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Haven't heard of it... I'll have to Google it.  I do agree that calling upon God can be helpful to give a person strength to endure suffering, etc.  I certainly do a lot of praying like that, and it's a good thing to do.  It helps me, at least.

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Yes.  Point taken.  However, our bodies are going to decay and fall apart anyway, because all human beings are currently under the curse of death, since Adam.  A worse sin would be to hurt or kill another person, IMO.  Another worse sin is to do something that hurts the soul of oneself or another, rather than the body, because the soul is more important than the body.  Suicide might hurt the soul in some cases, I suppose; although in some cases continuing to live could also hurt the soul, so who really knows.  I tend to just think that God takes everything on a case-by-case basis, though I suppose I could be wrong.  There are certainly many people who disagree with me.  I do believe every sin can be forgiven by God.  Even the "unpardonable sin" of blaspheming the Holy Spirit (which means to call what is holy, evil -- such as when people called Jesus an agent of Satan), is only unpardonable in "this age and the age to come."  It doesn't say for eternity.

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We really don't know that.  That's only one theory.  It is even possible that in some cases, suicide may be part of the plan that was predestined for a person before birth.  We simply don't know.  I am one who believes that everything that happens is ultimately part of God's plan in some way or another, and that humans do not have the power to thwart God's plan in any way.  Our free will cannot overrule God's will.  Anything we do, is automatically something that God can use in His plan for ultimate goodness -- even our sins.

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The same people who believe suicide automatically results in hell also tend to be the same ones who say that mental illness continues after death.  I disagree on both counts.

As for being severely depressed -- sure, that's part of God's plan for some people.  Usually a person can actually figure out how it might benefit them spiritually, if they think about it enough.  If we try, we can see a silver lining in most clouds.

I do believe there are some cases that are very specific and extreme, where human intervention to determine life or death -- either for oneself or for others -- is justified, and that God would have no problem with this.  Some wars fall into that category.  Capital punishment for mass murderers falls into that category.  Pulling out the feeding tube of Terri Schiavo is in that category.  Some cases of abortion might be in that category, though probably only a few.  A hopelessly ill person rotting in a nursing home, who decides to choose a quicker death and save their children a lot of money and heartbreak of watching them decline, could fall into that category if the person chooses to make such a decision for noble reasons.  There are other cases that could be in a category where ending life might be compatible with God's will, or at least that God would not be offended by it.  We don't really know.  I'm just stating my opinion, which is that I don't think life-and-death issues are black-and-white, absolute rules that apply in all cases.

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My God!  That's one hell of an experience.  Is your ex-husband in prison now?  I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you.

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I guess you certainly do!  However, it is important for everyone to remember that not all people are as strong as you.  And just because they aren't as strong and don't have the ability to be as positive as you are, doesn't mean they are bad people or that they deserve to be judged for their weakness.  Every soul is at a different point in its development, and each person also has a different personality type.  So we're all different, and I believe God evaluates each one of us as individuals.

Peace,
Freebird

Sandy, you continue to amaze me what you've been through, and Freebird, I see we have different ideas 'bout things but I admire your persistance to make your point and the way u have clarified your point.
the matter of how much free will humans have in making their choices is under scrutiny. according to Freebird, not much choice going on if indeed we humans are under the "curse of death." it seems this curse would be on the one hand, a desire to embrace home, or the beloved Christ within, our core, and on the other hand a deep primal fear of the unknown. how it is death can be both a blessing and a curse, well, we might ask my mother that question.
she is an example to me of utiliizing choice; she is probably the person I admire the most, and at the same time someone I cannot live with..ha ha!
relationships are important..all have the meaning you place on them, utilizing that free will thing.
she had had 3 strokes...had lain in the street bleeding once after driving out in front of a car; according to her  the other party was driving too fast; and to add insult to injury the other drove past waving their fist at her as she lay dying nearly. I never know what is true when she tells her stories..but she has come close to death, that's for sure. one day after her most recent stroke she walks up and says, "I may as well die!" this in complete astonishment on her face. I had deduced she had found herself living off the welfare of her least favorite offspring and so was feeling my helplessness to inspire her to life. after all, I was under the impression I was to help her die, or shall we say transition. wrong. I was suddenly reminded by spirit to remind her of choice and of will. I remembered the time she had aborted a fetus and nearly died on the table. she had exited her body and as usual there were helpers about of non/physical nature in such instances; many such stories can be read about. these guides were taking her hand to lead her to the other side when she remembered she was leaving my sister, at the time, a child of few years. it seemed she was given a choice to stay or leave. she made the choice for life. she was always filled with wonder when she related this story. so on this day as she prepared for death I was prompted to remind her of her choice for life, and that she still had a choice. I never seen anyone turn around as fast as she did! lol! she perked up and said "you're right! my decision to live was due to my will to live, so I'm not dead yet!" (some of her body parts were starting to fail, memory also, and slowed down reaction time) then she stuck her chin out while mine dropped to the floor as she said "I'm going to fight death every step of the way!" then she proceded to create chaos once more in her idol's style, Lucy Arnaz.
of course, I had not wanted to make her even more stubborn than she already was! lol. so I'd say we have a choice between life or death, but that we are deciding daily for either one.
she has a high pain threshold. what can I say? I was not supposed to help her die, but help her live. she now sports a pacemaker in the heart while the mind slowly recedes and makes it's way into the great unknown, the 'ol heart gets a jumpstart. most undignified way to go mother is what I would say to her, however, I judge not anybody's method of exit, which is myriad here, only curtailed by your own imagination. imagine: you are drifting peacefully home and this mechanical thing electrocutes you back into the body. well, she'll transition when she's good and ready, and not before. she certainly got a lot out of this life, from what she has said when I met her in the astral where she wears a 25 yr.old body and is looking quite good there. she has no future goals other than to flirt and play with men   she will have no problem attracting that experience once more.
like I always say, whatever you're going through is temporary, enjoy it while you can as it's human nature to always want bigger, better and more but not see the treasure of the moment. life is what happens while you are waiting for it to happen.

I don't know, I'm neutral on the subject. there are those of us who like to die young and leave a good-looking corpse behind. then there's mom, sliding into home thoroughly used up, having played and worked like a demon. then theres some can live a whole lifetime in just a moment..they may check out early too.
it's interesting how everywhere I go or whatever I read though, I keep hearing most of us are 25 or 30 years old over there once we get acclimated we can take any form/personality we want. well, it's not just reading, my grandmother, mother and sister, step father, they all come to me much younger than when they left. hmm. time is an illusion.

love, alysia

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Oh, no, I think you misunderstood me when I used that term.  I was just using some Christian terminology for a very basic idea, not talking about free will.  In non-Christian terms, all the "curse of death" means is that everyone has to die from this life; its pre-ordained that in one way or another, we're all going to end up worm chow.  I do believe in free will, but only to a limited degree.  I was not trying to argue that there's not much choice going on, as you thought I was saying.  Rather, I think there is lots of choice going on, but that our choices are to a large degree contingent upon things such as genetics, upbringing, the biological state of the brain, hormones and neurotransmitters, and other physiological phenomena which influence our choices we make, sometimes distorting or subverting our true will of the spirit.  The "curse of death" is nothing more than the fact that we cannot will ourselves to live forever in this life; we are all destined to die.  So if somebody checks out early, it's probably not a good thing, but it's not the end of the world either, since they were going to die eventually anyway.  The question is, what are they and others missing out on, if they choose a voluntary death?  A lot of good things might be missed, or not much at all.  Which is why I say that the particular situation influences the moral evaluation of the act.  In fact, I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that almost everything in life is evaluated on the other side in a very individualized way, depending on the plan and goals of that specific soul and the souls involved with them, and the degree to which spiritual progress is attained or thwarted by whatever actions that soul chose through free will.  The unique issue with suicide is that it usually occurs when most of a person's free will has been lost, such as in the cases of madness, in which case I would tend to believe that the decision would be treated as less significant than the decisions the person made in life before their brain deteriorated to the point of insanity.

Peace,
Freebird

Dalmer is a great example of extreme madness in our society. I'm looking at madness apart from religious construct here MD, so bear with me. In the courtroom where Dalmer was tried, it was brought out his twisted reasoning; cannabalism was justified in his mind that by injesting his victim, they would live within him. in a way, he thought this was "communion."
so the mad person always thinks "they are right."
why the court system did not recognize his insanity, maybe because insanity is not punishable by death in our society, and there was a need to lock him up and throw away the key perhaps, or execute him quickly as his deeds were too shocking to deal with and take responsibility for, that only in America, could we have produced such a serial killer, so kill it and that way sweep it under the carpet. at least I've read that most serial killers are caucasian and I've also read that America has more violent crime in comparison with other "civilized" countries.
we are on the right track here, in that now we are starting to study madness, not sweep it away from us. for example I watched on TV the other day, they had executed a serial killer, then retrieved his brain for study....ironically, they found his brain looked completely normal.  at least they are trying to discover why crimes happen, and each time they do study the human mind to deviate from the norm, we come a little closer to understanding how we can heal ourselves, not kill ourselves. they also looked into the Columbine killings; granted, after the fact, they saw where those who are employed to protect society had failed to take the warning signs seriously.
I dont think we take each other seriously enough; theres a human tendancy to brush off the things kids say. it turns out the parents of one of the murdered kids had lodged numerous complaints against one of the shooters...he had been leaving fires around their home and threat letters well before the shooting took place and nothing was done to look into this problem which may have prevented what happened.
you can argue that this is just where we are at in human evolution terms and it was all supposed to happen the way it did...but of course, don't say that to the parents who feel the deep loss of their son or daughter; but the event did tend to wake us all up to what is possible here and to start looking around for answers, find them, and so these things will happen less and less because we will be watchful now; and who knows how many crimes have been prevented because somebody somewhere listened to a kid's complaints and pointed out a better way? its all about listening,  about caring,  one by one by one, not coddling criminals, but not killing them either. what a school this Earth is, the whole universe is watching us and we are all a little or a lot insane to some degree or at some time in life have felt the madness. let's guide the children right, and they will guide us then. or like the serenity prayer, "grant me the serenity to change the things I can the wisdom to know the difference between what I cannot change immediately..what I'm trying to say is little thing make a difference in each person's life, small kindnesse's extended can lead a child down another path entirely...and in a sense we are all children, years in age not making much difference, but experiences adding up do make a difference. the elderly often revert back to childhood naturally...that's a clue to the spirit's maturity in that eternal sense.
and Freebird I respect your articulate nature once more but still cannot accept your choice of the word curse as I do not see death as a curse but an adventure, just another experience of exciting dimension. words such as curse, damnation, hell, they are like affirmations if used enough; yes, we all are certainly going to die, but we start dying the minute we are born; new cells relacing old ones constantly; in 7 years time, all your cells have been replaced physically, you are therefore not the same person you were previously. so death, if seen as frightful and to be avoided as a curse would be naturally outpictured in your mind as a conflict. I see you Freebird as having a love affair with death; at once you are drawn to it and repelled at the same time. talking about belief system crashes here, thats what the NDE is, but it's the biggest crash available to us. u might say we come here to die, to learn to let go and be transformed by the NDE or BST, for certainly once on the other side, things do look way different. the obe can sometimes achieve a different viewpoint also. Mendel said something really neat in another post, he said he's starting to bring back into C1 some of the perspectives he's getting within his astral travels..this is the goal then my pov, to unite these two fields of exploration into one for our understanding, to be free from the body's constraints while yet living in that body, to tell the body what u want it to do, instead of having the body direct your experience here. do not tell your body you are a genetic mess..thank your body for it's service to you, it will listen to you.

ok, I've been sitting here for hours....I am surely addicted to the internet...pardon me and thanks for listening! love, alysia