Does the spirit have a body that to them,fells and looks solid?.If this is so,than that would explain why they after passing ofer would think they are alive and not dead.I know I have seen spirits that look solid to me.I would like to know how they look to other people who have seen them.George

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Marylin, in my understandings considering that the Focus 23-27 is only our "labeled" areas of the consciousness, and not some address with zipcode   and it is  non-physical how can they have actual body  other then your experience let you believe that they have one, which I have no doubt true to you, but it might be not the truth

Thank you for you comment on my post regarding Elias explanation of our beliefs but this are the things exactly he pointing out and refering to, when he talks about how beliefs influensing our perceptions and reality and how experiences follow OUR beliefs and not other way around

Whatever we experience while in physical AND after disengagement, and in transition period is based on our perceptions and beliefs, and the purpose of the transition period is shed those objective beliefs because they are just  IS, beliefs in physical and non-physical until the transition complited,  where is no levels, no "higher" or "lover" only full awareness and recognition ''who we really are"

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I feel compelled to respond to this idea.  I have heard versions of this so often, from so many people who believe in a spiritualist or new age view of reality.  The fact is, numerous ordinary experiences in people's lives prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that experiences often go against our beliefs rather than following them.  This is the only way that spiritual growth -- or growth of any kind, for that matter -- can occur.

Did a person who was hit by a truck and became paralyzed from the neck down "believe" this horrible experience into being?  What about the tsunami victims, did they "believe" they were going to die or have their whole livelihood taken away in a killer wave, and that's why it happened to them?  No.  This is absurd.  Every day, in places all around the world, optimistic people have bad things happen to them that they never expected.  Pessimistic people also have good things happen that they never thought were possible.  Their beliefs have little to do with it.  In fact, their beliefs are challenged by these unexpected things that happen, and it forces them to grow spiritually.

Atheists have NDEs.  Skeptics see ghosts, UFOs and aliens.  The morally ultra-conservative have gay activist children with tattoos and piercings all over their body.  Religious fanatics who think God is in their corner have things happen to them that shake their rigid belief system to its foundations, such as unanswered prayers and tragedies in their life.

Beliefs create reality?  Yeah, right!  More often, it's just the opposite.  And it works that way to force us to get out of our own limited box and realize our beliefs do not control reality, that reality transcends our own personal fantasies and expectations.

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I think that at all times, God is working to help us shed our beliefs and move into the realm of true reality.  That includes both life on earth and life after death.  The only time our beliefs create reality is when we are dreaming, imagining, and probably during times in the afterlife when we are allowed to take a break from objective reality and do the equivalent of dreaming.  Maybe that includes the transitional period of passing from life in the body to life outside the body, but as you said, the goal is to move beyond being confined to this state.

Freebird

Well said, Freebird.  Of the many points that discredit the channelings of Seth and Elias, this is one of the most obvious.  Other errors can be exposed through historical investigation.  I will shortly illustrate this in detail in  my "Agenda" post.

Don

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Obviously everyone is free to choose their own beliefs.  I have mine, you have yours.  I decided to express my opinion for anyone who might be interested in hearing a different perspective.  I have noticed that many people on alternative spirituality forums tend to believe in an exaggerated degree of free will, but my own life experiences and reflection on events in the world have convinced me that this viewpoint is erroneous.  I thought it would be good to share the other side of the issue.

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"not anyone creates my reality other than myself" -- gosh, I wish I could be living in that world you're living in!  We must be in parallel universes!    In your world, is there no such thing as events that occur which are beyond your control?

I can only say that at some point in time, you may face a situation or event in your life that will challenge your strong belief in freedom and force you to reevaluate it.  Several years ago I thought much the same way you do, but my life experiences threw me for a loop and reduced my free-will oriented belief system to rubble.  It was then that I truly came to understand that there is a Higher Power who is in total control and that our own individual ability to choose is quite limited.  When I realized this, it came as a terrible shock and it has taken me a couple years to fully embrace this truth.  Nobody wants to admit they do not have the power, that Somebody else has the power.  But life has a funny way of teaching us that there is Somebody who is more in control than we are, and that reality is mostly an externally imposed truth rather than an internally generated choice.  Yes, we have some free will, but only within boundaries.

Please understand I am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking.  I am only sharing my view of reality, based on my own experiences and reflections.  Nor do I claim to know all the answers -- far from it!  

Freebird

It would appear that the spirit has a body much similar in fashion to the physical body in which it was incarnated. This body is tangible in its own density and frequency. It would seem logical that no matter how high a spirit ascends in the celestial realms....he/she always has a human body form....however spiritualized. But who knows....maybe some do become balls of light...but this seems to nebulize or de-personalize a human spirit to just a glob of light-energy. It would seem that we retain our unique bodily forms as they even become more perfected as we spiritually advance. In this sense...the soul always has a body in which to operate.


paul

Hi rog,

Interesting. Most of the after-life accounts and spirit-communications I have read seem to indicate that one continues in their spirit-body-form.....and such resembles what was once their physical form-features. In these lower yet more highly spiritualized realms of the Spirit-world.....things are much like they are on earth but more astral or spiritual in nature. However they are still substancial, tangible.

I dont recall any beings of light appearing as balls of light or 'orbs' - but I havent read Bruces accounts. It still seems logical that we have a bodily form in all dimensions of spiritual ascension no matter how glorified our being is...or the realm is in which we inhabit.

It would seem that the soul would maybe look like a ball of light perhaps...before its incarnation in its pre-existent state....but then the soul after incarnation develops its spiritual body which grows with the physical body.....and is at last liberated at physical death (the soul continuing on in its spirit-body-form). Or one may assume that a soul at some point in time due to its spiritualization....may appear as a ball of light. At this point as you note....it would seem to be hard to recognize personalities this way....but perhaps possible thru some kind of soul-sense. Still.....seems pretty nebulous and ethereal.

Scripture does indicate that we shall know even as we are known.....so there will be a true recognition of personhood/personality. I think forms are beautiful...and as we advance in spirit....we shall possess bodily form and fashion. Our bodies will be immortal and spiritual........but there is no indication in scripture that we will be balls of light or energy-orbs. Even Jesus is said to have his immortalized spirit-body-form in the heavens at this very moment.

The above is from my research so far. I have had no NDE or spirit-travel experience where I've seen spirits who were balls of light yet. All in dream states are people with bodily forms of some kind.

Just some thoughts. If you have links, references on this subject that suggest some beings being balls of light or other forms unlike human forms....let me know.

paul

Body Schmody!!

I am with Dora on this one.

Ultimately we are borne out of pure consciousness. There is no body in that state.  Self-awareness doesn't automatically necessiate having a body to know one's self as "self" or as an individual expression of something larger. 

As we move down to denser levels such as this then thought takes over and after a few lives, these realms govern our ego consciousness more than pure consciousness levels do.  hence the alignment with beliefs that we are inextricably physical.  as most are aware, this continues through to the astral levels but may discontinue in less dense areas.

Freebird - the beliefs are intrinsic and deeply rooted in collective consciousness of humanity as a whole (as well as dynamically reinforced over hundreds of thousands of years).   So not just an individual belief in one of us

That may be your differing of opinion with Dora. Its not your surface expectations and beliefs created in this lifetime but the totality of our views and understanding of Earth.

When you say "obviously everyone is free to choose their own beliefs, you have yours i have mine" - while containing essential truth, it is a whole whole lot less apparent than you seem to appreciate.

I would say most of our common intrinsic beliefs are identical and we have a very difficult choice in freeing ourselves from them and choosing others with different parameters.

Hence, we associate ourselves with a body in defining self here and in the astral but pure spirit consciousness has no deed and in such a plane of existence simply won't.

(of course these are just my views, surface-believe what you want) 

Scott