all people
questioning authority
education."

--------------------------------

To this I would add civilian control of the military ('He who has the guns makes the rules').  All physical power in any government ultimately resides in it's monopoly on the use of force and the means to enforce it. A person can believe and protest all they want. A bullet that costs less than a dollar will end the argument. So it's important that that power is controlled by the elected representatives of the people and not by an outside force that cooperates for its own interests (which can change).


" Do Bush et. al understand that maybe Iraq doesn't embrace all these components? what an uphill battle."

Insurgencies usually are uphill battles. As to whether or not President Bush shares your understanding (or you his) is not a question I can address.

"I mean, one of the elected members of the school committee once told me that he just defers to experts on matters of education. How do we raise so many "No brain, no pain" people???"

Did you ask him? I don't expound at lengh on certain matters because, in the eyes of most people, I will never be an expert until I have the proper credential. Is he an expert on education? What exactly is an expert on education? Someone with the appropriate credential and hopefully some experience. Does he have these? No? Then I expect that most people will not give weight to his arguments, even if they are true. So why should he bother? Worse, should he present arguments that lay outside of his field of expertise, he risks being embarassed by someone who has the proper credential. This would damage his credibility accross the board.

That's not to say that there aren't good reasons for listening to those who are experts. But just being right is often not enough to get people to really listen to you and give the weight to your arguments that they deserve.

As for tolerance, I have often found that the people who demand tolerance are often very intolerant themselves. If we could love each other like we should then we wouldn't have these problems. What we CAN do is focus on what we should be doing, step back and let things be, and live first of all by simple trust. Focusing externally helps us avoid focusing within where our real issues are.

BTW, when I was in Germany they had an expression: If you speak three languages you are trilingual. If you speak two you are bilingual. If you speak one you are an American (or a Brit).  

Bob

Rob-
I don't think it's political. What I strongly suspect is that the issue is one in which we see differences rather than similarities, and then set out to "fix things".  That leads to politics, but it also leads to cures for the common cold. But if your fix differs from mine, since we're both good people, we reach a dilemma in which definitions fail.

For your Good, since I see it from a different perspective, I will find something coresponding to my Bad, and vice versa. If we stay in the same reference frame, we might reasonably get into a major hassle. OR, if we look at it differently, we might find that it's all a matter of viewpoint, and there are no absolutes. Everybody is right, but not necessarily compatible.

dave

The Declaration of Independence is written in English.

Not being able to speak a second non-English language may be a mortal sin, but having to post information in non-English languages because the ones who are here to partake of the bounty have failed to learn the language of the Declaration of Independence hints at even deeper problems.

Obviously whatever great transformation is to occur must be something that enables us to get past this issue of he (well it usually is male) who has the gun rules. Can PUL be greater than physical force? Having to have clergy in the military always seemed like a failure of religion to me.

You have first-hand experience of Bush???


"Everybody is right, but not necessarily compatible. "   So how do we live together?

Lucy, just wanted to say..quote: "We used teeth before the sword" I am meditating on that endlessly....reminded me of how a baby, a new spirit here,  bites to either defend itself or just testing it's power...hmmmm.
well, we might have a new topic pretty soon

Kardec

Your post was not the least bit unpleasant.

I can celebrate the diversity in the world. I can celebrate your command of a language other than your mother tongue. I don't worry if you don't embrace the Declaration or English.

We have internal situations in this country that I don't agree with but if you are not here that doesn't apply to you.

If I go to another country I expect to have to function in the language of that country.

Of course, I understand English has ben exported quite well and so this conversation may look different from another perspective. When my son went to Spain with the Spanish club last year, I expected him to practice his rudimentary Spanish. But everyone there wanted to speak in English! The Claymore style souvenir sword he spent all my money on in Toledo was purchased in English!

There is a problem here with so many Spanish-speaking people who won't learn English. I don't want this to be a country where it is OK to use Spanish in official documents (I don't care what language anyone uses at home). But in a way, we are a multi lingual country (But I still think English should be the official language). I rode the subway train into town this AM. The Chinese looking guy across the aisle was reading a newspaper in Chinese. The Indian looking guy next to me was reading the Metro (in English) , which carried an ad about learning to speak Herbrew. A trip to the ER to a city hospital last year taught me that information is available in ..at least 17 languages. People are entitled to ask for a translator if they speak one of these languages. I don't know how many languages for which there are translators in the court system...probably not 17, but at least several. We speak many languages here. I still think people should be able to read English before they can get a drivers' license.

ha! Lucy, yes, it would behoove us  no end, that at least an immigrant know to read a stop sign, as cannot imagine that the gov would make a stop sign in two languages! is funny image.
I do admit I get a little frustrated when the instructions to something I assemble here in America come in 6 different languages and I realize I'm trying to read dutch.
America has always been the melting pot of the world and I think part of the frustration is concerned with  we take care of our immigrants but don't seem to give ourselves enough credit for feeding and assisting others to work programs and such. we believe so much in equal opportunity that America is respected all over the world, at the same we are despised for the same politics.  somewhere I came across somebody's projection of a world where we will make English the official language; perhaps in the united nations? this I discovered, the same as you, when I was in Germany as well Holland, they all spoke english ?? I guess it is taught in their schools. it amazed me. In France, it was a mix of french and english which had some funny results when conversing. in Italy, conversing with an Italian market propriator, he knew the word American Express card    One universally adopted language and one form of commerce would tend to unify the world into a community rather than a bunch of separate countries trying to maintain patriotism and traditional values. so whatever, I continue to melt when appropriate and solidify when necessary, but oh, how I wish I could be here to observe a unifed peaceful world which considers communication within a common language a necessity and alternative to shoot first, ask questions later. maybe I am a dreamer then. because this language can only be formed within the heart and we are just not there yet in a universal sense. love to all, alysia