There are certain experiences that make the existence of an afterlife hard to doubt.

For instance, one evening, while I was a non-believer, I found myself in space (not physical  space), and I completely understood that there is a such thing as existence beyond the physical World, including the afterlife. I also understood how such a thing is possible. The experience was absolutely wonderful.

On another occasion I had an out of body experience. Before I left my body I experienced the vibrations and paralysis people often speak of. I also saw a spirit. I had this experience even though I had never heard of out of body experiences.

One night while I was walking around I clearly understood that the physical World isn't actually physical, that who I am has nothing to do with a body based individual, and that there is no such thing as a particular moment of time nor a particular location in space. I experienced each of these understandings at an intuitive level that is beyond the mind. There is no way that a biological mind could create such understandings simply by assembling a collection of thoughts. It would be like asking a computer to experience love.

I've had other experiences. The above are just the ones I had before I read a spiritual book, or saw a spiritual teacher (alright, I had read a little of the Bible.). There is no way that a biological mind would know how to create such experiences. They were definitely beyond what my mind knew.

Ally, perhaps you have discarded the 'religious nonsense' that you were subjected to as a child?

If so, and I'm one of them, the tendency is to 'throw the baby out with the bath water' and scrap all of it.

Consider that 'God', for want of a better term, could exist - but not as you were led to believe?
A very different beastie altogether - one the theologians daren't mention?

Much food for thought in all this, isn't there?

Actually, Berserk, God is a jester who has made you feel as if you really exist, while actually you're just a dream.

Maybe death is when we wake up?

d

I think that most of us hear you right Hiorta. 

Love, Mairlyn 

sha boom !

I haven't read this entire thread yet....gotta get to work...but they have made those scientific reports on the 'weight' that is suddenly lost at the moment of death..........they say that is the soul......that should be viewed as a smiggin of proof, no??

Hi Ally -

You suggest that science should simuIate death to make people more confortable.  This can easily be done.

I do past life work, as well as generic hypnotherapy and psychoanalytic work. Aside from those of my patients who go into an afterlife spontaneously, about 10-15%,  I find that it is quite useful to send people into a death state so that they can see how familiar it is. 

If you have a hypnotist nearby, ask to be regressed to the last time you died. You'll find that dying isn't fatal.

dave

I have always been fearful of death,untill one morning in my waking state.I heard a voice saying,its just like going to sleep at night and waking up in the morning.George

Hio Marilyn-

The numbers come from an experiment in which 8 people were weighed as they died, and they lost an inexplicable 2.8 oz weight (my memory is a bit off, and I forget who did it and I might be off a tad on the precise weight).

The amount  of change is interesting. Let's assume I'm close. The fraction of a hydrogen atom that is due to electrons is roughly 1/1860 of the proton weight. A body is about 90% water, of which hydrogen is roughly 2/3 of the volume and 1/8 of the mass.  For a 200 lb person that gives 25 lb hydrogen and 175 lb oxygen (very roughly).

This is all helld together by ionic gels, the same ones as make mucous and slime. These gels are influcenced by what we do etc, as they also hold us in shape, operate our muscles, assure muscular tension is maintained, and generally circulate their influences dynamically so that we have a perpetual electrical field (actually ions) flowing through us. (For example, Ca++ ions carry axonal charges through the nervous system, and have 2e- compensatory electronic charges sucked out of their medium.)

Let's assume that they operate by shared-electron bonding (hydrogen bonding) with the water molecules. Then we have 1 extra electrons per hydrogen, and 2 extra electrons per oxygen. The electrons due to hydrogen would then weigh 1x25x(1/1860)x16 oz, or 0.2150 oz. And the electrons due to oxygen would weigh 2x175x(1/1860)x16 oz, or 3.01 oz. That gives 3.23 ounces of electrons involved in bonding in dynamic flux of ions and stuff like that. ("Stuff like that" is a technical term for things of which I know very little, and saves me from admitting that I'm becoming very speculative.)

Now let's sacrifice the test subject (that's what they call it when it's a rat or a dog, why should we people be different?) and we find that at the time of death, when ionic circulation ceases, we have a looss of roughly the same weight as the weight of electrons in circulation would suggest.

I find this Fascinating! Actually, I'd like DocM's input here to see if my crude figures might be improved.

Back to work -
dave