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Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection (Read 209881 times)
JudyEb
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #120 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 3:45pm
 
Wishing everyone God's Peace and Blessings - I'm off this board for a while.

Leaving you all with an inspirational quotation from Emanuel Swedenborg:

Lastly, I will state what those people become like after death who ascribe all things to their own intelligence, and little or nothing to the Word. They first become as if inebriated, then as if silly, and finally stupid, and they sit in darkness. Of such insanity, therefore, let all beware.

Adios - God Be With You,
Judy
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #121 - Sep 18th, 2005 at 3:55pm
 
adios Judy Grin  and your God be with you also. may you find a sense of humor one day when your God comes to visit. I am so sorry for your sufferings which would cause you to attack others within their beliefs and then to call yourself godly...and say you are above all this. goodbye....this is indeed a heavy feeling I get from you. very foreboding.
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Ellen2
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #122 - Sep 19th, 2005 at 9:40pm
 
I'm not feeling the love here.  The PUL on this board turns on & off so fast it makes my head spin.
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #123 - Sep 19th, 2005 at 11:06pm
 
I don't see that at all Ellen. I see love and light here. I also see disagreements. But anything negative (such as the word vicious), I take with the love that I know is in the poster's heart. We all are love. When will everyone see it!  We are all ONE. I speak my truth as I see it.

Perceive it all as love and you won't see it turning on and off. Everyone needs to give their ego a rest.

With Love and Light,
Mairlyn Maitreya
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #124 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 7:21am
 
“Perceive it all as love and you won't see it turning on and off. Everyone needs to give their ego a rest.”

This brings up an interesting question… how do we give our ego a rest? 

What we see in others is the exact same thing that we see and understand within our self.  If we see love in others, then this is because we know and understand love.  If we see anger in others, then this is because we know and understand anger.  Even when we know that we have a choice, we still seem to choose to do what we do not really want to do.  It’s like a constant age-old battle within our self.  Jesus for example described this as the spirit being willing, but the flesh is weak.  And Paul in Romans 7:22 describes this as a war between his inmost self and his mind making him “captive to the law of sin” and I could go on giving examples of the battle we each experience from other sources… but my point is that there’s not a human alive who hasn’t experienced this duality and the battle between our core essence and our ego.

Recognizing this battle and understanding it is how we can give our ego a rest.  Essentially it is the flow of energy that wells up from within us that we allow or disallow to flow easily.  The energy of our core manifests as feelings of free flowing love and pleasure and we all wish to experience more of this in our lives.  So why don’t we then? 

I think it is because we don’t have a complete understanding of this energy because negative energy produces pleasure as well and this is what confuses us.  When we lash out or make little snide remarks we feel momentary pleasure because it is the movement of energy that feels pleasurable regardless of what we are manifesting… love or anger, etc.  I think we really need to understand and “get this”… It is the movement of energy that produces pleasure!  What manifests from the energy is determinable by our belief system, which is riddled with fears of all kinds.

PUL not only comes from our core essence, it is our core essence.  As this energy wells up from within it begins to flow pure, but as it moves we much of the time either block it or distort it because of our fears that we have incorporated into our belief system.  For example, we are usually quite shy about showing our true essence and most of the time we don’t show how much we care or how much we love.  We cover our love up by labeling it, we squelch it to what we think is a reasonable degree of expression of appropriate behavior.  In other words, we don’t allow the fullness of our core to express itself as PUL most of the time. 

Sometimes in a moment when we are caught off guard and allow our core essence to flow freely we let go and out comes our core essence in a sudden act of kindness or expression of love or friendship and a moment of close connection is made and PUL is released.  Then, not being able to tolerate the purity of this love and light we become shy and pull away.  It takes only a few seconds for us to feel embarrassed and close off a bit, thereby shutting down the flow of our love.  This happens because we started thinking things like… maybe I did something wrong, etc. and eventually we stop the flow of PUL.  So when we stop the flow of our life force, we contain it and distort it.  We bring ourselves back to what feels “safe” and “normal” because we don’t want to rock any boats… especially our own.  This is the human condition that we all are experiencing and we live in this duality of choice.

Choice is our free will in action.  In every moment we choose to say yes to allow our core essence of love to flow freely by saying yes to a balanced, powerful and safe undefendedness or we choose to say no.  When we say no, we are in a defense mode that blocks our true essence.  And this is what I think healing is all about.  Healing is reconnecting to our core essence in the areas of our life where we have in our psyche disconnected from our core.  When we suppress the love and positive energy within, we also suppress our creativity, our health and our ability to heal ourselves physically, mentally and spiritually.  We always have the choice of aligning with our core or aligning with our ego.  The first heals us; the latter maintains the status quo.  I think we give our ego a rest when as Mairlyn says… we perceive it all with love… even our suffering.

Love and light to all of you beautiful people!
Kathy
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #125 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 8:26am
 
I think we all have issues to sort out regarding pure unconditional love.  Most negative feelings, stem from fear, and as such are quite strong.

The dilemma for me is the idea of negative feelings being part of our consciousness.  They are part of all C1 based consciousness; of course this varies from person to person.  I have likes and dislikes.  We all do.  My dislikes will likely not receive my PUL. 

How do we maintain our individual personalities, likes and dislikes, and radiate PUL at all times?  Sorry, this should be on a different thread...


Matthew
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blink
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #126 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 9:25am
 
I am prompted to include a quote here that I just happened upon in my readings:

"Humor is emotional chaos remembered in tranquility."
                      James Thurber

Thus, remembered in tranquility, all of our disagreements can be taken with a grain of salt.  Perhaps arsenic is transformed to salt by a magical alchemy called PUL?  I am thankful to know you all. 

love to each and everyone here, blink Smiley

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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #127 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 12:35pm
 
Quote:
I think we all have issues to sort out regarding pure unconditional love.  Most negative feelings, stem from fear, and as such are quite strong.

The dilemma for me is the idea of negative feelings being part of our consciousness.  They are part of all C1 based consciousness; of course this varies from person to person.  I have likes and dislikes.  We all do.  My dislikes will likely not receive my PUL.  

How do we maintain our individual personalities, likes and dislikes, and radiate PUL at all times?  Sorry, this should be on a different thread...


Matthew


If we change the perspective from which we view things, the things we view will change. 

Our fears seem to be so deeply ingrained that we often don't realize that even our language usage promotes fear.  For example, take the two words...  should and could.  Should implies judgment and could implies freewill choice.  When we say something like... we should do this or that we imply judgment to ourselves.  If we say... we could do this or that, we see a choice.

Our dislikes seem to be what causes us a great deal of trouble sometimes, but if we view whatever it is that we dislike in a different way, then even though what we dislike may still be present, we no longer see it as something that we dislike. 

For example, my mother is always asking me to help her do something.  Currently it is helping her put in a small brick patio.  Whenever I help her she is very critical of the work I do.  This or that or whatever is never right or good enough for her.  Believe me for years I absolutely disliked helping her do anything and would everything I possibly could to get out of helping her.  lol Smiley

One day I realized that I could change the way I viewed this.  Instead of seeing and hearing her criticisms of me I think of reasons why I love to help my mother.  I focus my attention on the things about her that I do love.  I understand the reason she's critical of me is because she's critical of herself and expects perfection in everything.  I can place a level on the brick and show her it is level, but to her it "doesn't look level" so I simply say for her to adjust it so that it looks good to her.  Now days I love helping her.  She still criticizes, but it no longer bothers me.  In fact, it has shown me how I judge and criticize myself, which of course causes me pain. 

And we can do this with anything without losing our sense of identity.  It’s ok if I like chocolate ice cream and you like strawberry.

Love, Kathy 
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #128 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 12:58pm
 
Is this a board for people who base their lives on love, or for people who base it on fear? I joined this board because I believe that for the most part its members are interested in true experience based knowledge and love, rather than ego preserving belief systems. This predicament does provide some light though. Everytime I read a fear based post, the real truth becomes clear. Such posts have a completely opposite effect of their intent. This is because I respond with my heart, rather than with my ego based mind.



Beserk:

If you are in fact the reincarnation Eric Swedenborg, do you believe that your life plan was to make the same mistakes again? My guess is that there are some very loving beings in the spirit World that are rooting for you. Don't be afraid to give them a call. If you are sincere in your heart about finding a higher truth, there is no need for you to fear asking questions that some people might be afraid to ask?

Try looking at what you claim, without the intent of prooving it to be correct. For example, do you actually believe that Dr. Stevenson's reincarnation case study findings are stories of possession? Talk about doing all that one can do to reinforce the belief system one is preserving one's ego with.

The ego based mind "isn't" interested in truth, because as long as it can resort to a belief system,  whatever that belief system is, it feels like it has control. The truth itself, which can be known without thought, if very foreboding as far as the ego is concerned. Once real knowlege becomes available, the ego based mind no longer has a say.


No disrespect intended. I wish you the best.


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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #129 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 1:53pm
 
As already noted, high quality replicated verification is the foundation of knowledge both in science and in astral exploration.  So ES's unrivaled verifications and experienced-based refutation of reincarnation are decisive for me. 

In one modern study of past life readers, the readers explained their legion contradictions by claiming they were bringing up earlier or later past lives of the same individuals.  To dispense with this rationalization of failure, the readers were independently asked to detail subjects' IMMEDIATE past lives.  The results?  No subject received the same immediate past life from the readers! 

Still, past life regression holds a certain fascination for me, despite the number of Napoleons and other famous people who "come through."  True, hypnosis is a notoriously unreliable tool for obtaining buried memories, but sometimes it is strikingly valuable.  Just for that reason I was struck by David Fontana's skepticism about the past lives that "came through" his own hypnotic regressions of subjects.  Fontana has ideal credentials.  Consider these two quotes from Fontana's seminal book, "Is There an Afterlife?":

"I..was a founder member of the British Society of
Experimental and Clinical Hypnotists (a body open only to qualified psychologists and medical doctors)...I have used [hypnotic regression] for experimental purposes (431-432)."   

"I am not necessarily convinced that these past life memories are what they seem.  Their paranormality would seem self-evident, but an alternative possibility to reincarnation is...that the details come from the minds of the deceased.  This explanation was first suggested to me by some of the mediums with whom I have worked, and WHO ARE IN NO DOUBT THAT WERE THEY NOT TRAINED TO AVOID DOING SO THEY TOO COULD FREQUENTLY MISTAKE THE DATA COMMUNICATED BY DECEASED INDIVIDUALS FOR DETAILS OF THEIR OWN PAST LIVES.  In their view inexperienced men and women, encountering similar date in dreams, in spontaneous occurrences, and in hypnotic trance, may not be able to make the same distinction (432-33)."

This is precisely what ES discovered--an insight confirmed by Paul Beard's earlier "classical" mediums.

In a way, I am sympathetic with all the fear-based attacks against me and others on this site.  Experimental studies of cognitive dissonance have demonstated that when one's belief system begins to crash, one compensates by trying to convince oneself that one now believes even more strongly (so Leon Festinger, et al).  In this regard, ad hominem attacks are understandable and in some ways excusable.  I regret none of my blunt responses, but I admit that my quest too is fear-based in certain aspects.

I originally came to this site and read books by Moen and Monroe to gain independent corroboration of the afterlife, to learn to visit the afterlife myself, and to confirm my hope that retrievals were possible.  My obsession with retrievals was sparked (1) by my discovery that the early church taught the possibility of retrievals and (2) by TMI's Lifeline program, and 3) by my ex- girlfriend Jenet's suicide and my bogus experience of retrieving her.  It made sense to me that PUL might play an important role in retrievals; so I needed to get a handle on what the PUL channelers were really like.  I am now convinced that retrievals are either extremely rare or impossible in this life.  I pray they are possible in the next life.  I had to overcome much fear in telling myself the truth about this unwelcome inference. So I have resisted this conclusion for a long time, but am now convinced by the cartoon-like nature of the many retrievals reported on this site, and more importantly, by the lack of adequate verification.  I had hoped that ES would have performed retrievals and not just visits to the dead, but I find no evidence that he believed in this possibility.  So after a one or two more posts, I will again abandon this site indefinitely again.  I will occasionaly "lurk" on this board to read the occasional interesting experiences that get posted.  Beyond that, I want to resume my use of the Gateway CDs and the Robert Bruce-Brian Mercer primer on OBE methodology.

Don
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #130 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 2:03pm
 
One of these days, since we have all of eternity, we''ll each take a moment of no-time to have a real good laugh about this thread. We'll be: "Ha, ha-remember when we-ha, ha- used to debate about-ha, ha-what's so plain and clear to each and every one of us now-ha, ha."
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #131 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 2:59pm
 
Kathy, you made my day today. you have a deep understanding of human nature in regards to the spiritual exploration field. my hat is off to you!
and Ellen if you are still out there reading this, sorry if I said something to make myself fall off a pedestal you might have placed me on...I have placed people on pedestals all my life. I am human like the rest of you and trying only to express the highest good, but I admit I am sorely temped to make snide remarks and my intellect is great enough, I know exactly how to do that and justify it. I just got overprotective of the newbies here and so I said what I said and there was no love in it. people have been talking to me behind the scenes they will not come here if there is too much negativity and so I thought I would save the day. well, I can't. it's not my place and what a relief to learn what my place is, thanks to Kat, she straightened me out and I'm back on track Cheesy I wish to injure none and hope Ellen will accept my apology that she couldn't see love in my post. I shall go and study what hard love is then I will report back to you my findings to any interested. I cannot say I have been there to a situation of hard love, but I know it exists. I read a story in the bible that Jesus overturned the money changers tables within the temple, and I think that has something to do with hard love.
as for me, I see myself as too soft. therefore I see softeness in others. all we need here the way I see it is more balance and comradeship, not an allotment of power served to a few.
my gratitude is in the right place. it remains with TMI school of thought for my growth forward.
Blessings to all, and Recoverer, you're so right! why not take our laughter now instead of in the future?

love, alysia
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #132 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 3:57pm
 
Don-

I think retrievals are possible but with this caveat- they are not a parlor game, not like playing with a ouija board.

The thing that makes me think retrievals are indeed possible is the book Lighted Passage by Howell Vincent.  It was written 60 years ago, before Bruce was even born so at least in terms of the popularity of retrievals, I doubt hardly any folks even knew about the concept back then.  So we can't chalk it up to the power of suggestion.

But Vincent emphasized an essential prerequisite to retrievals......a prayerful attitude and a genuine desire to help.  He didn't pick out specific people to retrieve after he learned of their death from the obit page.  He just asked that God direct him to those in need.  And since he was doing this during WWII, he was directed to soldiers of all countries killed on the battlefield.

He called these rescues, not retrievals, but it's clear they are the same thing. 

The beautiful thing about this book is that it wasn't written in order to discuss retrievals.  In fact, that part of it was just a sidelight to his main purpose of writing about his daughter's untimely death, so we can be satisfied that he wasn't trying to promote or publicize retrievals.

All of that, including the fact that I personally know his grandson and know how much Vincent was loved and respected, makes me convinced that retrievals are indeed possible.  Probably rare, but definitely possible.

R
ps to Alysia- I think the best approach is to come to grips with the fact that none of us really knows much of anything.  In fact, isn't that one of the central precepts of ACIM?
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #133 - Sep 20th, 2005 at 7:06pm
 
Roger,

I agree with you.  Howell Vincent's book, "Lighted Passage" makes as compelling a case for retrievals as I've ever encountered.  I rank it right up there with the writings of Swedenborg, Howard Storm, and David Fontana as one of the most worthwhile books to read on afterlife survival.  Howell's gift is the reason I toned down my skepticism about retrievals with the word "rare" rather than just "impossible."

Perhaps, we should use a different word such as  "rescue" for what Howell did.  He seems to have retrieved the recently deceased, especially the war dead.  I don't recall Howell retrieving anyone who had been deceased for several years.  Do you?  Your reminder also suggests that I should practice Howell's Technique of Light that helped him exercise his gift.  I wonder how he could survive as a Presbyterian minister engaging in such activities!

Like Swedenborg, Howell provides just the quality of verification of survival that I'm seeking.  I quote his description of his family's two encounters with his first wife, Nellie:

"On at least two occasions this radiant mother had come to Rea [Howell's daughter] in visible, tangible form and talked with her.  In 1933, I was privileged to be present at one of these heavenly visits by Mother Nellie.  Together with Rea I talked with Nellie, fully recognizing her face and form and voice.  I saw her place her hand on Rea's head in blessing, and I saw her give Rea a flower, a calendula, which we pressed and kept.  At that time three other members of our family were present, including Rea's second mother, Agnes, and they all saw Nellie and talked with her, as Rea and I did.  We were all wide awake and walked about the room with Nellie (p. 25)."

I wonder what a microscopic analysis of this flower would show.  It is apparently a flower not of this world.  Nellie's awesome visit seems of the same calibre as Jesus' resurrection appearances during which He allowed his wounds to be touched and cooked and ate fish with His disciples.  It also reminds me of Leonard's ride in his son Jeff's car a few days after Jeff had been killed in a plane crash.  Jeff did the driving!  T've shared my good friend Leonard's story on this site.  Wonderful verifications do happen!

Don

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Ellen2
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Re: Swedenborg: Father of Astral Projection
Reply #134 - Sep 21st, 2005 at 12:38pm
 
Dear Alysia:
No apology necessary.  I continue to profoundly respect you.  I apologize that my ego flared up yet again.
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