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Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger (Read 468139 times)
recoverer
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #150 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:28pm
 
Moonsandjunes:

Perhaps the fact of how people accept the course so readilly, is a statement of how brilliantly misleading it is. People I respect such as Bruce Moen and Dannion Brinkley have referred to the course. I don't get the feeling that Bruce and Dannion have been effected by it to a large degree. They have written things that differ from what the course states. The concern is when people get overly effected by it. Sure there are lots of belief systems that people get misled by. However, the existence of many misleading belief systems doesn't negate the need of scrutinizing any particular system. Going by what you wrote, I figure you understand this.
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moonsandjunes
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #151 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:41pm
 
I see and hear you, my friend. You are all my friends. Thank you for that.
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recoverer
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #152 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:41pm
 
Here's a question: is it wrong to have a long in depth conversation about something? I never suggested that alternative viewpoints can't be made.

I don't believe the World will become a better place by the inaction of sweeping its problems under the carpet and trying to imagine that they aren't there. They will only be taken care of if people are willing to get a little dirty and talk about them.  I just happen to believe that false sources of information such as ACIM is one the problems that need to be taken care of.  If other people can speak about causes that are dear to them, perhaps I can speak about this issue. If it makes me egotistical, so be it.
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moonsandjunes
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #153 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:49pm
 
Get a little 'dirty' and talk about them............. ?

Sorry, my mind is going all over the place with that one... Smiley
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recoverer
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #154 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:01pm
 
My statement reminds me of something.  I had a day that was one of those difficult spiritual growth days. While meditating my spirit guidance showed me an image of a row boat on water, and the boat wasn't getting anywhere because there weren't any waves. I understood this to mean that if you don't exerience any waves in your life, you don't grow.

Therefore, I figure that in order to make this World a better place, we're going to have to experience some waves, get a little dirty. If we try to pretend as if eveything is okay when everything isn't, where will we get the motivation to make things better? One of the things I don't like about ACIM is that it can breed indifference.  There are various misleading sources that do this is different ways. I don't believe it is good to count your chickens before they hatch.



Quote:
Get a little 'dirty' and talk about them............. ?

Sorry, my mind is going all over the place with that one... Smiley

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I Am Dude
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #155 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:02pm
 
Recoverer

Everything we come into contact with is filitered through our belief systems.  Your interpretations of the statements made in the course are probably vastly different from others interpretations.  I tend to be on the side of seeing the positive in things, rather than the negative.  This does not mean I am being misled.  It simply is a matter of my focus being on love and light.  I can discard a statement if it does not resonate with me without having it negatively affect what I read next.  It seems you read somthing that does not resonate with you, and automattically believe the source is misleading and the entire work is a body of negativity and delusion in an attempt to bring people away from love and light.  But then how can so many people read this work and receive nothing but positive effects from it?  Doesnt add up...
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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recoverer
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #156 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:17pm
 
Dude:

I didn't decide this all on my own.  I received spirit messages that "didn't" reflect the course in a positive way.

Regarding seeing the good rather than the bad, it is fine if a person is able to find the good in what they read. However, I have already stated in various ways that unfortunately, people do pick up false information from the course, get brainwashed by it at times, and become indifferent.

If a person ever decided that he or she wants to receive guidance from Christ or a light being like Christ, and a person's mind has been programmed by ACIM or another limiting belief system, right from the start this person's guidance will have to work through the barriers that such a belief system represent.

Recall what I've shared before on another thread.  I had a dream where I was at the meditation center of the cult I used to belong to.  At the end of the dream a man shook me vigorously and asked me, "Why did you do it, why did you do it, why did you allow yourself to become brainwashed again?"  He was refering to ACIM.  It took some time to undue the cobwebs that were created.

If there is one thing has helped me grow spiritually, it is a lack of indifference. I seek to do grow not only for myself, but so I can help out in any way I can.  I understand that help is needed.  If it wasn't for the fact that I understand that help is needed, I would not had grown as much as I have.  I would've been complacent. If a person contends that everything is rosey before things are rosey, a big impetus for growth is lost.  Sometimes people grow in love because they make sacrifices for a greater good.


I Am Dude wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:02pm:
Recoverer

Everything we come into contact with is filitered through our belief systems.  Your interpretations of the statements made in the course are probably vastly different from others interpretations.  I tend to be on the side of seeing the positive in things, rather than the negative.  This does not mean I am being misled.  It simply is a matter of my focus being on love and light.  I can discard a statement if it does not resonate with me without having it negatively affect what I read next.  It seems you read somthing that does not resonate with you, and automattically believe the source is misleading and the entire work is a body of negativity and delusion in an attempt to bring people away from love and light.  But then how can so many people read this work and receive nothing but positive effects from it?  Doesnt add up...

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moonsandjunes
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #157 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:45pm
 
Chickadees.....cobwebs......it's all coming together now....
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Lights of Love
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #158 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 8:57pm
 
Albert,

Ok lets try to work with what you have said to me.

Quote:
I did not feel like I'm a bully within my heart chakra when I wrote my posts.  I was careful to look into this when I wrote them. In fact, my state of being felt very positive.

Egotism can be deceptive. The ego can make you feel good or bad. Whenever someone is fixated on something as you are with ACIM and or gurus, etc. this is a reflection of your own consciousness, your own experiences. Just because you feel you were deceived in your own experience does not mean that the author of ACIM or the author any other material intentionally set out to deceive people. What an author says may or may not reflect ultimate truth. However that decision should be left to the person reading the material. You truly can trust that each individual is guided throughout their lifetime and presented with experiences that are the most beneficial for the point of development they are in. Sure sometimes people make the wrong choices, but that is how we learn. To know is to experience. However, anyone’s experience is only relative to his/her self.
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It isn't a matter of being egotistical. It is a matter of my caring enough about deceptive sources not having their way, that I'm willing to speak truthfully about them even though people such as your self throw stones.

Albert, as I have stated numerous times before, I do not oppose you expressing your opinion. It is the way you go about doing it. In this instance you claim that “spirit guidance” told you ACIM was bad. That is not only ridiculous. It is absurd. Any spiritual being of a high quality consciousness would do no such thing.
Quote:
If you were balanced on this matter you would've spoken against a false source of information at least once. But you never do so. Instead you defend them, even when you don't know what a source is about.

You claim that I am trying to infringe upon the free will of other people, yet you never complain about misleading sources that try to do so. Not once have I told a person that you have to believe as I do. I simply share what I have found about sources that infringe upon the free will of people by misleading and brainwashing them.

It is a very sad day indeed if people can't speak out against false sources of information, with out people making accusations against them as you have. Perhaps a book such as Mein Kamf would not had been successful, if more people would've spoken against it.  Some people might say it's not the same thing, partly because they don't understand how insidious it is for books such as ACIM to represent themselves in the way they do.

My belief is that there are light beings that don't just stand by passively while unfriendly beings have their way. I believe this partly because I have helped deal with unfriendly spirits, so they'd stop messing with people. If eveybody just sits around and sings "kay sara sara whatever will be will be" nothing will ever be done to take care of the deceptive forces that try to mislead people.

Actually I neither favor nor condemn any written material, unless I am judging it on the basis of whether or not it is helpful to myself. This is because I have had enough spiritual contact with high quality spiritual beings and understanding of how the entire system works to know that everyone is guided to have the experiences they need to have. What is helpful for one person is not necessarily helpful to another, but that is not for either you or I or anyone else to decide. Everyone has the freewill to choose. I trust the system because I know without a doubt that everyone is led and encouraged to grow spiritually by the entire system.
Quote:
I don't believe it is good to step on people's toes. But such an indiscretion rates about a 2 or 3 on a scale of one to ten, when compared to the indiscretion of not doing anything.  I rate that indiscretion a 10.

I doubt that Christ wants himself to continue to be misrepresented by ACIM. If you don't care about this that's your choice. But please don't tell me that I can't care enough to speak out.

Do you really think Christ needs you to intercede on his behalf? If so this might indicate you are operating from an egotistical attitude. If Christ objected to ACIM or anything else as misrepresenting him or not being beneficial to the evolution of consciousness then no doubt he could simply delete it from existence. Indeed the system itself would eliminate it. Whatever is not beneficial to the whole of consciousness sooner or later becomes extinct.
Quote:
I re-read my posts, and believe that I went along with the flow. I started with one post, and then responded to responses and in one case a question. Is there something wrong with responding?

Again, I have never objected to you expressing your opinion about any subject including ACIM. Only the way you go about it by insisting that you are correct because “spirit guidance” told you so. Perhaps you would like it better if I were even more passive than what you think I am. Ha! If your answer is yes… that is your ego talking.  Wink

If you were to consider making it clear in your posts that each individual does have the freewill right to choose to evaluate the usefulness of any material for themselves, then this passive person may remain passive and refrain from interjecting her opinion. Wink

Kathy
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #159 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 1:06am
 
Recoverer
Quote:
I was in contact with spirit guidance this morning and I received some messages about ACIM. I received symbolic visual images.

One message seemed to state that an unfriendly influence played a part in Helen Schuchman receiving the course.

I don't expect people to take my word for it. All I can say is that this is the message I received. The source of the information Helen received wasn't a former human spirit. The source sought to vere people away from what Christ actually taught and represents. If a source is going to try mislead people, it will try to find a way that will work, even if it has to include a lot of words that seem positive.  The question is, what is the overall effect?


I tend to agree with you, why must we trust some source of truth obtained through another source?, when we can all go to the "GREAT SOURCE" all on our own, Source is available to everyone all the time anyone

Is second hand , third hand information the best?

Alan
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I Am Dude
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #160 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 1:10am
 
Recoverer

You're right, it is important to be able to distinguish what is true and what is not.  This can be said about all sources of information.  Following any line of teaching blindly can be unhealthy. 

My purpose in poking my head into this thread is to express my opinion that it is generally unconstructive to try to falsify a source that brings love and light into an individuals life, because what you are basically doing is putting down what that individual stands for. 

I learned this when I was at a point in my life when I believed the story of Christ was a fairy tale.  I went out of my way to try to convince others that Jesus and Christianity was false.  I felt I was doing them a service, for I believed they were holding on to these limiting beliefs and were being held back from having any experiences outside of the religion.  What I really ended up doing was hurting people, for I was trying to falsify what they believed in, I was trying to take away their crutch of support and faith, although this was not my intention.  I was only trying to help, but I did not succeed.  You cannot succeed this way.  It is not the righteous path.
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #161 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 6:00pm
 
I find common ground with both Albert and Kathy, however I have to weigh in on this subject; that is the notion of truth being relative, and every individual's perception being "right for them."

This is the notion that there is no truth - that we all simply filter things through our own belief systems.  This is moral relativism - and initially, a liberal minded person may think that it seems very reasonable.  Hey, it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you aren't hurting anybody, right? 

The problem with moral relativism is that in a society that believes in it, nothing truly matters.  Nothiing.  Moral relativism also does not hold up to the scrutiny of the logic of the universe and consciousness.  Those who like the idea of moral relativism do not believe in right or wrong, good or evil - whatever you are into, that's fine.  However, exploration from many afterlife sources suggests that the universe is based around indeed our very existence is geared around PUL (pure unconditional love). 

If we take PUL as our reason for being, it becomes the equivalent of the highest good.  It necessarily implies that thought and actions that take us away from PUL are, by definition "wrong" thinking, and thereby the opposite of good.  So starting with the concept of PUL in consciousness, we see that the notion of moral relativism collapses.
In fact, concepts such as "good" "just" and "divine," end up correlating to PUL.  So for the moral relativists, who deny the existence of evil, or wrong, there system does not hold up with the concept of PUL found in afterlife/consciousness exploration.

Now, back to the Albert/Kathy throwdown.   I agree that belittling a system, guru, etc. usually is not going in the direction of PUL.  And yet, there is deception in the world, and much that has come out about ACIM has shown that while it is a coherent work, there may be troubling aspects to it.  Why is it important to discuss this, rather than to let people make up their own minds?

Simply put, because there is truth, beauty, and PUL in the world and consciousness.  And every text or source that claims to represent it may or may not.  If something comes from an unloving source, or with a hidden agenda, not all of us will have the discernment to pick up on it. 

So I would encourage anyone interested in ACIM to read it and decide for themselves, but, to take what Albert says and keep it in mind.  I do not take it for granted that because ACIM has positive affirmations that it is divinely inspired (as presented).  The author herself clearly did not, in the end think so (as on her death bed she was quoted as cursing and saying "that book, that damned book!" 

Keep in mind people that the notion of PUL sets up an order to a universe which filters down to us, and implies that every thought and action is not necessarily just or true.


M
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #162 - Mar 21st, 2009 at 8:51pm
 
I'm not keen on getting involved in the discussion as all these issues have been brought up before, and have been talked ad infinitum without any movement whatsoever. It's surely best to simply let it be.

What I would like to say though is that I've been working through ACIM for months now, and can only speak highly of it. It's incredibly well written, incredibly precise in its logic, and in my experience has definite positive effects on the mind - in that it somehow leads one into a much more positive frame of mind.

My experience is that it works at a level deeper than the conscious intellect, that for sure it has a remarkably uplifting and transformative effect....

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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #163 - Mar 22nd, 2009 at 1:46pm
 
Hi Mathew,

Yes I agree with the points you make regarding moral relativisms. I don’t think anyone is subscribing to that point of view though its been discussed on previous threads. I’ve never read ACIM and would neither encourage nor discourage anyone from reading it. For those that have read it, if it was helpful to their spiritual growth, that’s great, if not that’s fine, too.

Finding something that is not helpful is useful to a person’s growth as well, at least in the long run. I know Albert has said this about some of his experiences. To know is to experience. And each of us gives meaning to our experiences based on our beliefs, which is why I encourage people to have a mind that is open enough to allow change and skeptical enough to not get stuck in yet another belief system.

ACIM will be around as long as people keep it in the public eye regardless of whether comments about it are positive or negative. That’s true for just about any book. Take the Bible for example. It has been around for over two thousand years and has been spoken about in both positive and negative ways. The reason it has been around that long is because large groups of people have kept it in the public eye for all these years. And as long as groups of people continue to talk about and find it useful, even if that usefulness is negative, it will remain in existence.

The same goes for ACIM or any other written material. When a book, or even a concept is no longer discussed or held in front of the public eye regardless of what people say about it, but just the fact that they quit talking or thinking about it will lead it to its extinction. If no one is talking about it, it's usefulness is no longer of value. That is how the system works and evolves.

Kathy
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #164 - Mar 22nd, 2009 at 11:24pm
 
Hey People

It is all about receiving and applying to ones life all that is good, loving and truthful.

Discernment is the key

Love Ya ALL

Alan
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