As a continuation of my previous topics, I would like to speak about forgiveness.

I always forgive others for their mistakes, placing their action into the circumstances and the confusion of a moment.

When I do a mistake, I cannot forgive myself. I do not like to find myself excuses. I think I should be stronger than circumstances and when I hurt somebody, I think of all the consequences for that person.

I asked for forgiveness to one person and she did not answer me. That is so frustrating, because it makes me feel like she could still be angry with me and than I am even more sure I did something, terribly hurting her feelings. I also know I reacted the wrong way, but I was so confused myself and I would like her to understand, but she seems so distant while all I ever wanted was to be friends with her.

I think the fact of not receiving forgiveness of somebody else, makes my feelings of guilt so much stronger. or maybe she is playing with my feelings (but when I think of that, I start hating her sometimes, and than I like myself even less)

I have the feeling you people here, all know how to deal with this, while I don't.

Can you give me advice?

With Love,

Traveller

Hi Traveller,
if you ask a person for forgiveness and you don't get a reaction, one cause could be this person don't know how to deal with subjects like that. I sometimes experienced that people draw back when it goes deeper than the everyday's chitchat, and that's because they are not able to handle it and are feeling not secure in dealing with it. Kinda fear to lose control.
bye, spooky

Dear Traveller,

Forgiveness...essentially needs to be recognized within, by the one doing the forgiving. We like others to recognize it too, but that is something different. Forgiving yourself is not easy, or I should say, forgiving myself is not easy, but is key to love, and being loving, giving and receiving love.  Forgiving a friend is also something that happens within yourself.  I'm not sure if saying it is as important as showing it, by letting go of any hurt, and any negative thoughts in connection with the incident that hurt.  I know times I have been "justifiably" hurt, and realized if I want this relationship to grow and nurture us both, I had to forgive, which is not a one time thing. Any time those hurt feelings returned, there was more "letting go" to do, in order to honor forgiveness. Not easy. Simple maybe, but not necessarily easy. We are human, afterall. Which reminds me of the way a friend puts it in perspective...she'll observe that something is difficult for "her human"...she is more than her human self here in the physical, and understands the difficulty that goes with being human. Maybe that is the perspective to take, being more than your human self, in order to get to self-forgiveness, because it is the human in you that is asking for or needing forgiveness. I hope this helps. (Please don't think I've got this down, and I appreciate you bringing it up. Reflecting upon this helps me, so thank you.)

Love, Carolyn

PS. Mairlyn posted a message about opening to love on Linn's Forum
http://www.spiritlinnusa.com/linns_forum/viewtopic.php?t=512&highlight=forgive

I think you should start with learning to forgive yourself.  You said you can't, but it is the first step you need to learn in order to heal inside.   My advice is to find time to yourself to sit quietly and really reflect on who you are, how you perceive yourself in your relationships and actions, and how you perceive your intentions.  Don't allow anyone or any situation to take away from you the truth you know about yourself.  Hold on to that and remind yourself of it everyday. 

Hi Traveller-
Once upon a time we pooped our pants, upchucked on the shoulders of those who fed us, and were totally dependent and self-centered. But we outgrew those days, and they need no further attention. The reason is that we no longer have those behaviors because we have found better ways to live.

When you discover that you have just stomped on someone's toe and regret the fact, then you feel motivated to find a different way to live. Thus, we do what we can, make any necesasary changes in our lives, and that's essentially the end of the matter. It's just like outgrowing our diaper days.

A simple damage control scenario is like this-
(1) what happened? - just the facts, no blame
(2) how did it happen? - just the facts, not personal factors
(3) what is done to fix it? -  do it, that's all we can do
(4) how is it to be prevented? - pick a new approach to life
(5) go on with living, there's nothing else we can do.

Not everyone is adult or clear-minded enough to see things in this light. Some people live in a world in which everyone hates them (or so they feel) and they spend their days being negative. You can't help them change. Your best way to live is simply to be you 100%, which means not joining in with their trip. If they can't forive, they have lost a valuable weapon against disconfort, but that's not your department. (Hi Alysia.) You live here in your own proper place, and it's not your job to live up to everyone else's desires etc.

As for forgiveness of others, that isolates you from all the negative stuff that comes from carrying a grudge around, waiting for a chance to hurt someone back. (Ugh!) Forgiveness is power! Forgiveness allows you to love, and to include everyone in your world, even if they themselves are unable to live in more than a tiny corner of their own minds.

To care about others issues, that they can't forgive, in a loving manner is appropriate, but it reflects nothing negative on you. It's just that some people need a little extra love and toleration because they lack the intestinal fortitude and spiritual insight to do for hemselves. That doesn't mean that you need to let them rain on your parade. They're the ones with the problem, so let them have those issues if they desire them, and we can all pray that one day soon they'll grow out of them.

Or, summing all of this up, it's good to be loving and caring, but you can only live your own life, and you must allow others to live theirs, even if they seem hell bent to be negative about you or anything else. Just being you is all you need to do to make the world a better place. Thank you for caring!

dave

WhiteFeather,

I'm not ready to let this thread go yet:Forgiveness-missing basics to forgiveness-the mechanics of it all and the key to love.

What is this thing called forgiveness and how can I achieve it-who exactly am I forgiving- why do I want it-how do we get from here to there without meeting and getting to know ourselves for peace of mind-love-what are the steps to take to be able to accept the fact that all can be forgiven unconditionally.

1.To forgive, I must know what it is I’m forgiving-awareness to define-to be able to put it into words that capture the essence of the thing to forgive.
2.I forgive the other to learn how to forgive myself and as a result for give the other and am able to let the whole thing go as just a human expression of a facet of a whole personality.
3.Once aware of the issue surrounding the thing to be forgiven, then examine it in the cold light of day.
4.Is it truly something that no other human has done or is it merely an act or thought prompted by the ego of self or others to cope with a situation.
5.What is being held in the individual that prevents them from looking at the thing that needs to be let go for peace?
    a.False pride-ego-mistaken belief in superiority    as opposed to human fragility.
    b.Feeling guilty for feeling fearful followed through with action based on that fear ie. cowardly example below
    c.Fracturing off parts of the core personality
    d.Creating a situation to reinforce a faulty perception 
6.Options for practicing experientially
    a.Direct experience on the physical
    b.Non physical experience by doing retrievals

In trying to understand forgiveness, I came across a tale told of a lady seeking help from her friend, an MD who used hypnosis to relieve pain in his patients and to regress them to possible sources of psychological stress, which might have been the cause of the condition.  So anyhow, this lady comes in requesting some relief from sciatica.  At first the doctor decides that it’s a patch of lumbar fibrosis.  But then the woman states that she thinks its origin was more psychological.  So to make a long story short during hypnosis, she finds herself as a man a long time ago, half dead in a saddle feeling remorse for being the last in his attacked party to leave.  But before he rode away, he remembered another individual in his group who was barely alive.  Now the code, at that time, was that you never leave a fellow of your group behind alive to die a slow painful death either your run him through with your sword or take him with you.  Meanwhile, this individual was in the gripes of fear and exhaustion, was left with profound feelings of guilt and remorse as he wandered on his horse till he died.  My point is that in that past time he had not forgiven himself but had the chance again, in the clear light of day to do so now. But what was preventing this forgiveness of self to come easily.  Typical of us humans we have to work it through our thought processes similar to this lady, who by the way was also a mother of five and in the final stages of dying from cancer.  Anyhow, this is how she put it.  First she understood on the intellectual level that she, of course, would be able to forgive another for doing the very act that she found so repellant when done by herself.
As she was asked why will you not forgive yourself? She responded, “…through false pride.  I was too arrogant to accept forgiveness for being a coward.  Cowardice was humiliating enough, and my pride made forgiveness seem a further humiliation…to accept it would have put me under an obligation…so it was easier to punish myself…to punish myself over and over again by trying to forget my cowardice through enduring pain I need not have suffered. But I am no longer too arrogant to accept forgiveness…I will be able to forgive other people so easily, now that I can forgive myself. I have found peace”. 

I’ve been there and am thankful that I am beginning to trust the support that I have to change my mind about forgiveness-forgiving of self and others.

Thanks for the opportunity for me to fit some pieces togethe.

Love, Jean