wait Dave; the sob who raped the child is retrieved by PUL; then his energy is transmuted into a non-rapist but he is not love, not self realized until love finds him and reveals it behind his fabrications..are you cool with this?   this morn I started writing this down for example:


it’s going to be a contemplative day when... I wake up and groggily delete all my bulk mail and suddenly realize I’m busy that way in life also...making myself disappear as much as I am in making myself appear...also the cells in my body are busy deleting and re-manufacturing.

The vision is always perfection...the reality is the allusion that perfection is somehow incomplete. Is there a reason not to relax then?

all ya need is love...da da da da...all ya need is love, love is all ya need. (that was a bad rendition of singing over the internet a Beatles tune.)

There is an E.C. reading i like which goes something like, "Law is God, God is Law, Love is Law,  Love is God and God is Love.."  I guess it pretty much sums it all up eh?
_____

right Justin. EC was my first study as a teen. I heard he pretty much overworked himself for the sake of others. wonder what he's up to now? have to check someday! about pul energetics...it is powerful stuff, but so simple even a dog does it by example. we make it complicated. that's called self expression. I won't get into self expression and all those avenues even though it's one of those contemplative days, but we do it here and it's kinda neat. and just continueing to appreciate your comments here.

  I've only read some of ACIM, but i consider it the sister teachings of the Readings, seeing how Yesh supposedly was the directing influence in both.  And the spirit of the message is very much the same...gimme an L. gimme an O. gimme a V. gimme an E.     Well, didn't know cheerleading was in me 

Reading this thread, it looks to me as if you have all gone mad.
The confusion I see here is the result of a cult having developed
around what I consider to be false or misleading teachings
contained within ACIM, Seth, and Elias. As more people read these,
more people become confused, until you build a major ghetto of
screwy people. I don't reject all of that. I use some of their
ideas in my thinking and fully accept certain passages.

What I see in these kinds of posts is the desperate attempt to
revise every bad thing to make it look good. Like everything that
happens is for the eventual highest good. This is a complete
delusion. It is a self deception in an attempt to desperately go on
believing that things are under the control of something that is a
father figure, who knows what is best for you.

I escape this confusion entirely, because I do not assume that the
universe works for the benefit of humans or any other species.
Stepping outside, and looking at it objectively, seeing the
behavior of nature exactly as it is, I have no reason to make that
assumption.

The only way you could argue that things happen for some good
reason is, to assume that the objective is for every possible kind
of experience to happen here, good and bad, in order to have the
fullest possible range of experience, and thus completely round out
the knowledge of the developing soul.

To carry through this philosophy, imagine this scene. The planners
look down at Earth, and see that the Earthmen are getting too
successful. Their life is getting too good, too comfortable, too
easy. That is not good, we must fix that. Lets give them another
World War. That way they can have great heroes, great villains,
great dramas, and great miseries to balance out any good they
might attain. Lets give them more disease. Their medical science is
getting too good, so that they are saving the lives of inferior
specimens, and thus downgrading their DNA. Lets turn Satan loose
and give him more power, to wreak more havoc. This approach would not fit
the idea of a father figure being in charge, that people are so
desperately trying to hang onto. This casts the father as part
sadist, and that is where you are getting hopelessly confused.

This involves a kind of perverse idea of perfection, that the
perfect Earth is where things are as imperfect as possible.

This also incidentally could fit the Loosh idea.

But that is not the way we do things on Earth. We solve our
problems. We make our lives safer and more comfortable.
We try to eliminate our miseries. That is the natural result of the
development of intelligence in a species. That is the expectable
logical outcome of the overall scene of a species that has
intelligence and a drive to survive, and only the species that has
a strong survival drive will still be here, continuing life. In the
process of improving our lives, we set down values of good and evil
that fit with these objectives.

Now our explorers have gone out into the universe and found that it
does not run on those Earth values that we have developed. The
people up there are not concerned about death, because they are
already "dead", that is their natural condition all the time.
So this has made a moral trauma that has thrown theological
thinking into confusion. Earth built their religions on the idea
that their moral imperatives came from up there, but now we see
that they were invented down here for the purpose of Earth life.

I think that ACIM, Seth, and Elias are part of that confusion. They
are the well-meaning intermediate spirits, who have discovered some
things that are out there, but have not got it all together. I do
not at all assume that spirits that are at a higher vibration level
have a better overall paradigm. These are the intermediate spirits
described by the "Chinese man", of the Leslie Flint material:

Here is a quote from an earlier post of mine:
"Good souls, some not highly advanced, come to you with love and a
desire to serve you and mankind, through you, but never the less
they are limited as you are limited"
I think of Seth and ACIM as being limited, as this entity descrbes.
My post from which the above quote comes is:

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-afterlife-knowledge/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=a...

What kind of therapist would it be, who would say," your family is
all messed up. So we are going to arrange a death in the family to
shake you up and get you to get your act together". Would you go to
such a therapist? Would he get board certified? Could he write a
report to a professional journal, about the beneficial treatment of
hiring a hit man to murder a member of the family? That is why I
think you have gone mad. And once that thinking gets going, it will
appear in the astral so that when you go into the astral, you will
find that kind of thinking in order to reinforce what you have
invented. The astral is screwy that way. Remember how people at
death go to BSTs that reinforce their thinking. Screwy thoughts
create screwy things in the astral.

Or here's another one: "we think it would be beneficial for you to
have the struggle of trying to raise a family of children alone. So
we are going to kill your husband".

Enough of this madness. Because I do not assume that things will
happen for the highest good, I don't get into these ridiculous
things. That assumption is completely unwarranted. All I have to
do is just be objective about reality as it is. I don't have to
invent any ideas about supposed higher ultimate good. That is
completely unnecessary.

Bad experiences are part of the road to wisdom, but we have absolutely
the right to say they are very bad, and to try to prevent them.

hi Boris. probably you are reacting to Daves post here so maybe he will post some more in responce to you. you have a lot of questions and I respond from my spirit, but I also respond from the programming ACIM has given me, which I hear you say you reject parts of it and accept other parts.

the spirit that helped me read the ACIM material told me I must accept all of of it or none of it. so I accepted all, and in return I acquired a peace of mind. small compensation for beating my head against the wall resisting it. but I know it was my experience, not yours and that u may not hear me at all because of our different view points.
we're here for an experience and it's our choice to see good or bad and survive if we can while we experience it. the completed text of ACIM says to "forget this book" and go out and have an experience, as the ego will continue to generate questions that cannot be answered; that's it's job. it's a question generator and seeks to feel itself in control as the feeling of helplessness here is something we would wish to avoid and is relative to a fear frequency going on all the time, next to a love frequency.
the last thing ACIM says, is theres nothing we can do but wait for God to take the final step.
this thought tends to make you shut up and just go live your life the best you can. if you see something bad, it may be possible to make it good, if only we can express from love instead of a fear thought. Before you continue to berate different material out there, I wish you would read the entire body of material first before making bold statements that it's flawed. it may not be for you personally, but at the same time, it may be just what the doctor ordered for another person. I know you do not wish to be attacking people but helping them and are an honest seeker. lighten up Boris, it's only a movie.

Thank you Alysia, for your attempts to deal with me. I am always
asking the question, does Alysia know things that I don't know that
I must learn? Yes, I think there is something to that.

But when I look at what I must study, what I look for is a
breakthrough in understanding. I think I am able to discern when I
hit on something real. When Bob described (on Linn's forum) getting
some sleep while his body stayed at the helm, or drove the car,
that for me was a real breakthrough, that was great! When Kathy
said that the aura of a leaf exists before the leaf grows into it,
that was marvelous.

But when I read that there is no good or evil, that is not a
breakthrough at all. Just not interesting enough to read any
further. That is exactly what this planet does NOT need at this
stage of history. What Earth needs is an improved idea of good and
evil, a refinement of inherited concepts.

I already have enough objectivity to look at the behavior of the
physical universe without imposing anthropic values of good and
evil on it. I am very aware of that.

This planet does not need the confusion that comes from astral
exploration and the New Age. We will of course do the exploring.
But untangling it is a long journey. COnfusion will be an
inevitable part of it.

thanks,
Boris

Quote:


And what makes you think that YOU'RE the god given "model" to morality?

Quote:


The only thing  you  and CAN BE responsible is your OWN  moral, your OWN beliefs, your OWN action.

Quote:


WHO ARE THE THEY???? and you think that YOU are who authorized to give that guidance?
where this assumptions comes from?... based on what?  you may think that others don't understand, I may think the same about you but one thing I know, your attitude is the same from all the ignorants who think they know more than others, nothing new through history the most critical and judgmental ones has been proved to be wrong as when they strongly said the Earth WAS flat or as when they said that the Universe is made of ABSOLUTES bodies in and ABSOLUTE ether or space and the law's of the mechanistic universe were ABSOLUTE....then you see?........you are not different, you judges others with such incredible arrogance as you are the one who KNOWS, when in reality you just judge according your limited perception, knowledge and beliefs

Quote:


No playboy is successful because the wide spread pu**y on a glossy paper replace the natural intimacy for the emotionally, intellectually immature low self esteem  male, who unable to achieve and and preform in the real life.... and have to substitute with the fictional cupcake fantasy, which is a total throw away and business transaction for who you give so much credit for...
Real people enjoy real and intimate sex which is the most natural thing in this dimension  without any guilt, and with intimacy and love doesn't need  any outside stipulation...  and individuals who care about selfknowledge and understanding don't read about it between 2 silicone filled  centerfold... 

Quote:


And I have no apology to criticizing you and anyone, not as the individual but the limited and hypocritical attitude toward anyone and anything what doesn't fit to the limiting beliefs...

Boris,

Thank you for injecting some much needed rationality and common sense into this discussion.  (Although I have no idea why you started talking about Playboy.)  But as for the stuff you said that was on topic, I tend to agree with many of the points you made.

Here's the way I see the good and evil issue, briefly.  For human beings living in civilization, yes there is such a thing as absolute good and evil, which transcends our own opinions and which we should try to discover through reason and live accordingly.  On most issues of serious moral importance, there is truly right and wrong which applies to everyone, not relative to individuals or cultures.  For example, it is evil to hurt another person, and that is an absolute truth for all human beings living on earth.  However, IMO there are a lot of gray areas in morality that traditional religion tends not to recognize, preferring a rigid black-and-white view.  For example, sometimes one might have to do something evil in order to accomplish a greater good, and that might be legitimate under certain circumstances, or it might not be under different circumstances.  Killing in war is a good example of this; it's a moral gray area.  There are other examples I can think of, but I won't get into them because it opens up a whole can of worms and could send the discussion off on a tangent.

Anyway, from God's larger perspective, outside of time and seeing all results of all actions, the concept of good and evil tends to become less clear cut, and it may be that everything that happens in the universe is in some way for the good in an ultimate sense, even terribly evil things.  However -- and this is a very important point -- for us humans here on earth, it is dangerous to think this way, because we are limited beings and we cannot see the big picture, so we must act in a way that is good in the immediate frame of reference.  Therefore, even though committing some horrible evil act might actually be good in the big picture, we cannot see this and therefore we should not do it.  For example, if somebody had murdered Adolf Hitler when he was a child, it would have turned out to be an act of great goodness, preventing the deaths of millions of innocent people -- but nobody would have known that at the time, and it would have been a heinous crime of evil.  Therefore, nobody should have killed the child Hitler, because they could not have known what he would become.

So, basically what I am saying is that in the limited human frame of reference of our lives and civilization on earth, there are certain moral absolutes we must follow, but in the big picture it may look different.  Just because God is capable of using all evil to produce good, does not mean we humans should try to explain away all evil things that happen as good.  We do not have the information to know that, so we should generally assume that what seems evil is evil.  We should feel free to call a spade, a spade.  Sometimes we may be wrong, but it is best to err on the side of common sense and the rational rules of civilization.  The rules evolve over time, of course, and I would say what we today consider rational morality is more advanced on many points than what people thought in more primitive times.

One final point:  Boris, you are correct to say that the New Age can often be just as dogmatic and absurd as some of the tenets of traditional fundamentalist religions.  IMO, people should try to avoid buying into any ideology that requires the suspension of reason and common sense, unless there is a lot of hard evidence supporting it.  Any set of ideas when turned into an ideology or a creed are a hindrance to spiritual growth, which requires somewhat of an open mind.  Sadly, New Agers can be just as prone to closed-mindedness as believers in more traditional forms of religion and philosophy.  I think it is better for people to think for themselves, examine various ideas and viewpoints, and be reluctant to commit themselves firmly to any doctrines, except on points of great importance where they feel they must take a stand for absolute truth and rectitude against error and corruption.

Freebird