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A Few Incarnations, or Thousands (Read 14015 times)
dave_a_mbs
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #15 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 5:26pm
 
Hi Mr S -

I'm one of those "regression hypnotherapists" types. (On the Visitor page I'm advertising for research volunteers if you're in my area.) Scott's right that we tend to be linear, because memory seems to be a linear progression. However, many people have lifetimes that occur in recent time, then in long past time, then in recent time, then maybe as an animal long ago, and so on. So the "linearity" kinda fades into a concept of sequences, as opposed to linear time and causality.

The second factor that seems to be involved is that when we go "into the spirit world", we actually don't go to a different "place", but simply into a different modality. (This is what I'm interested in researching.) The first aspect is that we are already all over the place. While alive, the locus of your life force is more or less centered inside your skin, but it leaks out into the world every time you do something. In other words, your skin is not the limit of your life force's embodiment. In fact, much of the space in which we exist is also being used by many others. What we call "karma" is actually just the extended actions of our life force as it circulates through the surrounding world.

The second aspect is that when we reincarnate, we don't necessarily bring all our life force into each lifetime. We tend to focus on those things that dominate our intention (defined as in the "Silly Little Finger Moving Exercise") even if that space might be shared by other actors' life forces as well, so that we bring back interaction tendencies as well as a new definition of self. Hence we also bring back "karma" in the sense of our life forces still circulating in those places.

I've been doing regressions for over ten years, but I've never specifically asked anyone to look for the maximum breadth of their awareness during a regression. My guess is that they would report that they have total access to everything as a sort of extended embodiment. Most folks report that they have "instant access" to everything in the Cosmos, but they still retain their individually unique viewpoint, and thet they are looking at stuff. This suggests that to ask whether recall is only of one person, or of everybody, or of bits and pieces of some collective spiritual Erector Set from which we build an incarnation, is going to give us a misleading answer. If everything is everything else, then all three cases are correct, but they are non-exclusive. For example, You are Me, but your view of it differs from mine because we have different viewpoints.

I have a quick "multi-dimensional viewing" technique on my web site if you want to pursue this. The site is "mind-body-spirit-hypnoclinic.com" , and is mostly oriented toward people teaching past life techniques, but the technique is given on one of the pages if you look for it long enough. Otherwise, if you're ever in the San Jose or San Luis Obispo area, give me a call and we'll have a look.

dave

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Mr_Satan
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #16 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 6:35pm
 
Robdetroit

Yes, i can see how the central awareness could in effect be looking through each of us.  Then also the reverse, if we change phase of our focus, we could (theoretically?) move upstream, sort of, and also see through all the connections.

Dave

Thanks for the offer.  A couple of yrs ago, was considering regression hypnotherapy.  The cost is what discouraged me.  If i am ever near there, i will call.  Unfortunately, i live about 2500 miles from there.

Now, another question.  If incarnation is nonlinear, ie going forward and backward in time, then, it seems reasonable that we have also been incarnated in future times.  One would expect that future experiences would turn up in your practice, future experiences roughly equal in number to past experiences.  Yet, as far as i know, this does not happen, or at least very rarely.  This fact weakens the nonlinearity premise.  Is it possible that your patients' accounts give an impression of nonlinearity because of the way thier memories work, rather than their incarnations being nonlinear timewise?

MS

Ps, the two incranation principles do not need to be mutually exclusive, imo.  The connections to the central awareness would continue in the second part.
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Dora
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #17 - Apr 5th, 2005 at 7:58pm
 
Hi Robdetroit,

Nice to meet a fellow Elias reader, with understanding...  Wink
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Robdetroit
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #18 - Apr 6th, 2005 at 1:01pm
 
Quote:
The second factor that seems to be involved is that when we go "into the spirit world", we actually don't go to a different "place", but simply into a different modality. (This is what I'm interested in researching.)


Hi Dave, sounds interesting...
What about as a modality, do you think like altered state? If so, could the method be to supply a direction to imagination while in this state?


Quote:
Yes, i can see how the central awareness could in effect be looking through each of us.  Then also the reverse, if we change phase of our focus, we could (theoretically?) move upstream, sort of, and also see through all the connections.



Mr Satan, that is interesting to think about.
Lets incorporate central awareness into the illustration.
We already have the two reflective mirrors at an angle reflecting numerous individual versions of you as essence, and it bends into a circle or disc.
I suppose then we could say its a wheel, and essence would be the central awareness or axle of that wheel.
Now going from this axle, are spokes, that would be the connection of essence projected into an individual focus on the wheel.
So in this sense, all focuses are a projection of essence and are essence.
Now you can move upstream from your focus on the wheel to that central awareness. But when connecting, or attemting to connect with other focus lives, you are also connecting sideways with the other focus on that wheel.
Think of a triangle, one line from the axle along the spoke to your foucus of attention. Another line from the axle along the spoke to the focus of attention you are attemting to connect with, and the third line between you and the focus you are connecting with.
That third line is blocked by perception.
Simultaneous to you, even if in a different time frame, or dimension, the other focus exists as do you, now.
What we percieve as past people as gone, future people as not manifest yet, as focuses of attention of essence of consciousness, they all happen to exist now.
Which will remain theoretical until science proves it?



Dora, thanks:)
What I love about Elias, of course, is that I find his info stretches the mind. And gives a cool perspective on what and how we have established...created, what we have created.
Also nice to see more Elias readers, quite a minority we are...lol




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Justin2710
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #19 - Apr 6th, 2005 at 1:09pm
 
  Rob, really like your explanation!  A great way to visualize and to easily understand the concept....

with deep appreciation,
Justin
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Robdetroit
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #20 - Apr 6th, 2005 at 2:21pm
 
N/p Justin, ...my pleasure .
I enjoy using simple geometric shapes to explain concepts.
With this illustration, it can be expanded on still. Like to factor in that each individual focus of essence on that wheel is its own axle, with many projections or versions and aspects of it, and so on into countless wheels.
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Axel
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #21 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 1:49am
 
Rob and Dora  Grin,nice to see you here!
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Mr_Satan
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #22 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 7:47am
 
Yes, i can understand the axle spoke way of explaining it.  However, i don't understabd why there seem to be no future lives available for viewing.  For instance, using that illustration, lets say that there are a total of ten spokes in one axle, 2 in the present, 5 scattered throughout the past, and then 3 in the future.  The 3 future ones should be as viewable as the past ones, yet appear to not be, as no one recalls future lives, that i know of.  Any ideas?

MS
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« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2005 at 10:00am by N/A »  
 
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Touching Souls
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #23 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 10:09am
 
Robert Monroe went to a future life of his somewhere in the year 3000 or so.  I've read of others who have seen future 'probable' lives as the future is subject to change.  I've done a retrieval about 3 years ago from the year 2013.  The program, Timeline, at The Monroe Institute takes people to past and future lives. We can access any life ourselves. It's a matter of going within.

Time is relative. There is NO TIME. It is a physical construct. We are living all lives, past, present, future, parallel, multi-dimensional right NOW.  Shocked

Love, Mairlyn Wink
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Robdetroit
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #24 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 11:13am
 
Quote:
The 3 future ones should be as viewable as the past ones, yet appear to not be, as no one recalls future lives, that i know of.  Any ideas?


Mr Satan, hello, ok for example,here is a list compiled on the elias site by individuals who have connected with focus lives of their essence in many time frames, past and future...
http://focuses.eliasweb.at/O_time
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #25 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 7:17pm
 
Hi MS-

Yes, I've done future progressions. Among other dismal things, Los Angeles is expected to survive for another 100 years. The problem is that definitions are not linearly developed From a single time stream Along a single time stream. There's an old Gold Coast saying, "Destiny is fan shaped,", meaning that we have lots of potential futures, all of which are valid. Just because you lived in one doesn't mean that you'll go back through it again later. Hugh Everett's "Many Worlds" model of Quantum Mechanics, developed with Archibald Wheeler, came out of Erwin Schrodinger's "Cat Paradox" . In essence, all potential futures are real, but not all realities are accessible. This makes sense. If you came from a future in which you XYZ for the first time, and then live here, then you have brought an experience of XYZ here, so it wouldn't be there as the first time in the future you previously experienced, but would be somehow different in some other future. As far as I've been able to see, what we have is a linear path through a reality that is linear and logically cumulative for us as individuals, so that yesterday implies today implies tomorrow, but that otherwise seems to be laid out in a previously defined array of possible states where all the yesterdays and tomorrows have already been defined. We are sort of travelling through them by directing intention.

By the way - I don't charge my volunteers - In fact I give them 2 hours of anything they want to work on in return for 8 hours for me. So if you're visiting San Francisco or LA keep it in mind.

Rob- I love your description. There's a famous Hindu idea called "Indra's Net". The image is that the universe is populated by diamonds, and the gleam from the facets of each diamond is reflected in the facets of every other diamond, so that in the reflections we have the image of each other, and of the world.

dave
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #26 - Apr 7th, 2005 at 7:19pm
 
Hi MS-

Yes, I've done future progressions. Among other dismal things, Los Angeles is expected to survive for another 100 years. The problem is that definitions are not linearly developed From a single time stream Along a single time stream. There's an old Gold Coast saying, "Destiny is fan shaped,", meaning that we have lots of potential futures, all of which are valid. Just because you lived in one doesn't mean that you'll go back through it again later. Hugh Everett's "Many Worlds" model of Quantum Mechanics, developed with Archibald Wheeler, came out of Erwin Schrodinger's "Cat Paradox" , and deals with this idea (vaguely).  In essence, all potential futures are real, but not all realities are accessible. This makes sense. If you came from a future in which you XYZ for the first time, and then live here, then you have brought an experience of XYZ here, so it wouldn't be there as the first time in the future you previously experienced, but would be somehow different in some other future. As far as I've been able to see, what we have is a linear path through a reality that is linear and logically cumulative for us as individuals, so that yesterday implies today implies tomorrow, but that otherwise seems to be laid out in a previously defined array of possible states where all the yesterdays and tomorrows have already been defined. We are sort of travelling through them by directing intention.

By the way - I don't charge my volunteers - In fact I give them 2 hours of anything they want to work on in return for 8 hours for me. So if you're visiting San Francisco or LA keep it in mind.

Rob- I love your description. There's a famous Hindu idea called "Indra's Net". The image is that the universe is populated by diamonds, and the gleam from the facets of each diamond is reflected in the facets of every other diamond, so that in the reflections we have the image of each other, and of the world.

dave
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Robdetroit
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Re: A Few Incarnations, or Thousands
Reply #27 - Apr 8th, 2005 at 2:18pm
 
Yea...Indras net, kind of gives an idea of how we are connected.
A little different from the wheel illustration, as that kind of explains the vastness of an individual as essence.
Our multidemensionality, and our connection in consciousness.

the wheel and indras net are difficult illustrations to merge together....hmmmm

there is always the regional areas of counsciousness outline....
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Kyo
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Incarnations, OverSouls and Eternity
Reply #28 - Apr 10th, 2005 at 10:21pm
 
I had some comments regarding certain points brought up within this discussion thread, but unfortunately, was unable to (as I originally intended) make the entire post here at one go (due to the word limit set by the AFK Conversation forum script).

Rather than cut it up clumsily into chunks, for those interested in the topic of this discussion thread, and might like to have a read on my input/views/comments, you're invited to visit my post here :


http://infinity.hispeed.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1113196507
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