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For Berserk... what happens to those... (Read 22148 times)
Brendan
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For Berserk... what happens to those...
Aug 17th, 2005 at 10:58pm
 
Who truly HATE, LOATHE, DEPLORE, and DESPISE
God (assuming he exists.)
For the past 5 or so years, I've said "F**K You Yahweh" as sort of a reflexive response to anger,
frustration, ect. (sometimes just for the "hell" of it, such as when seeing the latest idiocies of president bush (deliberately uncapitalized!)
Not that I believe in "Yahweh's" literal existence... but I do
allow a REMOTE possibility of "it" existing (and by extension, the bible being true.)
Anyway, to stop saying my little "anti-prayer" (if I did, it would be out of (ugh) FEAR) strikes me as a groveling and cowardly thing to do... and cowardice is one thing I've set myself to purging from my character.
So... by your belief system (including such contributors as Swedenborg, ect.) what place in Hell am I likely headed for...
OR might "Yahweh" honor my true underlying wish (if Christianity is true) and abolish me as an entity... to let me sleep peacefully forever? I don't want a non-physical afterlife anyway.

B-man
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Kyo_Kusanagi
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #1 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 12:15am
 
While Brendan awaits Berserk's reply, for the other readers who might be wondering who is the specific entity whose name Brendan has mentioned (and apparently confused the identity of), do a search (control-F) for "Yahweh", for more information about this particular being :

http://www.axiusnews.com/aa_creation_story.htm
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Kyo_Kusanagi
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #2 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 12:20am
 
(Here's an excerpt from the aforementioned webpage)


Ava: And originally when he was [still] Yahweh, he was [also] given the Title of Planetary Prince of this planet, and the whole experiment [The Nebadon Universe] before he ‘Fell’ [he then became] known as JEHOVAH, [the Lessor God] and decided this idea of being “less than,” you know--

Ari: He shared that role of Planetary Prince with Luciafera [his Son]. At this point in time [Lord] Sananda, who we know [him] on this planet as Jesus--the Christ, [known as] Sananda Kumara [since THE FALL now] holds the position of Planetary Prince with ArchAngel Michael.

Ava: Because both of them, that he mentioned Yahweh and Luciafera [both] fell. They became [known] then as Jehovah & Lucifer. Lucifer was cast-out along with Jehovah by Father/Mother God, [and Lord Michael] and they were relegated to a different sector of the Universe. And Jehovah went about going [then] to the Orion Constellation and [continued] playing [his] war games there. Lucifer went [then] to Maldeck, a planet which IS no longer, because that experiment with the Fallen Angels [those that followed Lucifer] then went to Maldeck with Lucifer [and] created a situation there where they came into a time just like we are [now]. They were in a parallel universe and they were a little ahead of us, and they had nuclear weapons.


(Reproduced from  http://www.axiusnews.com/aa_creation_story.htm )
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Mister_Ed
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #3 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 2:21am
 

Hey Kyo....As much as we all love you in our own
strange ways, this idea that you have regarding
the origins and so called fall of 'mankind'...Is based
on stuff you have read, believed, and assume to be
the 'truth'....It may not be mine or ours!?...In fact, it
stinks of the 'new ager' syndrome...Same as fundy
Christian and fanatic Muslim information that seem
to plague these spiritual  forums at the present
time..Ed.

"A horse is a horse, off course, off course..."............
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spooky2
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #4 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 4:46am
 
Hi Brendan,
thinking about an appropriate hell for you...
What about a place where you are constantly in struggle with "god", and it don't ever change (until you want a change)? Seems to fit with my belief system.
But I don't want you to be there! Did this god-charging too, but it only dragged me down.
Better a happy coward than a bitter tough.
Bye, spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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Kyo_Kusanagi
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #5 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 9:00am
 

Quote:
 Hey Kyo....As much as we all love you...


Ah, this is of course irrelevant (to the topic at hand). You'd know by now, that when you extend love to another being, it is really for the God within yourself. All relationships are really (reflections of the) relationship with the God within.

Furthermore, how one treats others, is really only telling of one's own nature, and not of the other person. Remember,


When someone says something nasty about you, it doesn't mean you're nasty, it means he's nasty.

When someone says something nice about you, it doesn't mean you're nice, it means he's nice.


 
Quote:
this idea that you have regarding the origins and so called fall of 'mankind'...Is based on stuff you have read, believed, and assume to be the 'truth'....It may not be mine or ours!?


You see, nobody can tell you what is True or what is not. Each person must take the self-responsibility to decide this for him/herself. Others can only share with you their perspective, their interpretation, or their understanding of matters. It is *always* up to you to exercise your own discernment, to see how much of it (ie. that which you have interpreted from that which was communicated to you) you resonate with, you can meaningfully relate to, and you decide is in agreement with your own (perception) of reality or Truth.

The passage quoted and mentioned in my preceeding post, "The Real Creation Story", is precisely one such interpretation, as understood by the beings Ava and Ari giving the interview. You are of course under no obligation to accept or agree with their perspective.

However, I made reference to it for specific purpose. You will note, the usefulness of the passage when it comes to breaking through previous dogmatic beliefs, for instance, with regards to a particular name. The "Real Creation Story" also includes many other elements of a religious or esoteric significance, that will be of interest to many. Thus it can be a useful passage, but you must first of course adopt a helpful attitude when viewing these or (in point of fact) all materials.


Quote:
In fact, it stinks of the 'new ager' syndrome...Same as fundy Christian and fanatic Muslim information that seem to plague these spiritual  forums at the present time..Ed.


You also realize, of course, that any emotional reaction or judgement (eg. disgust, disapproval, 'stinks','plague', etc) only teaches you something about yourself. This is the whole point of physical incarnation, to teach the individual about what is within himself, by the Law of Reflection. "Man, Know ThySelf."

As Byron Katie teaches, always Turn-It-Around. Your impatience with any 'new ager syndrome', 'fundy Christian and Muslim' behaviour that you *perceive in others*, only has one purpose, to show you that such (behaviour, beliefs, etc) is not what you choose for yourself.

You of course, cannot control others (eg. the new ager, the fundamentalist Christian or Muslim, etc). Your free will is only for yourself. Self-responsibility.

Understanding this, you'd love that the new agers feel this way, that the fundamental Christian and Muslim feel that way, because that is their choice and because you are willing to love.

Of course, self-responsibility will next tell you, that you have to decide for yourself, what *you* (not the new ager, not the fundamentalist Christian or Muslim) can do, towards service of the greatest CosmoEthic. That is to say, what you can do to help the situation, to make the world a better place for everyone, etc.

The same with the so-called terrorists, who are themselves sufferring and in need of help. You would accept (the reality of; distinct from 'condone') and understand their ways, but all the more, you would take the self-responsibility to see what *you* can do, to contribute towards solving the difficulties that breed terrorism in the first place.

It is useful to ask oneself when encountering any situation, "What Would Jesus Do?", "What Would Hilarion Do?", "What Would a Serenissimus Do?".

With clarity, there is no anger, no hatred, no suffering, no outrage, no guilt (no matter how seemingly 'injust' or 'terrible' the situation may seem; terrorism, starvation, genocide, torture, abuse, etc); only pure unconditional love, compassion and assistantiality (ie. help), for those who would benefit from it.


Take care,
Kyo
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Mairtreya
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #6 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 10:33am
 
Great post Kyo (as always).

Love you, Mairlyn Wink
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Kyo_Kusanagi
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Reincarnate Now (NIKE advertisement)
Reply #7 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 11:05am
 
Thank you, Mairlyn... nice to see we both reincarnated (as newbies)...   Tongue

Which reminds me of a NIKE (sports brand) TV advertisement, which has as its logo a remarkably meaningful "Reincarnate Now".

In IAC terminology, it's known as existential recycling or renewal. The (free will) decision to dramatically change one's life for the better, in effect 'reincarnating now'.

Beautiful thing, this free will.

Truly makes each and every one of us very real stakeholders in determining GOD's experience & destiny (!!!). And so may all of us recognize and cherish the value of our free will (in light of all whom we dearly love, and all of precious Creation/Cosmos), and thus the importance of our committment and dedication to the CosmoEthics to the best of our ability, to the maximum love, clarification, evolution and assistantiality that each of us are capable of.


Love you,
Kyo  Wink
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Berserk
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #8 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 5:20pm
 
I will discuss your 4 comments in succession.
(1) Brendan: "What happens to those who truly HATE, LOATHE, DEPLORE, and DESPISE God?"

In the spiritual realm every genuine and precious manifestation of God's love and power is counterfeited and you seem to have been victimized by a toxic brand of Christianity.  In biblical terms, you are spiritually "cold", but your acknowledgement of this fact is a hopeful sign.  The Risen Christ insists that He'd rather people be "cold" than "lukewarm" (Revelation 3:15-16).  To be lukewarm is to be apathetic or indifferent.  During Howard Storm's NDE, Jesus tells him: "The greatest hatred of God is to be indifferent to God.  A person who is indifferent to God is repelled by His light and love ("My Descent into Death,"  32)."  Beneath your deep revulsion towards God lurks a passion that can easily be transformed into the highest and most intense experience of loving devotion.  If you experience the real Christ behind the counterfeit distortions, you will grasp this insight.  My encounter with Him filled me with wave upon wave of liquid love intensifying to the point where I thought it might kill me, totally disarming me of my hostility towards God.  This experience launched me on a lifelong journey to unearth the precious truths buried beneath the distortions of a "churchianity" that offers just enough spirituality to vaccinate us against the real thing. 

I soon discovered the true biblical teaching about Heaven: this life is a not our true career and Heaven is not a place of static rest, a glorified nursing home.   Rather, this life is a school and the afterlife is our true career, full of ever increasing challenges and opportunities to grow and expand.

(2) Brendan: "But I do allow a REMOTE possibility of "it" {Yahweh) existing (and by extension, the Bible being true)."

Perhaps, this is a sign that the Holy Spirit is already beginning a marvelous work in your life, which will render moot your worries about Hell and annihilation.  Perhaps my developing discussion of Swedenborg's verifications can make such a  "possibility" seem less "remote."   Better still, I'd urge you to read the book by your spiritual clone, Howard Storm's "My Descent into Death."

The word "Yahweh" derives from the Hebrew verb "to be."  Its meaning is more fully revealed in God's self-disclosure to Moses at the burning bush.
Moses insists on knowing the name of the god who is sending him on a suicidal mission to liberate the Hebrews from slavery.  To grasp God's reply, it is vital to realize that in Moses' day a deity's name was thought to adequately express His essence. Elsewhere God has twice refused requests for His name (Exodus 32:29; Judges 13:18).   Instead of a name, God gives Moses a phrase based on the name "Yahweh": Tell them I will be whatever I will be has sent you (Exodus 3:14)."  God substitutes this phrase to stress three points: 

(a) Do not presume to reduce me to your culturally limited conceptual frameworks. 

(b) Know me primarily in terms of your experience of me and my gracious acts in your behalf, not in terms of theological abstractions.

(c) I will be whatever I will be for you.  But I also  reserve the right to be whatever I will be to other peoples.  I can reveal myself through their myths and religious symbols as well.  This implication is dramatically illustrated in Amos 9:7:

"Do you Israelites think you are more important to me than the Ethiopians?" says the Lord.  "True, I brought you out of Egypt, but have I not done as much for other nations, too?  I brought the Philistines out of Crete, and led the [Arab] Arameans out of Kir (in modern Iraq)."

At that time, Israel had neglected social justice.  So God reminds them that He has guided other peoples just as surely as He has guided Israel.  His implicit ultimatum is this: either take care of your poor, your widows and orphans, or I will abandon you and confine my self-disclosure to the myths, symbols, and mystical experirences of other religions from other cultures.  Since the Philistines and the Arab Arameans were divinely guided to the Palestine region, this text offers an intriguing biblical basis for Palestinian rights to a homeland.

(3) Brendan: "What place in Hell am I likely headed
     for?"
OK, let's assume for the sake of argument that you never make your peace with God.  I will answer your question in the upcoming discussion on my Swedenborg thread of his many visits to Hell and his discovery of the process whereby souls find their way there with other like-minded souls based on the principle like attracts like.

(4) Brendan: "Or might 'Yahweh' honor my true
     underlying wish...an abolish me as an entity...to
     be let me sleep peacefully forever?"

Both St. Paul (e.g. Philippians 3:19) and the Gospels
(Matthew 7:13) apply the Greek term "apoleia" (= annihilation) to active opponents of God's will and thus acknowedge annihilation as a postmortem option.  Modern sources confirm this option.  In this site's FAQ section, Bruce Moen notes: "Recent exploration has uncovered a sort of permanent death.  IT is extremely rare." 

At the time of his NDE, Howard Storm is a biblically illiterate atheist.  As he puts it, "I knew for certain that there was no such thing as life after death.  Only simple-minded people believed in that sort of thing.  I didn't believe in God or heaven, or hell, or any other fairy tales.  I [would] drift into... annihilation."  Accordingly, he describes his dismay as his NDE begins: "This wasn't right.  Why was I alive?  I had wanted oblivion...Could this be a dream?...But I knew that it wasn't.  I was aware that I felt more alert, more aware, more alive than I had ever felt in my entire life (10-11)."  He then relates his chilling ordeal in Hell, an ordeal only terminates when he reluctantly cries out to God for help and experiences a life-changing loving encounter with Christ.   Christ warns him:

"For some people this [Hell] may culminate in the ultimate annihilation of their being, if after they have existed in this eternity, they still do not seek their way back to God.  For others there is [even then] the possibility of salvation (p. 33)."

The Jesus of Storm's NDE concurs with both the Bible and Bruce Moen that even in hellaceous realms, souls can be retrieved if they are open to this possibility and willing to be transformed. 

During Storm's recovery, he experiences several angelic encounters which save him from certain death.  On one occasion, a credible witness observes the deceased Catholic mystic, Thomas Merton, hand Storm a book about the very cemetery where Storm is paying his respects beside Merton's grave.

Don

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Mister_Ed
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #9 - Aug 18th, 2005 at 11:51pm
 
This is for Kyo and Marilyn...It seems to me that you are dumping your 'belief' systems on us through you own ideas and beliefs, and also through your website. Have you ever thought that it may be false?...Theosophy and Blavatsky's writings have been proven false, because there has been no evidence to prove it contrary...Use Google search and read about Blavatsky...In fact there is a photo of her with so called ascended masters, Koothumi, Morya, and St.Germain. Well!! Saint Germain is wearing a sable fur coat across his shoulders, with full length knee-thigh boots with high heels...Then there is Koothumi and Morya in their turbans and indian-type dress...Come on?!! Who were they? you're kidding??...You'll find this photo under search-Blavatsky.... And to you Marilyn. To say you are married to a person called Maitreya, another ascended master...Please explain?? As Doctor Phil says.."I did not fall off a back of a truck carrying turnips!!!" ...What is this website becoming too...A refuge for the mental-emotional deeply wounded of society?...People who DO need un-conditional and help in healing them of childhood-teenage-adult abuse of many descriptions...Freeing them from their fantasies and emotional sickness through understanding not personal and allowed escapism....Treat the problem, not feed the disease
as it happening through these websites....Respectfully. ED...ps.(Bruce)I hope you don't delete this post...If you do, It means your selling of your books, tapes, worldwide workshops, means more to you than the health of these people you are targeting through this site... I aslo Astral Travel, have some future dreams. As Bruce says...I'll prove it to myself(my experiences) not others in books, etc....My experiences will mould my present and  future belief system!


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mystic_dreamer
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #10 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 12:23am
 
oh dear.....those people in some cult a few years ago....weren't they all wearing NIKE runners while they committed suicide as their space ship whizzed by??  Tongue
(...just a late night thought..... Wink)
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Kyo_Kusanagi
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Last msg to mr Ed
Reply #11 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 12:53am
 
Quote:
It seems to me that you are dumping your 'belief' systems on us through you own ideas and beliefs...


Not quite. We would not 'dump' or 'force' our views onto others. Trust me when I say it would not bother me in the least, if you do not agree with what I say. So why does it bother you then?

Let others say what they choose to share, your only responsibility is for you to choose for yourself (your views on matters), and not (choose) for others.


Quote:
Have you ever thought that it may be false?...


By now, you should know that there is no such thing as objective 'true' or 'false'. This is why organizations such as the International Academy of Consciousness (IAC) use the term 'leading edge relative truth', when speaking of their concepts or work. They understand that everything is relative.

Once you open your mind to this, the possibilities are endless.


Quote:
Theosophy and Blavatsky's writings have been proven false, because there has been no evidence to prove it contrary
.

Theosophy and Blavastsky's writings are merely from her point of view, they are indeed 'truth' as *she* understood them at that point of time. Whoever said you needed to make them as *your* own truth? That's up to you, and that is your own responsibility. You can't blame her (or anyone else) for your own beliefs.



Quote:
What is this website becoming too...A refuge for the mental-emotional deeply wounded of society?...People who DO need un-conditional and help in healing them of childhood-teenage-adult abuse of many descriptions...Freeing them from their fantasies and emotional sickness through understanding not personal and allowed escapism....Treat the problem, not feed the disease
as it happening through these websites....


Good. Your intention to be of service to others is recognized. The important thing, is for you to take constructive action towards helping these people in the best (ie. most CosmoEthical) way that you deem fit and are capable of, and not to attempt to censor the ideas and opinions of others. Self-responsibility dictates, see what *you* can do to help the situation in the most constructive/helpful manner (ie. offer your assistance directly to the ones who ask for it), not try to control what you think others 'should' or 'should not' do or say.


Quote:
Respectfully. ED...ps.(Bruce)I hope you don't delete this post...If you do, It means your selling of your books, tapes, worldwide workshops, means more to you than the health of these people you are targeting through this site...


Another false assumption. Bruce is free to delete any post/thread and ban whoever (eg. me or you) as he feels would the correct (ie. most helpful) course of action for him to do, as forum and website owner. To say "if Bruce does this, it means that...", is presumptive and only of your own opinion, and isn't a fair statement to Bruce.


Having said all that, I nonetheless recognize you have good intentions to offer your service and assistance to others, and your 'attacks' on some of us here, are only in (what is in your opinion) the perceived interests of the others, such as the ones whom you recognize as "people who need un-conditional help and healing".

As such, I do not wish to continue this 'discussion' with you, as in my observation it does not benefit anyone. Hence I will not reply your posts further, and I suggest you do likewise. Let's focus on what we can do to help, instead of criticizing the ways of others.
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LaffingRain
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Re: what is this forum for?
Reply #12 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 7:24am
 
???  I used to be so shy to express here. I thought that at any minute surely I would come under attack and be crushed but it has not happened that way, so I was wrong and I'm glad I was wrong. for some this place is just a brief interlude, perhaps like their life could be considered to be such. for me it became home back in 2001. I feel I speak for all the newbies and so I have become one. would that we all become "new." it wasn't long after I came here I would ask all the time "what am I doing here?" so that I would have to search out my motive, intention, for each post, so to understand myself, my journey, so that I would not be egotistical and perhaps injure another unwittingly. I sense Kyo is not injured but stronger than I was back then so I do not worry about him and see he is a "negative discharger" (my term) which to me is like the art of moving energy in martial arts, to not take offense posture, but to able to take energy and manipulate it to benefit of the whole without causing injury. this is a wonderful art.
to me, all is good. all expressions because we humans have selective viewing. we respond to only what we choose to respond to and see. do any of you understand we cannot see a person here in their entirety? by a mere post? would be the reason to practice tolerance for one another, welcoming all newbies as each one holds a treasure for us, if only they are not frightened off by an angry statement posted here for not one of us holds all knowledge of all good while within C1 consciousness. is better to committ random acts of kindness and others follow suit, than to say an angry word which can wound. ask yourself when u post what is your gift here or will you take instead of give? it is ok to take instead of give, but I do not think just because you have been wounded yourself, you need to wound others. that is what an animal does out of fear. let us rise above our animal natures and let this forum be a loving place once and for all. That is my prayer, I hope it is yours.
Let's edit ourselves as we go along, making sure the message we give to one person, is the message we would give to the entire world. Let's not waste each other's time with ego bantering....
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blink
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Re: For Berserk... what happens to those...
Reply #13 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 8:43am
 
I agree with Alysia's sentiments.  Freedom is here to stay everyone.  That includes freedom to explore all beliefs or lack thereof.  What matters most is that we meet each other halfway and treasure our time together, helping each other where we can.

love, blink
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LouC03
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In response
Reply #14 - Aug 19th, 2005 at 1:34pm
 
I agree with Alysia; this board is supposed to be a place in which everyone can share his or her ideas in a free and open forum without fear of ridicule or the belief challenges that have been going on here lately.  I also know that I do not appreciate when a statement that is clearly not meant to be respectful is closed with the word "Respectfully", even if the statement is not meant for me.  I truly hope that this board can return to the enjoyable and interesting exchange of ideas it supported when I first began coming here.
Lou
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