I have just been watching a half an hour documentary on the net. It caught my attention because it was about Heaven and hell.
By the time I realised it was by the Born Again Christians it was late. They had already scared the @~#!! out of me . Please I do not mean to insult anyone from that religion, I like to give respect to everyone even if they have opinions different to mine. But I just have to say something here.
If we listen to them oh sweet Lord we are all going to burn in hell for eternity.
Being a good person, doing good deeds, keeping the ten commandments, going to church, etc... will not save you because we are all bad.
The only way to heaven is to have faith in Jesus, (phew!!! at least some of us will save the neck ...) but no... wait you must believe he is the son of God if to you he is just a holy teacher then when you die it's barbecue time ???. 
I thank God so much that I don't have to live by them. I can't even begin to imagine a life where I should fear God. Nobody should have to fear God, God is the opposite to frightening and I am just so sad for them because they will never find out and enjoy the real God.

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra..

Yup, they can be really irritating.  I was one for almost two yrs, until i found out about the bible.  Before that, i was a jehovah's witness, raised as one.  Faith in things unseen, unprovable, untouchable makes them say wierd things.

I believe it was dawkins who called evengelical religion a meme. It has also been called a mind virus, ie, it wants to be spread, propagate the infection.  Best just to thank them and switch the subject, or hehe, tell them that at your next saence you will call up a spirit and send it to them w message.

MS

Sandra,

Many (far from all) evangelical Christians believe that everyone who does not trust in Jesus will experience eternal damnation.  This belief is often underpinned by the assumption that when a Christian witnesses to you, the Holy Spirit confirms the truth of this witness to the skeptic.  As a young man, I was desperate to convert people to save them from this dreadful fate.  I found many of my agnostic friends suspected Christianity just might be true and honestly grappled with it.  But their resevations were often honest and well-conceived and I soon realized that the Holy Spirit cannot be presumed to perform this convicting role.  I was soon overwhelmed by the monstrosity of a belief system in which God would eternally damn a vast majority to save a select few who believed correctly, but may not be uniquely loving. 

After much research, I learned that the New Testament and the early church taught that God's love never permanently abandons anyone after death.  Early Christianity is the earliest literary source for the concept of soul retrievals.  The term "Hell" applies to a self-chosen state of willful separation from God and is best understood in a remedial sense.  I've even lectured on this subject at universities and a conservative Christian college.

I don't believe in reincarnation.  But I'd much rather someone believe in reincarnation than in the eternal damnation of the unbeliever.  Just imagine someone making this absurd argument.  Let's let the starving children of Ethiopia and the Sudan starve to death.  If we feed them, they'll reach the age of accountability (12) and go to Hell for not believing in Jesus.  Better to let them starve in childhood innocence and go to heaven.  I make evangelical Christians very uncomfortable when I ask them for their assessment of this horrid argument.

Because the New Testament and the early church taught the possibility of retrievals, I wanted to confirm this belief by retrieving Janet, my ex-girlfriend who committed suicide, and by embracing the retrievals reported on this site.  I've related the dramatic account of my emotional retrieval of Janet and people ask me why I allowed myself to reject the retrieval's reality.  Why couldn't I just accept it in a childlike fashion?  We all like to interpret our experience in such a way as to confirm our belief systems.  But months later, I rejected my retrieval for a very childlike reason.  In love, I constantly asked myself, "Is Janet OK now?"  Slowly it dawned on me that she was probably not OK and that she had to deal with the issues she tried to escape.  I still love Janet and soon realized that her wellbeing was more important to me than my need to believe I'd retrieved her.  When I die, one of my top priorities, if I'm able, is to retrieve her for real if she still needs it. 

I'm really sorry I can't accept the legitimacy of the retrievals reported on this site.  It would be so inspiring if I could.  I guess the truth about this is so important to me that I have to listen to what my intuition tells me after I have come to terms with my wishful thinking.  When I stop posting here, I will resume my frustrating use of TMI's Gateway tapes in the hope that I may finally experience a breakthrough and retrieve Janet in this life.

Don

...born again Christians??? heheheee, just let me tell you about one of my sisters, who has me absolutely condemned to burn in hell for all eternity.
Baptist.
Not all born again Christians are so bad....many that I know, are actually very liberal in their belief system....and are not condemning at all.
For myself, I have let much of my religious upbringing go to the side and just follow what is in my heart.
My sister hasn't spoken to me in a few years now, but then I don't need the guilt trip and damnation either.

Quote:

That's horrible. There should be laws to stop people preaching these kinds of things. It's just sick.

As for your post on the suicide of Janet, I can imagine how you feel.

I wish I knew the way to stop you from hurting, but I have to agree with Alysia here. Only you can do that.

When something affects us deeply we start to question everything that we might have believed in before. Like I did when my father passed away.

I do believe Janet knows how much you care and she must be suffering to see you like this
Maybe if you could be a bit easier on yourself your mind would be more at peace and this would aid communication and a more undoubtable way for you to confirm that she really is OK.

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra

Dear Berserk,
I so wish I could do anything to help you.
I think if I was in your place I would probably feel the same.
I have not had any OBE experiences myself yet so I can't comment about them being or not being good means of verification. So whichever way God decides to enlighten you I hope it's soon so you can achieve that much needed peace of mind, in knowing Janet is alright.
All you can do is keep trying, and keep the faith, if you seek you will find.

Peace, Love and Light.

Sandra.