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Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger (Read 388758 times)
recoverer
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #135 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:01pm
 
I was in contact with spirit guidance this morning and I received some messages about ACIM. I received symbolic visual images.

One message seemed to state that an unfriendly influence played a part in Helen Schuchman receiving the course.

I don't expect people to take my word for it. All I can say is that this is the message I received. The source of the information Helen received wasn't a former human spirit. The source sought to vere people away from what Christ actually taught and represents. If a source is going to try mislead people, it will try to find a way that will work, even if it has to include a lot of words that seem positive.  The question is, what is the overall effect?
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I Am Dude
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #136 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:25pm
 
Remember recoverer...  Focusing on negative, unfriendly influences tends to open one to them and attract them into one's consciousness.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #137 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:32pm
 
Dude:

I wasn't focusing on unfriendly influences at the time.  I was in contact with friendly guidance and received the information in a manner that wasn't mere hallucination.

People can try to spin this anyway they want.  If they don't have ears to hear, they don't do anybody including themselves a favor.


I Am Dude wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 1:25pm:
Remember recoverer...  Focusing on negative, unfriendly influences tends to open one to them and attract them into one's consciousness.

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Lights of Love
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #138 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:05pm
 
The quality of any book or other material is relative to the person reading it and should be judged on the practical value of what it contributes to your personal understanding in ways that help attain spiritual growth.

It is always wise to look for the significance of concepts that lie beneath the words. Interpretation is always personal to the individual and may or may not be significant to others. Take what is useful for your own personal growth. Absolutes in communication are reflections of ego.

Albert, guides and helpers with a high quality of consciousness in the non-physical couldn’t care less about anyone’s ego needs and therefore wouldn’t bother to communicate whether or not a book or other source of material is good or bad, unless of course you’re communicating with a being that has a low quality of consciousness themselves. In that case they are either playing with you by feeding your fears and ego or you are getting this stuff from within your own consciousness. Probably the latter since speaking out against certain sources seems to be a constant past time of yours. I know you don’t see it, but doing that is all about fear and ego.
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I Am Dude
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #139 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:12pm
 
I say this because it is rare that I receive any type of guidance about issues which I am not focusing on.  Some things may be lingering in the back of my mind, almost unconsciously, and when they come to light I realize a part of my consciousness has been holding onto the issue the entire time. 

I have come to realize that if any source is a positive influence in a persons life, then it should be let go at that and they should be wished well on their journey for further truth and knowledge.  I doubt ACIM has influence anyone here negatively, if it has it has not been made known. 

It is very possible that other individuals have received just the opposite information from their guidance regarding this source, and others as well.  Our guidance has been different regarding another source in the past, and nothing constructive came of the attempt to show that source was a negative influence, for it is strictly a matter of perception, and being that everyone has different perceptions, it is a battle that cannot be won, for everyone will have their own truth.

It is true though, these sources may or may not have been negative influences on the individuals who they were being channelled through.    However, if someone can read the material produced by them and be inspired to live more according to love, then it is not constructive to try to take that away from them by making the source seem evil.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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I Am Dude
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #140 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:15pm
 
Agreed, Lights.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #141 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:17pm
 
Kathy:

I believe you are quite wrong about this.  You are engaging in apologetics. I believe this is because you have too passive of an approach to life. I believe it is fine to be loving, but because misleading influences exist, we have no choice but to take a strong stance when misleading influences try to mislead us.

The problem with a source such as ACIM is that quite often people don't just pick and choose. Without their knowing it they get brainwashed by the course and pick up erroneous concepts. Early on my spirit guidance tried to warn me that the course has a brainwashing effect. Yet, I allowed myself to get brainwashed by it for a while. Eventually, after I decided to listen, my guidance let me know that the course doesn't come from Christ and has negative effects.

I believe it is no small infraction that a course claims to come from Christ when it doesn't. If a person doesn't see why it isn't right for a source to make such a claim, and instead a person is irresponsible and makes excuses for such a source, perhaps he or she needs to meditate a bit.

Before I saved my first post I meditated a bit and asked if what I wrote was okay. I experienced a lot of vastness, love and light.  At times I receive silent support in this way. I did not receive a messsage to delete what I wrote.

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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #142 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:24pm
 
Sometimes standing up for the light means having the courage to stand up to those who oppose the light.
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #143 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:28pm
 
Recoverer

I have not read the course.  Perhaps you can fill me in to the erroneous concepts which are provided by the course and it's negative effects?  
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #144 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 2:35pm
 
Dude:

   
1. The course says that this World wasn't created by God, because everything God creates is perfect.  This can lead people to believe that the World is separate from God. It also leads to the assumption that something other than God exists, because it contends that something other than God created this World.

2. Related to number one, when you look at the big picture, despite the problems that can be found within this World, the World isn't imperfect. It is just that we have to go through some growing pains. Unfortunately, it seems like we're going through more than we need to go through. This doesn't mean that God created something imperfect. It just means that as a part of his plan he provided us with free will.

3. The course speaks of how nothing you see is real; therefore, you don't have to be concerned about the troubles in the World. It is true that what we go through isn't permanent and not the ultimate end, but while people and other forms of life live in this World their life is real, therefore, they do indeed suffer. Also, the story of this World doesn't come to an end, until we bring it to an end in a hopefully positive way.

4. The course places too much of an emphasis on the ego. To an extent where a person might end up creating an ego like aspect of mind that is beyond what they are already have. We do exist as individual Souls, and even when we become aware of the oneness again our individuality doesn't go away. The bodies we make use of include a self-defense instinct. If we give this instinct more credit than it deserves by creating an ego like aspect of mind, we give our self-defense instinct too much power. If we place too much emphasis on trying to see that we aren't here, we lose track of the goal of developing ourselves as much as possible.

5. ACIM states things such as we are afraid of God, we have guilt because we separated from him, and that we "hate" God. There is actually a statement within the course that says we hate God. I don't buy this. Regarding guilt, why should we feel guilty about taking part in a growth process that is a part of the divine plan? How are we supposed to learn what existence is about and develop and uniqueness and capabilities, if we don't go through some sort of growth process? I believe the course causes people to create a guilt they didn't have to begin with.

6. The course relies on affirmations too much. Spiritual growth doesn't take place by making a bunch of affirmations. It comes by letting go of limitations. If one takes a path that involves making a bunch of affirmations, one will end up encasing one's self in a belief system. This is true regardless of how positive the ingredients of a belief system seem to be. The fact of this can be seen when one becomes defensive when one's belief system is questioned. True knowledge doesn't need to be defended. True knowledge doesn't need to express it self through the words of a course.

7. The course has many words yet there are things it doesn't talk about one would think a course from Christ would talk about. One way in which people try to brainwash people, is by having a person read basically the same thing over and over again. If you get them to read it enough, chances are they will take on a belief system they will be afraid to question. When I read the course for a while I could tell that it has a brainwashing effect. In the past I've posted an article where course teacher Hugh Prather spoke about how most of the course members he met years after they started the course were very narrow minded.

8. If the course doesn't actually come from Christ, then to the extent it disagrees with the truth Christ represents, it will mislead a person.
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #145 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 5:51pm
 
Albert,

Yes, of course you think I’m wrong. Your ego won’t let you see that what I said is reasonable. The quality of any book or other material is relative to the person reading it. Only that person can decide if it is of practical value to their spiritual growth. That statement is not only reasonable. It is the truth.

Any pervasive attempt to force or strongly insist that you are correct and someone else is wrong for finding value in something that you do not is an attempt to interfere with the other person’s free will choice. If you do not allow other people the freedom to make their own subjective decisions regardless of whether or not you think their decisions are correct, then you are imposing your will on the freewill of another. That is all about ego, being a bully, which is all about fear. It is also spiritually wrong and will not benefit you or anyone else. No spiritual being with a high quality of consciousness would participate in any type of egotistical behavior, nor would they encourage someone else to do so. That is only logical.

Kathy
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #146 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 6:32pm
 
Kathy:

I did not feel like I'm a bully within my heart chakra when I wrote my posts.  I was careful to look into this when I wrote them. In fact, my state of being felt very positive.

It isn't a matter of being egotistical. It is a matter of my caring enough about deceptive sources not having their way, that I'm willing to speak truthfully about them even though people such as your self throw stones.

If you were balanced on this matter you would've spoken against a false source of information at least once. But you never do so. Instead you defend them, even when you don't know what a source is about.

You claim that I am trying to infringe upon the free will of other people, yet you never complain about misleading sources that try to do so. Not once have I told a person that you have to believe as I do. I simply share what I have found about sources that infringe upon the free will of people by misleading and brainwashing them.

It is a very sad day indeed if people can't speak out against false sources of information, with out people making accusations against them as you have. Perhaps a book such as Mein Kamf would not had been successful, if more people would've spoken against it.  Some people might say it's not the same thing, partly because they don't understand how insidious it is for books such as ACIM to represent themselves in the way they do.

My belief is that there are light beings that don't just stand by passively while unfriendly beings have their way. I believe this partly because I have helped deal with unfriendly spirits, so they'd stop messing with people. If eveybody just sits around and sings "kay sara sara whatever will be will be" nothing will ever be done to take care of the deceptive forces that try to mislead people.

I don't believe it is good to step on people's toes. But such an indiscretion rates about a 2 or 3 on a scale of one to ten, when compared to the indiscretion of not doing anything.  I rate that indiscretion a 10.

I doubt that Christ wants himself to continue to be misrepresented by ACIM. If you don't care about this that's your choice. But please don't tell me that I can't care enough to speak out.

I re-read my posts, and believe that I went along with the flow. I started with one post, and then responded to responses and in one case a question. Is there something wrong with responding?

I do admit that there have been times that I have been pushy.  To tell you the truth, I'd rather be pushy than not do anything at all. To just sit by and do nothing...

If more people put effort into discriminating false sources of information and spoke up against them, they'd have a hard time thriving as much as they do.
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #147 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 6:56pm
 
Recoverer

Thanks for the overview.

Now I am interested in learning what truth is contained within ACIM.  Maybe someone on the other side of the argument can give an overview of the concepts which resonate with love and truth. 

I suppose the question here is do the false statements within the course outway the truth contained in it, and what is the overall message of the book?  What is the purpose of the dictator?
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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #148 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:02pm
 
Dude:

As I stated earlier, you can probably find a number of statements within ACIM that resonate with love and truth. If a source is going to try to mislead people, it has no choice but to come up with some lines that are positive. The question is, how many things are stated that are misleading, and what is the overall effect. There is also the matter of what is left out.  In various ways I have found that the course can have a brainwashing effect.  Certainly this isn't a postive thing. There is also the already stated matter of how inappropriate it is to misrepresent a light being such as Christ. I won't bend on this point no matter how large my ego supposedly becomes.


I Am Dude wrote on Mar 20th, 2009 at 6:56pm:
Recoverer

Thanks for the overview.

Now I am interested in learning what truth is contained within ACIM.  Maybe someone on the other side of the argument can give an overview of the concepts which resonate with love and truth.  

I suppose the question here is do the false statements within the course outway the truth contained in it, and what is the overall message of the book?  What is the purpose of the dictator?

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Re: Channeling Agendas: A Reply to Roger
Reply #149 - Mar 20th, 2009 at 7:11pm
 
I think that Recoverer has a good point that he is entitled to his beliefs about the matter. I think there are also some other very good points being raised about interpretation.

Recently I read through all of the ACIM basic series of statements, which build upon themselves, and do put a person into a meditative state, simply because of the language used. Some people might consider that a 'brainwashing' effect, but I found it simply meditative.

I could not find a single thing said which was not true. It flowed perfectly, from my point of view. As a matter of fact, the whole way through I was waiting for the 'whammy' of the 'bad' information there. And it never happened, not for me.

At the time I looked through it, several months ago, I found it helpful, not so much as something to memorize. Just as a way of expanding, of looking at the world a little differently, of opening the heart to love in a different way.

I could feel it.

However, I completely understand why someone else might not feel it.

I agree with the comments that a persistent 'mission' to stand 'against' any particular idea does tend to put one in opposition to others, automatically, and will bring this kind of feedback if it is repeated quite often in a 'small' venue.

Of course, that is all I will say about this matter.... Smiley
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