http://www.astraldynamics.com/

I watched the videos carefully, and tuned in more.  I definitely was not getting those expanded indications that i sense from expanded, highly PUL attuned sources.

  If you really look at the site carefully and with senses open, you might notice certain negative guru like techniques, as well as blatant self promoting salesmanship.  It seems he is very interested in MONEY, MONEY, and more MONEY. Astrologically, i sense a lot of Mars, Saturn, Uranus (of the extremes--both positive and negative), not well used/expressed Neptune (which can be both self and other deceptive), Scorpio, and Leo.

  For any of you folks who live in Australia, what is the Australian take of this guy? 

  Interestingly, there is someone from this site that somewhat regularly posts who is from Australia, but despite that this fellow forum member talk about OBE's all the time, and some concepts very similar to what Robert Bruce talks about, they said they had never heard of the guy when i mentioned Robert Bruce to him. 

  Any other Aussies out there who have?

He definitely isn't my cup of tea.

A lot of people seem to think of him as if he is some kind of master: I don't believe he is.

His discrimination with gurus is really poor. He promoted books by Da Free John (a guru who went by numerous names), Chogyam Trungpa and he also promoted Sai Baba. These gurus are some of the most corrupt gurus recent history has seen. Especially Sai Baba and Da Free John.

He wrote that Sai Baba manifested to him as a being of light. Later it became known that Sai Baba was sexually molesting the male children of his disciples. At first Robert Bruce wrote that this isn't so. Eventually he had to confess that it was. He defended Sai Baba's actions in a number ways that wasn't appropriate.

For example, Sai Baba claimed to be an incarnation of God. Not in the sense that we are all pieces of God, but in the sense he is God himself. Therefore, he referred to himself as an Avatar (a divine incarnation). I don't remember the precise words, but Robert Bruce said something such as "The actions of an Avatar are mysterious." Does this include when Sai Baba did sleight of hand tricks in order to try fool people into believing that we was causing things such as watches to materialize?

Another thing Robert Bruce said is that Sai Baba molested the boys with their consent? Really? Does a child really have the ability to say no when a man sticks his [] into his mouth? Is child molestation ever an okay thing? Why in the heck would an incarnation of God do such a thing?

I can't say for certain, but it could be that Robert Bruce got caught in a lie with that Sai Baba story and had to find a way to cover himself. Yet, he likes to present himself as some kind of spiritual master.

Regarding his site, it seems to me that it is too much about making money rather than proving a service.

A late P.S., I believe it is completely absurd that a person would defend the child molesting ways of Sai Baba. If a person actually believes that Sai Baba had acceptable reasons for doing so, then that person's discrimination is really poor. I wouldn't want to receive counseling at $197 per hour from that person.

Quote:

I wouldn't want to receive counseling at $197 per hour from that person.

  And so often it's about the bottom line. 

  Just the introduction raises big red flags.  He starts off talking about how he will teach you "secrets", and how he's had experiences that few people have had, etc. 

  Classic bait and hook technique. 

Here's a link to the Robert Bruce/SAI Baba discussion.

http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?1893-Robert-Bruce-on-Sai-Baba

Robert Bruce refers to young men when boys were involved.

A key thing Robert Bruce wrote is: "From what I have heard and read, Baba's explanation for the corruption and scandal around him appears to be that he wants people to focus on his teachings, and not on him as a person. It is said that he does not want to be deified, and this kind of behaviour will lessen that possibility. Given the many millions who follow Baba, this seems a reasonable concern."

Without saying anything, I believe the above is absurd. Nevertheless, I'll say something. If Sai Baba had such intent, then why did he do sleight of hand tricks? He did so in order to gain a following.  He used to supposedly materialize one kind of watch, that kind of watch became unavailable in India, and he started to supposedly materialize another kind of watch. I don't know if it is still there, there used to be a video on youtube that shows Sai Baba doing a sleight of hand trick.

Other wise, would an incarnation of God actually molest boys for the reason Robert Bruce stated? If you read some of the accounts of the molestations they didn't take place after a boy consented.

To sum up, either Robert Bruce:

1. Made up a story of Sai Baba and had to cover himself

or

2. Somehow a child molesting fake guru was able to manifest to Robert as a being of light.

or

3. [?].

I thought of something else about Robert Bruce. He wrote a story about how he had an experience where he was given a sword to fight negative entities with, as if he is some sort of spiritual warrior.

I don't have a way of saying for certain whether or not this story is true. I do believe that the concept of killing negative entities with a sword is of a different spirit than trying to help retrieve entities that are caught up in a lower realm of being. I figure that since we all come from the same divine source, the retrieval option is a better choice.

If I were a being that was caught up in a negative state, I would hope that somebody would feel compassion for me and try to help me out, rather than try to destroy me with a sword. I wonder how many people Robert Bruce has misled with that sword business.

This reminds me of the send them to hell exorcism technique versus the help a spirit move on to the light spirit detachment approach.

Some might scoff at this, but I've found that sharing love with another being, even if it is negative, is a good approach. When you choose this approach you connect yourself to God's love and light and their is great strength in this.

An imaginary sword on the other hand, can such a thing actually harm another being?

People need to take care. Just because a teacher can put on a good show, this doesn't mean he is legit. Consider the examples provided by Da Free John, Sai Baba,...

Regarding what Robert Bruce said about Sai Baba's explanation, below is something else Sai said that is contradictory.

"Some devotees seem to be disturbed over these false statements. They are not true devotees at all. Having known the mighty power of Sai, why should you be afraid of the 'cawing of crows'? All that is written on walls [or] said in political meetings, or the vulgar tales carried by the print media, should not carry one away."


The above is from the below article.

http://www.nhne.com/misc/saibaba-pedophile.html

Another thought: It is not surprising that a man who decided to pretend to be God and have millions of people worship him as if he is (SAI), ended up being a child molester.

recoverer, you write that you've found that sharing love with another being, even if it's negative, is a good approach. Would you consider sharing love with someone who is not your cup of tea and a child molester?

The one and only,
God

Yes.


wrote on Aug 27^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

recoverer, you write that you've found that sharing love with another being, even if it's negative, is a good approach. Would you consider sharing love with someone who is not your cup of tea and a child molester? The one and only, God

  There is a more masculine/Yang side of Love which can be expressed as "tough love" and there is a more feminine/Yin side of Love which can and often is expressed as more gentle, accepting, soft expression of Love. Depending on the situation and the person(s) involved, it can be wiser to express one more than the other, but while i speak as if they are separate, they never truly are when one is coming from a more big picture, PUL type love.

  For example, if one knew or strongly suspected that a person was molesting children, it would be loving to try to turn that person in, rather than allow it to continue, both for the sake of the children and future children, as well as the person molesting.  Chances are, deep down at the Soul level of that person, they don't want to be doing that. Most people that molest, have at some point been molested themselves.

  Anyways, surely God should know about all this already?  Or perhaps God is asking rhetorical questions of it's Spirit probes to pass some time in the vacation from eternity?   :-/  :D

p.s., both Albert and i partake in retrievals of those stuck in the lower, temporal hell areas.  Obviously we care about our wayward siblings, and while we don't agree with what they do or have done, we love them just as much as we love Expanded and Love based individuals.  While i wasn't raised in a religious household, i occasionally heard about this Satan character.  I can strongly remember when pretty young, like around 5, thinking that if this Satan was real, that maybe he just needed some  love, acceptance and help.  You could say that i wanted to retrieve Satan. (i have come to the realization though, that some beings might be beyond retrieving).

  If one is coming from the right intentions/motivations, it can be loving also to try to expose "spiritual teachers" that shouldn't be in such a role and/or have a limiting effect on others. 

   Such as Robert Bruce.  However, there are so many of these in this world, that's it's not possible to address all of them as an individual. 

  Also, one has to pick their battles wisely.  Some sources and teachers seem better on the surface than others. If one addresses a source or person that seems ok on the surface, chances are, more people won't even listen to what you say because as they say, appearances can be very deceiving.

  But, i believe there is enough obvious red flags with Robert Bruce's site, and his videos, that open minded people would be more likely to see the points Albert or i are trying to make.  However, if one already has an attachment to Robert Bruce or his material, then it can be a lot harder for them to question it, because of various reasons. 

   Not only is Robert Bruce not a master, he is FAR from it, though i can't say i'm certain to what extent he lacks attunement to PUL and Source.  I'm sure like a lot of people, he is a mixed bag, and has both positive and negative attributes and tendencies. 

  While this applies to the huge majority of us humans, including this self, most of us are not trying to so profit off our supposed superior wisdom, knowledge, and experience.  Boy has the New Age become such a profit driven business.  I have to be honest, this, among other things, bothers me--to the extent that i very much disagree with that.  I can understand people making "some" money off of teaching techniques or the like, or for writing books, but to charge the ridiculous amounts that some like Robert Bruce and others charge is nothing but pure greed and ego on their part, no matter how they may try to justify or rationalize it.

   And yes, i AM "judgmental" and ok with that.  :)

(my Teacher apparently had a big problem with the false teachers of his day who used people for greed and power, and was not shy about calling them out on it either).   

One can pick battles wisely when exposing, but battle is battle. Advice respects freewill, even if later adding "I told you so, lol".

(At times I’ll refer to a Soul as “it” because I don’t want to have to indicate a specific gender). I figure that if a Soul had a way to clearly see the difference between a love-based approached to existence as opposed to a negative approach, it would definitely choose a love-based approach. It would do so not only for its own sake but for the sake of others, because if it understood what it means to love others, it would consider their welfare to be really important.

Free will is an important factor, but if a Soul is so caught up in its ignorance that it can’t use its free will in a way that has value, then perhaps to some extent its conscious free will should be disregarded, so it could get in touch with its divine essence and the truth and beauty such essence reveals.

Such a Soul could in some way be embraced in cleansing energy that will enable some of its negative thought patterns and energy to be cleansed away. Thought patterns such as, “it is really enjoyable to hurt others.” Such cleansing will enable some space to occur within such a Soul’s being, and that Soul will be able to become aware of divine love and peace and the truth and wisdom they include.

Perhaps such a Soul has been misled by another negative being and told that it better do as it is told or it will be punished. While this Soul is cleansed it can be telepathically informed that if it chooses to progress in a positive way it won’t be punished by the negative being that threatened it.

Perhaps such a Soul is afraid to progress towards the light because it believes the misleading dogma that says that it will be punished by God and sent to hell for all of eternity. While it is cleansed it can be informed that this isn’t so.

If I were such a Soul and had nothing but negative, hateful, angry, ill meaning and ignorant thought patterns, I’d want somebody to cleanse them away from me so I could be free to become aware of a more truth-based perspective so that once again my free will would have meaning.

The above scenario would play out in extreme cases.




wrote on Aug 28^th, 2015 at 10:04am:

One can pick battles wisely when exposing, but battle is battle. Advice respects freewill, even if later adding "I told you so, lol".

Quote:

Free will is an important factor, but if a Soul is so caught up in its ignorance that it can’t use its free will in a way that has value, then perhaps to some extent its conscious free will should be disregarded, so it could get in touch with its divine essence and the truth and beauty such essence reveals.

Whether one disregards a soul's free will for their alleged benefit, or the dark version, disregard the soul's free will for your benefit - both disregard free will.

Justin and Recoverer, you are gossiping again.

When will you stop?

Robert Bruce could be the real thing or not, but you wouldn’t know.
He could be making plenty of money or barely any, but you wouldn’t know.
He might be using his money mostly for himself and his family, or he might be using much of it to assist others in need, or giving a reasonable percentage to charity and/or medical research, but whether he is or not, you would not know.

Gossip is the concocting and passing on of what we do not know about another, particularly of what is unsavoury and detrimental.

Gossip is the initial manifesting emergence of most of the evil on this planet.

Gossip causes and inflicts upon people all manner of interpersonal rifts, workplace and societal conflicts, marriage and family break ups, loneliness, depression, isolation, fear, wayward influence, unhappiness…. even wars and economic downturns are caused by gossipers.

Nearly all manifested human strife starts with and is fuelled by gossip. If people did not gossip then there would not be the tiniest fraction of the nastiness and unhappiness that there is on Earth. 

There are naïve gossips who don't know any better, and there are intelligent, crafty and evil gossips who know what they are doing, and there is a spectrum and blending between the two. Crafty gossips camouflage their malicious gossip in amongst seemingly benign gossip.

Some gossipers throw in false qualifiers such as, "I can't say for certain.....", thinking that doing so makes them seem not to be gossiping, but they are. That is just one of the tactics gossipers use to make themselves seem innocent.
   
Many gossipers use inferences and insinuations about others, or avoid directly saying the names of those they gossip about, so they are not saying something directly and not accusing someone directly but their accusation is implied, thinking it makes themselves look less vicious or enables them to deny it or slip out of accountability.   

Many gossipers pretend their gossiping is some sort of beneficial advice to others, even that their gossiping is caring for others.

In the so-called spiritual community there are plenty of gossips. They try to present themselves and their gossiping as spirituality, but they are just elitists, and gossip is one of the tools elitists use. They like to infer the individual they gossip about is of personal or spiritual lowness. 

Many gossip to gain a sense of elevation over those they gossip about, or over those they gossip to, or over others in general. They do it because they like it; it makes them feel to be more than what they are. They gossip to make themselves seem knowledgeable and wise, and to feel influential and powerful. But in reality they are pathetic and insignificant.   

Gossipers have no sincere regard for privacy or confidentiality. They are untrustworthy. Whatever is said to them in privacy or confidence will be passed on and even used as a threat or a weapon if they can.

Gossipers do not have friends, they just use people as allies for their cause. Watch them turn nasty and drop a friend like a hot stone when they find that their friend thinks differently to themselves.

Gossiping is part of a wider unhealthy personality condition. If gossip is eliminated from the character then other unhealthy character traits and inclinations can be eliminated with it. Healthy characters are not prone to habitual gossiping.

Of course, there are also unhealthy characters who do not gossip, but they are less common than those who do.

Gossipers are classic weak characters. Directly and by insinuation and inference they spread malicious things about others, and try to damage others, but when someone criticises them they get even more vindictive.

They are masters of pretending they have been unfairly and overly attacked, playing the victim, claiming to have been bullied, exaggerating the offence made against them, trying to win sympathy from others or create a perception of being in the right, and thereby justify the vindictive response they intend to make.   
   

How to stop gossip:

Although we might train children and youth not to gossip, it is up to adults to govern ourselves.

Let those who gossip, gossip. They cannot be stopped. But their gossip can stop with us. 

When we hear gossip, it stops with us. We do not pass it on.

If we are in a position where we have to listen to gossip, then we should recognise it for what it is and give it the bare minimum of attention it requires. I mean the minimum mental attention by not being curious to hear more, and the minimum emotional attention by not liking it or disliking it, nor believing it or disbelieving it – just barely listening to it as if it is a noise in the background of our attention. But we may still give the person that is speaking to us our full attention, just not value the content of their gossip.

Like a foam wall that absorbs sound without reflecting it. There is no echo from such a wall. So too, gossip stops with us, we do not indulge it, and we do not pass it on.

Despite the evils that come from gossip, it is an understandable human weakness. Having understanding of the natural temptations inherent in being human, and wishing well for others, whoever they are and whatever they do, will help ready our hearts and enable us to neutralise gossip that comes our way.

Not gossiping requires a decision and a commitment to that decision. But old habits die hard. So do not beat yourself up too much if you fail here and there. Just learn the lesson within the mistake and continue on. Even the best make mistakes.   

Some professions formalise gossip, and call it by such terms as networking and liaising. If we work in such fields we walk a difficult line, for we may be expected to pass on information that is just formalised gossip. We should be conscious and discerning, and use our best judgement within the circumstances.

The greatest lesson currently being learnt from the internet is the difference between information and knowledge.  And gossip is just one type of information that occurs on the internet.

Information is not knowledge, it is only information. We do not know something just because we have read it or been told it, or because we think it, or because we like it. We only know it when we have seen it, when we have done it and been it.

We should practice discerning between what we know and what we only think we know.

1796/CB, thanks for the solid advice.

1796- Perhaps one of the best, most incisive and insightful posts in many a moon.  It's a keeper.

R

1796:

If I thought you were sincerely trying to help Justin and I, I would've taken the time to read your post. Since I don't believe this is the case, I didn't.

I read Justin's post because I believed his intentions were sincere. He probably feels the same about mine.

Roger, maybe people shouldn't gossip about ACIM and such.

1796 wrote on Sep 1^st, 2015 at 11:53pm:

Justin and Recoverer, you are gossiping again. When will you stop? Robert Bruce could be the real thing or not, but you wouldn’t know. He could be making plenty of money or barely any, but you wouldn’t know. He might be using his money mostly for himself and his family, or he might be using much of it to assist others in need, or giving a reasonable percentage to charity and/or medical research, but whether he is or not, you would not know.

  So when Yeshua criticized and verbally lambasted the corrupt, money and ego loving Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes, he was "gossiping"?

   In any case, hard to take your preaching seriously.  See this thread and reply/post 18 to see you go on and on about your evil leftist, liberal co-workers and how negative they are:

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1393045262/15

   So when you do it, it's not "gossiping"?  How convenient.

  Btw, you don't seem to understand the meaning of gossiping.  Gossiping involves talking behind another's back in private.  Usually gossipers try to keep the person they are gossiping from knowing exactly who is doing it and what exactly is being said.

  I'm talking upfront, open and honestly on a public forum. I hope Robert Bruce sees this, and knows that some people aren't fooled, but are wise to him and his negative guru stchick. 

    His weird defense of Sai Baba and his molestation of boys is pretty dang unethical for a someone who sets themselves up as a spiritual teacher/authority. The worst con people are those that make money off people's spiritual hunger and seeking whether they are in the religious, New Age/metaphysical, or Eastern guru scene.

   One of the reasons why Yeshua was so vehement in his criticism of the false spiritual teachers and sources of his day.  He even called them serpents/snakes/vipers. 

   I always thought it odd and ironic that we have various checks for our various material areas and subjects--we have consumer reports for products, we have political watch dog groups for politicians, we have whistle blowers for government, we have the better business bureau, home inspectors, etc, etc, etc,

  YET, in the spiritual area and world, we have so little of these types of checks.  Our spiritual growth is the most important thing there is, much more important than getting your money's worth for a car, house, product, material service, etc, etc. 

  Oh the sad irony. 


Quote:

Robert Bruce could be the real thing or not, but you wouldn’t know

  Here at this site, most of us accept the reality of psychism, intuition, nonphysical senses or whatever you want to call them.  As someone that has experienced a lot of verification over the years, i trust my intuition even though i don't always get things 100% right. 

   My intuition fairly blares loudly that Robert Bruce isn't everything he says he is or tries to appear to others as. My intuiton tells me that he lacks spiritual attunement, but is plenty attuned to his lower self.  I don't see him as evil or something that extreme.  In fact, i get a Uranian vibe from him to some extent.  Uranus is of the extremes and those that have it highlighted in their chart, often have high, positive, spiritual aspects/tendencies, mixed strongly with some rather low, negative, lacking in love tendencies. 

  Rarely is there much balance or moderation or consistency with them, and they tend to swing from the extremes. 

  Edgar Cayce was very much a "Uranian" type, as it was his single strongest/most highlighted astro indication.  With that said, Edgar, unlike Robert Bruce, never tried to take material advantage of others, and wasn't all that concerned with money or things for the most part and most of the time, as he was a true follower of Yeshua, whom consistently minimized the importance of material wealth and power.

  Along similar lines.  There is a source that i use to like and recommend to others.  One time, Albert shared with me some information about that source that was less than flattering. It was a video that this source had made about a certain subject that i know a lot about. 

  Because i saw that, i started to question that source more.  I don't think the stuff they talk about where they obviously lack discrimination completely invalidates their whole work, BUT i'm not going to recommend it anymore nor listen that closely. 

   I appreciate Albert taking the time to give me that heads up, even though there was a possibility of me becoming upset at him for popping a hole in a belief system bubble.  If i had been immersed in my ego, likely i would have become defensive about it.

Ever tell someone really into a certain source that there are major issues with that source?  In my experience, most times, most people react rather negatively and "shoot the messenger". 

  For those interested, the source i'm speaking about is Courtney Brown Jr., and the video he shared involved Brown talking about his groups remote viewings of Yeshua (Jesus), and how Jesus wasn't crucified, etc, basically the whole Seth rehashing.   

This is one of Robert Bruce's older sites and salesman endeavors:

http://astralbob.com/manifestationhealing.html

  It reads like one long spiritual infomercial. Notice the outright manipulation tactics, and mixing of truth with falsity and fear for the sake of selling his super duper, like nothing ever kit that will transform your life, heal your body, enlighten you, and which has the objective value of 10, 000 dollars. 

  I think i was overly kind and generous in my previous assessment of him.  He is a con artist salesman par excellence. 

   Please do tell him i say this, as i don't want to be accused of gossiping behind someone's back. Maybe i'll email him a link to this thread.

  Oh btw, i remember listening to him interviewing Tom Campbell. During said interview, he started telling Tom about his experience with a werewolf that was on the roof of the building he was in. No, not an astral werewolf, but a physical one.

   Frankly, to me, this is much more out there than talking about a negative E.T. group that has reptilian features/characteristics.  It's a rather big/immense Universe we live in, but it's a pretty tiny planet.

   

But wait, there's more!

http://astralbob.com/thespiritualfamily.html

"And let me tell you, I DIG FOR THE GOLD!" 

Oh does he ever. Finally, some honesty.  Course, that's not what he meant to convey, but anyone with even a little discernment would be able to see through this guy and his high powered salesman tactics. 


   

Justin, the uranian types are such unpredictable bores, not very capricornish. But God is very predictable in relatively mysterious ways. Here's a link, care to gues what's inside - the Truth about Robert Bruce? A painting by John Singer Sargent? I'll give a clue, it's something on the internet.

http://tinyurl.com/24eg6dn

wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 9:35am:

1796/CB, thanks for the solid advice.

rondele wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 10:59am:

1796- Perhaps one of the best, most incisive and insightful posts in many a moon.  It's a keeper. R

Appreciation acknowledged, gentlemen.


***

I am a firm believer in individual freewill and accountability. Therefore, my same old line: Let all and each of us make sure that any advice, suggestions, information, that comes our way, agrees with our own conscience and best judgement before we follow it or take it to heart.

Being disciplined in this practice will make us strong and independent individuals, decisive, responsible and accountable, will intensify our consciousness, brighten conscience, develop our reasoning abilities and judgement, and will enable us to function at our best and to learn the most from the experiences of life.

I endeavour to speak straight, but instructions are not orders. They are only instructions, there for the following or the ignoring, or partly either. They may be right or wrong. Every individual must eventually learn to consciously walk their own path.   

None of us who would advance consciously should be sheep, but there are those who would make us sheep if they could.

cb

Today I had a funny day that I thought couldn’t get any funnier, then this evening I see Justin and Recoverer’s posts and my goodness, its like laughter therapy on tap.


wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

...  As someone that has experienced a lot of verification over the years, i trust my intuition even though i don't always get things 100% right.

Like last year when you said the world as we know it was going to be destroyed in a few months by some sort of galactic fart.

That certainly wasn’t 100% right – it was 100% wrong. A fantasy. Wishful thinking. 

You might trust your intuition, but no one with a mind of their own would.


wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

My intuition fairly blares loudly that Robert Bruce isn't everything he says he is or tries to appear to others as. My intuiton tells me that he lacks spiritual attunement, but is plenty attuned to his lower self.

Even if you are right, so what. Why do you assume to possess authority to set about damaging Robert Bruce’s business and reputation? The answer, of course, is that you’re an authoritarian lefty, and anything you disapprove of, you believe should not exist.   

Here's more laugher therapy:

Justin criticises me as if I might be the one who wants to hurt or oppress others, for my mentioning some of the ghastly statements and ideas that I so often hear lefty psychologists say when talking about how to achieve their equalised society, and then Justin goes on to say this:


wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:

I always thought it odd and ironic that we have various checks for our various material areas and subjects--we have consumer reports for products, we have political watch dog groups for politicians, we have whistle blowers for government, we have the better business bureau, home inspectors, etc, etc, etc,   YET, in the spiritual area and world, we have so little of these types of checks.  Our spiritual growth is the most important thing there is, much more important than getting your money's worth for a car, house, product, material service, etc, etc.    Oh the sad irony.

That says it all, really.

Of course legislation and some sort of policing and punishment are the only way Justine's ideal spiritual society could exist. And as people resisted, the policing and punishment would have to be increased to meet resistance.  

Well, if the lefties of the western world get their way, which they probably will at least for a little while, there will definitely be such “checks”, “watch dogs” and “inspectors” policing spiritual teachings and enforcing an official state spirituality. Just as Justin would like to see happen. For lefties love rules and regulations, bans and restrictions. It is the only way to equalise a society made of people with freewill, for people with freewill are not equal until they are oppressed. 

And seeing as Justin looks forward to such a spiritually controlled society then I expect he would like to be employed in a role as a spiritual policeman (or rather a spiritual policeman-woman/he-she) making sure that all spiritual teachers in society are adhering to permissible state law spiritual teachings.

You and Recoverer could drive around in a police car marked Spiritual Police, the letters PUL on your uniform shoulders and He-She on your cap. You might even get your own TV show, Spiritual Cops.

♪ Bad boys, bad boys, what ya gunna do ♪ what ya gunna do when they come for you ♪   

That’d be fun, you could kick down Bruce Robert’s door and shoot him in the chest with a tazer, knock him down and jump on him in good ol’ US cop style, squashing him into the ground and twisting his arms out of joint while screaming at him to “RELAX, RELAX, JUST RELAX”. Then you could bang his head on the door frame as you stuff him in the car, and take him away to gulag for spiritual re-education - Justin style.

Then you could come to my place and do the same to me. he he he  I think you would like that, Justine. You could torture me with the tazer until I finally give in and cry out, “Alright alright, Justin is Yeshua’s prophet. I’ll “wake up dude”. Won’t go out of body anymore. I’ll give up bacon. There’s no such thing as silver cord. Yes yes I’ll take my daily estrogen supplements and become a he-she.”
   
Realistically though, I expect Justin and Recov are not quite cut out for the rough and tumble of hands-on policing of spirituality. I expect you would prefer to keep your hands clean. Maybe have a spiritual gestapo of butch lesbians who go out and round up the spiritual dissidents. You might prefer to be a legislator, writing the legislation for official spiritual teaching and practice. Or you could be commissar Justin, head of the Free People’s Division of Spiritual Compliance. Or perhaps you’d like to be a Judge Justin so you could pass sentence on spiritual miscreants like Bruce Roberts, me, and any others who don’t comply with the regulations of Justin’s spiritual police state.

And while you’re at it you could sentence Bruce Moen to a few weeks “education” on reptilian aliens. 

You’d have to get rid of juries, of course. We couldn’t have the public deciding that any spiritual dissidents are innocent and setting them free to keep doing their own thing – like thinking for themselves and following their own conscience.

There should be huge pictures of Justin the Prophet in every city square, and children’s classrooms should have a picture of smiling Justin with a halo looking down upon the children.

Thanks for the laughs fellas. You are so good humoured you lefties. I like people who can laugh at themselves. Its a sign of maturity.

But fun aside, legislating and policing spiritual practice is the most horrific thought I can imagine.

It has happened before though, many times, and it is sure to happen again, for human behaviour tends to be cyclic, especially when the humans don't learn from it the previous time.

Along with many socialist regimes through history, the Soviet Socialists had that same idea. They wanted to police spiritual teachings and practices because those pesky Christians believed in individual freewill and accountability, and believed every individual is answerable for their self before God, and socialists don't allow people to acknowledge any authority above the state, ie above the chief socialists. So they coerced Christians not to attend church by murdering tens of millions of them and intimidating all the rest. Murder and oppression is what socialists do best.   

Quote:

Like last year when you said the world as we know it was going to be destroyed in a few months by some sort of galactic fart. That certainly wasn’t 100% right – it was 100% wrong. A fantasy. Wishful thinking.

   Actually, if you look it up, even many more mainstream astrophysicists and astronomers thought this event would be more of a big deal than it turned out to be--though they did not think it would cause a collapse like Paul LaViolette and i considered possible. 

  I never once said that i got clear guidance that this event is what would cause the collapse that i and MANY have seen for the future.  I did state that earlier i was told soon and within months, but i misinterpreted that to mean exactly within a year when that wasn't necessarily what guidance meant.  That's called interpreter distortion--it always will happen to some extent, until one becomes fully like Yeshua.

  As far as the G2 cloud/Galactic Core interaction, i simply said, it was something to watch for, to pay attention to, and i stated a couple times i was not certain about it. It was, however, an unusual event, which is why i said it might be important to pay attention to. Many centuries ago, Yeshua said that there would be signs in the Sun, Moon, and Stars in relation to the 2nd coming etc. 

  If for example the Sun started to create a huge, unstable Sun spot that was Earth directed, and i was aware of this, i would tell people, hey pay attention, because IF it releases a powerful CME while earth directed, it could fry electrical grid systems. 

Such a warning would not be based on guidance, but more on logic and cause and effect material events.  This is more akin to what the G2 Cloud event was about for me.   

  As i just earlier said, i do not get things 100% right all the time.  No ONE i know does, except Yeshua.  Do you?   It is EASY to be cautious and to never go out on a limb, and certainly if one always keeps ones more hypothetical thoughts to self, then one will never have to experience being wrong in other's eyes.  I find this to be a way of living in fear and ego.

   In retrospect, i should have realized it wasn't going to be that "easy" and obvious as far as the timing of this future collapse.

  Regarding the rest of your rant. Well, it's rather extreme and it would probably be pointless for me to respond to.  You're demonizing me in an extreme manner simply because i called out Robert Bruce on his high powered salesmen tactics, back pedaling/weird defense of Sai Baba and his molestation of boys, and noted your own hypocrisy as regards talking unfavorably of others. 

   Says a lot more about you than it does me. 

   

1796 wrote on Sep 7^th, 2015 at 2:47am:

Today I had a funny day that I thought couldn’t get any funnier, then this evening I see Justin and Recoverer’s posts and my goodness, its like laughter therapy on tap. wrote on Sep 2nd, 2015 at 4:04pm: ...  As someone that has experienced a lot of verification over the years, i trust my intuition even though i don't always get things 100% right.  Like last year when you said the world as we know it was going to be destroyed in a few months by some sort of galactic fart. That certainly wasn’t 100% right – it was 100% wrong. A fantasy. Wishful thinking.  You might trust your intuition, but no one with a mind of their own would. wrote on Sep 2nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:    My intuition fairly blares loudly that Robert Bruce isn't everything he says he is or tries to appear to others as. My intuiton tells me that he lacks spiritual attunement, but is plenty attuned to his lower self. Even if you are right, so what. Why do you assume to possess authority to set about damaging Robert Bruce’s business and reputation? The answer, of course, is that you’re an authoritarian lefty, and anything you disapprove of, you believe should not exist.    Here's more laugher therapy: Justin criticises me as if I might be the one who wants to hurt or oppress others, for my mentioning some of the ghastly statements and ideas that I so often hear lefty psychologists say when talking about how to achieve their equalised society, and then Justin goes on to say this: wrote on Sep 2nd, 2015 at 4:04pm:    I always thought it odd and ironic that we have various checks for our various material areas and subjects--we have consumer reports for products, we have political watch dog groups for politicians, we have whistle blowers for government, we have the better business bureau, home inspectors, etc, etc, etc,   YET, in the spiritual area and world, we have so little of these types of checks.  Our spiritual growth is the most important thing there is, much more important than getting your money's worth for a car, house, product, material service, etc, etc.    Oh the sad irony. That says it all, really. Of course legislation and some sort of policing and punishment are the only way Justine's ideal spiritual society could exist. And as people resisted, the policing and punishment would have to be increased to meet resistance.   Well, if the lefties of the western world get their way, which they probably will at least for a little while, there will definitely be such “checks”, “watch dogs” and “inspectors” policing spiritual teachings and enforcing an official state spirituality. Just as Justin would like to see happen. For lefties love rules and regulations, bans and restrictions. It is the only way to equalise a society made of people with freewill, for people with freewill are not equal until they are oppressed.  And seeing as Justin looks forward to such a spiritually controlled society then I expect he would like to be employed in a role as a spiritual policeman (or rather a spiritual policeman-woman/he-she) making sure that all spiritual teachers in society are adhering to permissible state law spiritual teachings. You and Recoverer could drive around in a police car marked Spiritual Police, the letters PUL on your uniform shoulders and He-She on your cap. You might even get your own TV show, Spiritual Cops. ♪ Bad boys, bad boys, what ya gunna do ♪ what ya gunna do when they come for you ♪    That’d be fun, you could kick down Bruce Robert’s door and shoot him in the chest with a tazer, knock him down and jump on him in good ol’ US cop style, squashing him into the ground and twisting his arms out of joint while screaming at him to “RELAX, RELAX, JUST RELAX”. Then you could bang his head on the door frame as you stuff him in the car, and take him away to gulag for spiritual re-education - Justin style. Then you could come to my place and do the same to me. he he he  I think you would like that, Justine. You could torture me with the tazer until I finally give in and cry out, “Alright alright, Justin is Yeshua’s prophet. I’ll “wake up dude”. Won’t go out of body anymore. I’ll give up bacon. There’s no such thing as silver cord. Yes yes I’ll take my daily estrogen supplements and become a he-she.”     Realistically though, I expect Justin and Recov are not quite cut out for the rough and tumble of hands-on policing of spirituality. I expect you would prefer to keep your hands clean. Maybe have a spiritual gestapo of butch lesbians who go out and round up the spiritual dissidents. You might prefer to be a legislator, writing the legislation for official spiritual teaching and practice. Or you could be commissar Justin, head of the Free People’s Division of Spiritual Compliance. Or perhaps you’d like to be a Judge Justin so you could pass sentence on spiritual miscreants like Bruce Roberts, me, and any others who don’t comply with the regulations of Justin’s spiritual police state. And while you’re at it you could sentence Bruce Moen to a few weeks “education” on reptilian aliens.  You’d have to get rid of juries, of course. We couldn’t have the public deciding that any spiritual dissidents are innocent and setting them free to keep doing their own thing – like thinking for themselves and following their own conscience. There should be huge pictures of Justin the Prophet in every city square, and children’s classrooms should have a picture of smiling Justin with a halo looking down upon the children. Thanks for the laughs fellas. You are so good humoured you lefties. I like people who can laugh at themselves. Its a sign of maturity. But fun aside, legislating and policing spiritual practice is the most horrific thought I can imagine. It has happened before though, many times, and it is sure to happen again, for human behaviour tends to be cyclic, especially when the humans don't learn from it the previous time. Along with many socialist regimes through history, the Soviet Socialists had that same idea. They wanted to police spiritual teachings and practices because those pesky Christians believed in individual freewill and accountability, and believed every individual is answerable for their self before God, and socialists don't allow people to acknowledge any authority above the state, ie above the chief socialists. So they coerced Christians not to attend church by murdering tens of millions of them and intimidating all the rest. Murder and oppression is what socialists do best.

Just quoting for the record. 

Is this really how you want to spend your life? I doubt very many people come to this forum to read threads like this.

It is possible that few people participate on this forum because they can count on these kinds of conversations rather than what they come here seeking.

Justin, you recently accused me of going behind your back and complaining about you to Bruce Moen, something which I have never done about anyone on this forum. You also made a comment about how I wouldn't like the Jesus you insist on defining for everyone on the forum.

I'm not going to reply to anything you have to say in response to this because I am engaged in other activities. But, maybe you can take into consideration that I am not taking sides. I am just saying, this is a waste of time for me and a lot of others who come here.

1796's name isn't Robert Bruce, and that's all I have to say about that matter.

In general though: thoughts about love and forgiveness in times of disagreement and dislikes? I find this to be an interesting subject. Anyone's thoughts are welcome.

Actually, that's not quite what i said or meant Seagull. 

  I figured you and some others used the peer moderator report system to notify Bruce on that other thread.

  Obviously some probably did since posts were erased and moved (and Bruce seems rather oblivious/detached from this site otherwise most of the time), and since you were the one who first spoke up about how the posts didn't belong, i logically assumed you were one of those who used the peer moderating function.

  I didn't consider it a big deal either way.

   As far the other stuff, conflict is a part of life and spiritual growth.  Until we become PUL incarnate, conflict will happen, and sometimes serves constructive purposes. 

Why did Yeshua say, "I come to not bring peace, but a sword" when he was a man of peace?  He knew the potent truth and Light he shared/channeled would stir up the collective shadow of humanity and of some individuals. 

   That would have to happen before true and real peace could be realized. 

   So, i don't see a big problem with Crossbow and i having some disagreement.  Or me pointing out issues with Robert Bruce, etc. 

  All too common on new age sites and forums, people want to artificially suppress/repress conflict.  Why, because it's unpleasant and uncomfortable--just like why many don't want to hear about negative E.T.'s.

  You have a consistent pattern in your various incarnations here of wanting to avoid, not hear about and/or suppress things which are unpleasant/uncomfortable to you, whether they be earth changes/collapse, people getting stuck in temporal hells, people getting in personal disagreements, etc. 

  And that's ok, but do you need to project this need onto others? 

   

   

Justin, it really was all I had to say about it and don't want to comment any replies. I'm tired and going to watch some improv comedy and put the body to bed.

  Goodnight.

1796: My basic feeling is that there probably wasn't a lot of need to speak about Robert Bruce. I suppose people who are interested in techniques, psychic abilities and such will find him interesting. 

I was more interested in speaking about Sai Baba because he has misled millions of people who place his photo on their alters and worship him as a God. My speaking of Sai Baba wasn't a matter of stripping spiritual freedom from others so they will instead worship me.  Rather, it was about getting them to see the truth of Sai Baba and other such gurus so they will be free to decide for themselves.

If you aren't able to see that Justin and myself might have such motivation, then perhaps you are overly attached to having a negative opinion about us.

It seems odd that it is okay for you to make unloving comments towards liberals and speak of butch lesbians, but then others aren't supposed to say anything about gurus who mislead. If you misjudge liberals in the same way that you misjudge Justin and I, then it really isn't surprising that you have such low opinions of them.

I don't really have to say anything about you, because by your own words you incriminate yourself. If you decided to become a guru type, I might point out your unloving thoughts towards liberal minded people, and how you referred to butch lesbians. In order to feel good about yourself, you don't have to put down such people.

If you think I feel judgment towards Sai Baba's Soul, I don't. If I say something that helps others become unattached to him, that not only helps them, it helps him, because such freedom will help him with moving on.

For anybody who doesn't like this kind of conversation, please remember that we aren't in Nirvana, we are in a World where many problems exist, and sometimes they need to be worked out. They won't ever get worked out if everbody just sits on their hands and pretends that nothing is wrong.

I wonder how many Souls that could've helped this World's vibration rate change for the better don't do so as much as they could've, because to varying degrees they are misled by the many false gurus and channeled Sources that exist. Real change isn't going to happen because the correct system, either conservative or liberal is chosen, but because people change inwardly.

It seems as if this thread has been moderated in an inaccurate way because before this post of mine, I wrote another post that shows me as the last poster. If you click on page 3 you can't go beyond page 3 and see my last post and some other later posts.  If you click on "all" you can locate my last post and others out of order. Perhaps there is a system glitch.

Quote:

Real change isn't going to happen because the correct system, either conservative or liberal is chosen, but because people change inwardly.

  Very much agree.  But while it may be outside of the structure of this site.. i've noticed personally time and time again, that while there are some good hearted and older Soul folks that identify with conservative, i've met many more good hearted and older Soul types that identify with more progressive and liberal stances.  They seem to be, in general and as a trend, more open hearted and minded, have more empathy, more tolerant of others in a more universal way except bullies and super bigoted types. 

   Perhaps others have had different experiences with and observations of various people.

   I'm only saying this now because 1796/CB brought up the liberal, leftist, etc thing here first. I don't think there is much point going on about it, other to note the above observation. 

  I suppose this conversation could/should be brought to the off topic section. Perhaps i will start a post there about this growing polarization, which seems to be especially distinct and extreme in America, and to a lesser extent a few other western countries.   

 

   

  If people would like to talk more about the liberal vs conservative issue, please join me in the off topic section here: (I do think it's an important issue).

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1441675855/0#0

  I won't be responding to these issues anymore at this thread.   

Decided there was no point in speculating, so erased some other posts.

Multiple similarities/coincidences are sometimes just that.  I do find the extremity of reaction out of proportion, but there can be other reasons for that as well.

Whether I am Robert Bruce or not, is beside the point.

The more significant issue here is that Justin has made a concerted effort to reveal a forum member’s identity.

   Not really, and i wouldn't even care to begin with if i hadn't seen so many similarities.

  Almost everything that i addressed publicly was gleaned from your and RB's public posts/info, so if you don't want people to know things about you, i suggest not sharing it publicly. 

  And what was shared with me privately, such as your supposed first name, what kind of more specific environment you live at, etc, i did not talk about publicly and wouldn't unless i was sure/certain you were indeed RB. The exception to this, was you telling me that you had never heard of RB.  That was the only thing shared privately, that i talked about publicly, and it says nothing about your identity. 

   Now, if i knew for certain that you are RB, would i share the rest or go into all the similarities?  Probably, because i view RB as a conman, a false spiritual teacher whom is preying on others mostly for reasons of greed and ego. People like him need to be exposed for what they are. It's the same reason why i pointed out specific issues with a certain "spiritual course", or a specific channeler in another case. 

   But since i'm not certain about connections between you and him, i erased the posts pointing out the various similarities between you and him. In hindsight, i probably shouldn't have gone into it to begin with. 

  One of my biggest problems in this life, is being too honest, open, and direct with what's in my mind and heart.  Most people and this world does not understand, nor live this. There is much secrecy, hiding, lying, manipulation, deception, image maintenance, etc--most of it based on fear and selfishness of some kind.  This unusual degree of honesty/directness has gotten me into material trouble more than once. I've been in numerous situations wherein keeping my mouth closed would have been materially/selfishly advantageous as the world and most count it. 

  For those that understand symbols and symbolic language well:  I have a trine between Capricorn Mercury and Virgo Jupiter with less than a degree of separation. The Sun, ruler of my Ascendant is also conjunct Mercury (ruler of the 11th/2nd) and trine Jupiter ruler of 5th, and Mars ruler of the 9th is conjunct Jupiter and also trine the Sun Mercury conjunction.  Jupiter is the planet closest to my Ascendant degree and in my 1st House.  What this translates to, is a repeating pattern indication of unusual degree of sincerity/honesty/directness/openness in both communication and being. 

   The world, and most in it, do not understand, nor like this. 

   

 

wrote on Sep 7^th, 2015 at 12:40pm:

1796's name isn't Robert Bruce, and that's all I have to say about that matter. In general though: thoughts about love and forgiveness in times of disagreement and dislikes? I find this to be an interesting subject. Anyone's thoughts are welcome.

Yes, Ambivalent, that is an interesting subject. And an essential one for any genuine student to study.

Everything there is to know about something is within its definition. Therefore, contemplating or meditating upon the definition is where we start.

Love
We can define love as the following:

Love is the heartfelt wish that another person/s learn their lessons with a minimum of suffering.

Or, put the other way round:

Love is the heartfelt wish that another’s suffering be minimal as their lessons be learned.
or, … as they learn and grow.

Forgiveness
Forgiveness is love regardless.
It is that part of love that we can direct to things distasteful.
It is what enables us to love in all directions.
Forgiveness takes away guilt and shame; relieves suffering; cancels retributive consequence.
Forgiveness is what gives us no excuse not to love.   

Like/dislike
Our love-wish is irrespective of whether we like or dislike those whom we send it to.
Our liking or disliking someone has nothing to do with love.
We can dislike someone, even dislike them a lot, but still wish them well, still wish from our heart that they learn and grow with minimum suffering. And our wishing well for them is felt in our heart and is directed to their soul. It is a wish from our heart that their soul may learn its lessons, and may learn them with the minimum of suffering.
In slightly different words, love is the wishing-well on a soul level to someone else / others, that they learn and grow with minimal suffering, whether we like them or not.


Is your interest continuing to be kindled, Ambivalent?

cb


PS. And by the way, there is this verse too:


Do not love him because you pity him; 
Nor because you admire his achievements (his personality);
Nor because you understand his motives;
But love him because he is your brother man.

Do not forgive him because of sins you see within him;
Nor because of sins he has confessed to you;
Nor because he is a slower man than you;
But forgive him because he carries in his soul the burden of freewill.

Regarding:
1796 wrote on Oct 25^th, 2015 at 1:00pm:

Is your interest continuing to be kindled, Ambivalent? cb

The reason I ask is because I am happy to discuss the subject further.

Perhaps you will put up some of your own thoughts on the matter.

The interest is still here because it's an essential topic. We chatted about this on your blog a while ago. Back then you also had clear and sound definitions as you do now. Adding your definition about harmlessness, and contrast that with defencelessness, it's starting to make sense.

Though I and other readers can have an agreement about the wish as you describe it, the activation of the wish is by it being heartfelt. Contrasting the definition of love by reversal adds a terrible option at the opposite end, and a gradient in between.

Forgiveness is love regardless, and find that to be troublesome if an act is very distasteful. I'm wondering how many times is reasonable for somebody doing very distasteful acts to be forgiven. The imaginary somebody may be on the prowl again and again, and hence allow suffering to continue?

wrote on Oct 26^th, 2015 at 12:11am:

The interest is still here because it's an essential topic.

Yes, it is an essential subject to study for any genuine student of the soul and the human condition.

When I started out on my studies, I was not interested in love and forgiveness, only in leaving the body. After a while I learnt that the subject of love and forgiveness, and its relation (or lack of relation) to like and dislike is foundational and integral with all other knowledge and skills that I would acquire. At first it seemed mushy to me, but as I learnt more I came to realise that love and forgiveness is power.   


Quote:

We chatted about this on your blog a while ago. Back then you also had clear and sound definitions as you do now. Adding your definition about harmlessness, and contrast that with defencelessness, it's starting to make sense.

Yes, all the parts fit and work together.

Now I will say something that may seem unlikely to some, but never mind, I will say it anyway.
About twenty five years ago, after I made my commitment to research and service, I began attending regular tuition and out-of-body lessons on all manner of subjects concerning the soul and the human experience. I did not choose to attend those lessons as we make choices generally. Rather, for some years I had yearned and ached for truth, whatever the truth might be. The ache was constant and all consuming. I lived in state of yearning, aching prayer for truth, whatever truth might be. Then breakthroughs started to come. I learnt to pray and meditate and breathe properly, to make contact with my soul, and to leave the body. After a while I became a probationary student at a school of occult science that exists behind our familiar physical scenes. I was allocated a contact person, whose task it was to assist my learning. A major part of those lessons was to be given countless definitions over many years to take away for to contemplate. I was usually given the definitions one at a time, sometimes two for contrast sake. Each definition was like a jigsaw piece, and over time a great picture was built up. Part of my work was to contemplate each definition, integrate it, and bring it into practice in my life as best I could. Together with studying the definitions I would frequently be taken on out-of-body excursions to varied places to witness events and be introduced to other beings, some human and some not. Everywhere I was taken was to witness or experience a lesson, and every being I was introduced to gave me a lesson. Those verses on love and forgiveness at the bottom of the above post were given to me on one of those excursions, along with their history, as a type of thought-package for me to roll out on my return. 

Studying definitions, contemplating them, ordering and integrating them, bringing them to life in myself as best I could, has been a major part of my learning and understanding. Without doing that work I would never have gained the skills, knowledge and understanding that I have today. 

Definitions are indeed the building blocks of clear and precise thought and communication. They are essential when learning new subjects and for building and ordering knowledge.

It is because of that background and the way my knowledge and understanding is ordered that I always define my terms, and if I do not, then I am always ready to do so when asked.

Things have different facets or aspects, so they can have different definitions, depending upon the angle from which something is viewed. But all its definitions must be compatible with each other, as all sides of an object make up the whole. For example, see above the different definitions of forgiveness. They are different but compatible. 

Definitions circumscribe the boundary; they encase the subject.

A distinction distinguishes between what something is, and what it is not. It addresses and marks the boundary using contrast, for contrast clarifies.

For contrast to provide clarity, something may be contrasted with what is adjacent to it, or similar or related to it, or with what is opposite to it. (As you pointed out, spectrums or gradients often exist between opposing definitions or extremes that are on the same plane or that are in some way in line with each other, and so the contrast carries within it a spectrum of understanding. But not always, for some opposing concepts are like oil and water, they occupy different levels and do not have a gradient or spectrum running between them, but may have steps or stages.)  

Within a definition there is a further description, which is of the detail.

Everything that exists has form, quality and function, so it can be defined and described in all or any of those ways.

I cannot prove or demonstrate the things I write about, but I may be clear, concise, use contrast to clarify, and if what I put forward is not self-evident then I can endeavour to describe the steps to it from knowledge that is more commonly known so that others might take similar steps and obtain their own verifications. Analogies too, can be used to transpose abstract concepts down to more familiar levels, and to connect them onto more general knowledge. Also, make use of examples and stories, for people tend to remember those. These are the methods I use, along with encouragement, which means to enhearten.


Quote:

Though I and other readers can have an agreement about the wish as you describe it, the activation of the wish is by it being heartfelt.

Yes, it being heartfelt - made active in the heart - is the key. There is no secret here. Just work to do. Recite the definition, over and over and over. Contemplate it, engrave it into the mind, think about it, when sitting, when walking, when driving, when observing others and when thinking of others, when dealing with others, when indoors and outdoors, when looking out over the land and the sea. After a while the heart will begin to stir. Put a hand on the heart. When your heart begins to glimpse the concept, then encourage it, just hold onto it, bit by bit, gently feel it beginning to stir in the heart, in seated meditation, in walking, when thinking of others, first on those you like, then also of those you dislike.

It is like blowing on a glowing coal, bringing it to life, gradually opening and firing up the heart. The breath helps facilitate this work. Gently and naturally breathe with the effort, combine breath with the love-wish. Breath is the handle by which we manipulate energy. With your consciousness, reach within and up and draw your breath in from something higher than yourself, then reach out and breathe forth the love-wish out to others, so you are breathing through the heart and the love-wish is moving with the breath. Keep your eyes open, raise your chin a little to stretch the throat, put a hand on your heart, send forth the love-wish, and breathe with it. Over time and practice it will become smoother and powerful. The heart will open, and you will feel the outflow. Practice more, exercise the heart. With time and practice it will learn to open more readily and easily. Eventually, it only takes a momentary effort of alignment, will and breath, and you will feel the heart open and its power going out.

Also, be thankful, for every little blessing, for every lesson of life, no matter how small the blessing, no matter how bitter and painful the lesson, be thankful. Put a hand on the heart and say thankyou three times every day. I promise everyone that if you do this daily and diligently then your heart will open, your outlook will change, your being will transform, and great powers and abilities will come to your soul.   


Quote:

Contrasting the definition of love by reversal adds a terrible option at the opposite end, and a gradient in between.

Yes. Hatred is the desire to harm others, or to see harm done. It is the very opposite of love. And terrible is truly the word.

The relationship and gradient between love and hate may not as it might first appear though.
We might view their relationship something like the following.
If we imagine a cross like so:   +
Then love is at the top of the vertical line, and hatred is at the bottom of the vertical line.
And dislike and like are each at the left and right ends of the horizontal line, respectively.
So we can see that love and hatred are irrespective of like and dislike. They are on different planes.
But we see that this is true only when we have come to understand what love is, as defined here.
For prior to that understanding, a person's understanding of and practice of love is at the far like-end of the horizontal line, and their hatred is at the far dislike-end of the horizontal line.
Such people only know the horizontal line which has hate/dislike at one end and like/love at the other.
Their love and hate are extensions of their like and dislike. Such people love those they like, and hate those they dislike, and they assume others do the same, for they do not know that true love is irrespective of like or dislike. 
 

Quote:

Forgiveness is love regardless, and find that to be troublesome if an act is very distasteful. I'm wondering how many times is reasonable for somebody doing very distasteful acts to be forgiven. The imaginary somebody may be on the prowl again and again, and hence allow suffering to continue?

Peter asked the same question of Christ. (Matthew 18:21) See also (Luke 17:3-4)
His answer equates to forgive as many times as is required.

When the forgiveness is activated in the heart, then one comes to realise that it is a state of being, and a state of healthy heart and outlook, and the number of times that someone does wrong is irrelevant. We should maintain that healthy attitude of heart.

That does not mean we put up with ongoing sin or criminal behaviour. It does not mean we are a pushover. It does not mean we do not take measures to combat criminal or harmful behaviour. It does not mean we have to like those we forgive. We can dislike them, even combat them as required, and still wish from our heart that they learn their lessons with minimal suffering.

For example, in different jobs I have dealt with some very unlikable people, people more unpleasant and nastier than many good people even know exist, and I have often had violent physical conflict with such people, conflict too ugly to describe amongst polite company. But regardless of my dislike for such people, I do not hate them, I do not wish harm upon them, rather I wish them well from my heart to their soul, that they learn and grow towards their better selves with minimal suffering. Remember, we can be lenient (use force with love) and merciful (cease force when it is no longer required).   

Think of it as if you have a brother whom you love dearly with brotherly love. And perhaps in temper he attacks you, then you would defend yourself as required. You might even injure your brother in the process. But despite you having to strike him, perhaps even beat him off or lay him down, you still love him because he is your brother, and your brotherly love would do him no more harm than is necessary to negate the threat.

Your brother might even commit a serious crime against another, and you counsel him to own up and present himself to the authorities because that is the right and responsible thing to do, and it will do him the most good. You support him because he is your brother, you go with him to the police station, witness truthfully and fairly for him if required, but you remain true to your principles of honesty and responsibility, and encourage your brother to such principles as well. If he must serve time in prison, then you visit him and support him. Even if he goes bad in life and ends up walking an evil road, then you may have to disengage from him and set a distance between you, you may even have to face the fact that he has become an enemy of yours and that you live on different sides of the law or of the line of decency, but in your heart you still love him, you still wish for him to learn and grow with minimum suffering, for he is your brother.

It is a good guide for us to view and love all men as if they are our brothers, and love all women as if they are our sisters, and love all children as if they are our own children, and love all older men as if they are our father, and all older women as if they are our mother. We can practice looking at people that way, and treating them that way, and we will begin to feel the love that I am talking about moving in our heart. For love within a healthy family unit is a reflective example of the greater love that we can have for everyone. It does not mean we do not conflict with others, nor does it mean that we do not dislike them and what they do, it just means that in the course of our dealings with them, be those dealings friendly or hostile, that we treat them fairly.   

Whoa.. that is a spectacular post. Need to read it several more times to see what comes up, but fortunately I'm not the only reader.

Use of objective and subjective perspectives

I wish to say some more about love, about how to send it out to others.

But first to contrast two different perspectives which are important for any student of the human condition to understand and perceive. They are the objective and subjective views.

An objective view is when we look at something from the outside of it.

A subjective view is when we look from the inside of something, out through it.

Or put another way, an objective view is when we look at something from the outside inwards, and a subjective view is when we look at something or through something from the inside outwards.

Two Examples:

1.      When we look at a glass fish tank, we are looking at it objectively. When we put our head inside the fish tank and look at it from the inside and look at the room from out of the fish tank, then we are seeing the fish tank subjectively.

2.      When we look at our hand, we are perceiving our hand objectively. When we look away or close our eyes so that we cannot see our hand, but we sense our hand, where it is and what configuration it is in, then we are perceiving our hand subjectively.

Every human quality, condition, emotion, energy, function, state of consciousness… etc, has an objective and subjective viewpoint, that is, it can be perceived from without, and it can be perceived and experienced from within.

It naturally follows that every human quality, condition, emotion, energy, function,… etc, can be defined and described from an objective/theoretical/mechanical view and from a subjective/experiential/operative view.

It is general practice to first approach a subject objectively, then later, subjectively. Or put another way, theoretically then practically, or another way, mechanically then operatively. We learn a little theory, then a little practice, then some more theory, then some more practice…and so on. That is how we learn, progressively alternating objective/theoretical/mechanical learning with subjective/practical/operative learning, and combining the two within our self.   

A careful thinker may notice that everything is relative to everything else, including to its perspective or viewpoint, and so that view which is subjective may become an objective view in comparison to a viewpoint that is further inward or further subjective. For example, we may view an emotional condition objectively such as it appears in someone else, or we may experience it subjectively and personally as we do in our self, or we may withdraw our observing consciousness further within and upward to its position of observation and control in the head and from there observe our emotional condition from a distance. And so we now observe it objectively again, but from the inside rather than the outside. So the terms objective and subjective are always comparative to each other and to other views, and for clarity when communicating it is good practice to include the comparison, as it provides a reference and helps prevent misunderstandings.1

Sending Love

The following definition of love, like those in the above post, is an objective definition. Notice that it is descriptive and theoretical:

     Love is the heartfelt wish that others learn and grow with a minimum of suffering.

Here is a subjective definition of love. It puts the reader within the definition. Notice that it is operative and experiential: 

     May you learn and grow with a minimum of suffering.

Although the head and heart think in different ways, for they deal with different energies, they also share energies and can communicate and cooperate harmoniously. For example, we can take a mentally held subjective definition of a heart quality and function, such as the subjective definition above of love, and we can transfer that definition to the heart, by speaking its words within the location of our heart and as we do we can feel the movement in the heart of the definition’s quality and function.

Within the heart, speak the definition and feel its quality stir. Direct the love energy to the indwelling soul of the target individual/s, not to their personality. Love may be directed to an individual, or to a group, or to everyone, and it goes from your heart to their soul.

Bear in mind that love is not ours to give, but is its own living spirit and is the light and warmth of God. So we must include prayer in our love sending. Love comes from above our self, through our self, and goes outwards from our self.

We can combine breath with our love-wish. Breath is the handle by which we manipulate energy. When we combine will and thought (energy) and breath, we have a potent mix, with all manner of potential. In prayer and with exercising the love-wish in the heart, breathe in love from God above, or breath in from your oversoul, and breathe out love through your heart to others. Love is God's wish for others, so to have love flowing through our self then we must align our intent and heart and breath with God's.   


But why bother sending love to others? why would we do it? The reason is because of its power or effect. Love dissolves unwanted habits of thought and behaviour that others are struggling with of which they have learnt their lessons from and are ready to move on. It thus relieves people of their residual habits and their consequential sufferings. Love helps people grow. It also dissolves our own troublesome habits of thought and behaviour as it passes through us, but that is incidental and not the reason why we do it, for if we try to send out love just for our own sake it doesn't happen. Love is for others first, and our self incidentally.

It is like the example in Luke 11 where a man goes at midnight to ask his friend for bread to feed a traveller and his friend gives him as much bread as he requires, including some for himself, because he has asked on behalf of someone else. So it is with love and all the powers of the soul. God does not send his love down dead end channels but only open ones. As water can only flow through an open tap, not a closed one. The tap must give forth the water to receive it. 

Love also aligns our self with God's outflow, and opens up our soul to all manner of possibilities.       

1 For those who are interested, there is some more on objective and subjective perspectives here: https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/objective-and-subjective/

Some more points on sending forth love

There must be no judgements or assumptions as to what the lessons of life are that others are to learn. It is essential that we have no judgement, presumption or idea mixed with our love-wish as to what the lessons are that others are learning in life, or what they should be learning, or what is best for them. We cannot know what is best for others to learn, neither can we know the line of least resistance forward for the progress of a soul or group of souls. We leave all that to Love itself to do, to God. Bear in mind that, as the light and warmth of a fire draws people to it, drawing on their attention, thoughts, emotions and body, so too, love is the draw of God. Drawn by the light and warmth of God, people find their own way forward from wherever they are towards the fireside, stepping over and around the obstacles in their way. Love does its own work. 

Love respects freewill. Individual freewill is the means by which we each learn and grow.  And love is for freewill. To help freewill learn and grow, and does so without interfering with freewill. If you do not love someone's freewill, then you do not love them at all, for freewill is what they are, and love is for freewill.

The love is not ours to give, but comes from above us, down through us, and outward through the heart. Love is God’s, but is ours to use in accordance with its purpose, which is to alleviate and minimise sufferings while lessons are learnt on the freewill journey, and to light, warm and guide. With time and practice, the love-wish will flow steadily from the heart, the heart sending it, the head directing it, the breath facilitating it. 

After truth, we must value freewill and its potential to learn, more than we value love, for love exists for freewill. When love is valued more than other’s freewill, then love becomes oppressive controlling false and toxic love.

Toxic love

Even love can go wrong while feeling quite convinced it is the purest and truest form of love. If love forgets to love others for their freewill, then it becomes not love but an oppressive affection that stifles others, seeks to restrict the ones it claims to love or care for. It oppresses their freewilled life and their potential to freely learn and grow, and ultimately such love becomes hatred that believes itself to be love. And yet all the time it feels itself to be love, feels itself to be right and good and caring.

For example, see the oppressive love of a domineering and manipulative parent who oppresses the life of their adult “child” right through their life. All the while the parent believing them self to be examples of caring love. The same sort of love is sometimes see in a manipulative controlling spouse of either gender, who treats the other like a puppet, and the marriage becomes a dreadful dance of mutual struggle against each other, rather than mutual helpfulness. And see the oppressive “caring” and “compassion” of those who like to be seen as society’s do-gooders, telling others which words they can and cannot use, and which thoughts and opinions are good and acceptable, and are always looking for another word, item and activity to ban or restrict, all in the name of caring for others. 

Such oppression and suffering is inflicted on others by deluded love, caring, compassion, that feels itself to be so good and right. But it is poisonous and oppressive because it does not appreciate and respect the freewill of others.    

And see the love of those who fall into illicit affairs of the heart, so powerful, driven by blinding misplaced love that feels to those involved to be so true, real and perfect. Eventually the blinding bubble of seemingly perfect love bursts, and with restored vision the affair couple look around and see their families and lives in ruins.

Love is for freewill

So remember that freewill is the potential to learn, and that love is for freewill and its potential to learn.

Love is the heartfelt wish that others learn their lessons with minimum suffering along their freewill journey.

Or put subjectively as a definition to speak in the heart and send forth from the heart:

May you learn and grow with minimum suffering on your freewill journey.   

Heart think:

As we can speak thoughts in our head, so too, with practice, we can speak thoughts in our heart. We can learn to think in our heart. But the head and heart think in different ways, for there is difference in the sensation, force and power of thought in head and heart, and with practice we can come to understand how each thinks, and we can learn to work them both together.

Move towards the quality within the form.

The words of the definition provide a formative structure that houses a quality. Maintain the definition, work with the definition, while coming to sense and know the sensate quality of the love energy within. Gradually you will become familiar with the quality of the heartfelt love-wish and will be able to feel and work with that quality as an energy without having to identify and access it via the definition. But in the meantime use the definition, and even when able to access the quality directly always keep the definition in mind/heart as a guide.

Use of breath    

Breath is the handle by which we manipulate energy.

When we combine will and thought and breath we have a potent mix with all manner of potential.

Combining correct breathing harmoniously with any activity increases our potency.

Get the structure of the effort right first, then coordinate the breath with it.   

Breathe in from God as the love-wish is gathered in the heart; then breathe out to others and send the love-wish forth. Then repeat. Reciting the subjective definition in the head, and feeling it in the heart. Breathe in from God, out to man.

Feel the flow of the love-wish going through the heart. With time it will come to feel easy and smooth.

If you cannot feel it, just pretend to feel it, and that will clear the way, prepare the channels and activate the energies. Pretending to do anything, be it boxing, rowing, driving or whatever, will move and activate those energies and free them up. In reality it is not pretence, it is training and activating. 

In time, as the quality of the energy becomes more noticeable, it will flow smoothly and continually through the heart. Now the flow needn't pause between breaths, but flow continually down into, through and out of the heart towards the target. At this stage the breath, be it inhalation or exhalation, breaths with the flow, facilitating the love's passage down, through and out, with both inhalations and exhalations.

Include prayer       
Love, faith and prayer go together, because this sort of love is not ours to give, but is an outflow from God, as light and warmth is an outflow from the Sun, and the heat/energy of all living things on Earth and their cells comes from the sun. So too, love is not ours but comes from God. So we cannot exercise this love without prayer. Prayer is communion or connection between the soul (consciousness) and God.

Faith is the certainty of God. More specifically, faith is the certainty of God in man, and as such is the power of God within our self. That power is love.

Reach within an upward, beyond conscience, to something higher than yourself - to God, the Great Consciousness of the Universe, your Oversoul, a Higher Power ... whatever is the highest reach of your purest faith. This is faith. Breathe in.

Combine the reaching within and up to God with reaching out to others.

Reach in two opposite directions simultaneously, within and upward to your God, to that source to which you pray and from which outflows the spirit of love, and at the same time reach outward from your heart with your love-wish for others. It is as if we are connecting within and upward to God, and outward to others, so we are in between, expressing the love-wish which is flowing down through us and outward through the heart. So we see that this is faith and love and prayer combined, for love is a prayer for others.

These three things - faith, prayer and love - make us a conduit, like a tap or faucet is a conduit for the outflow of water.

Use of hands

Putting a hand on the heart, or both hands together in front of the heart, will help to activate the love-wish, for within each hand is an energy centre comprised of and representative of all the energies of each of the major centres of consciousness (chakras) that exist over the central nervous system. And these centres in the hands resonate in sympathy with any stirring or effort occurring in a major centre, and thus when the hands are placed near a major centre they serve to activate and draw forth the energies associated with that centre.

Take the hands away from the heart every so often so as to feel the difference.

Thankfulness
The heart has a memory of its own. This memory in the heart is the heart's repository, where the heart's memories are taken and stored.

Thankfulness is reception into the heart's memory - into the heart's repository.

Thankfulness is the heart receiving and storing that which it is thankful for.

The heart's memory is the most secure memory that we have.

What is received in thankfulness is never forgotten.

Thankfulness is the heart opening its repository.

Thankfulness is the opening or yawning of the heart.

Be thankful to God, everyday be thankful, and say it out loud with mouth, and with heart, and with a hand on the heart. Say thankyou for every great and little blessing in your life, and for every lesson in every experience in your life, and for every wonder and every great and little beauty you behold, for every understanding you acquire. Hand on heart, say thankyou.

Whatever you want to remember, say thankyou for, and you will never forget. The heart's memory is eternal. Practice living in a state of thankfulness and see how your heart opens and receives all good things, and even sees and receives the lessons within the unpleasant things. And see how combined with honesty in the mind (honesty is clarity, is the ability to see things as they are, is the medium of truth), thankfulness enables you to see and remember all things.

Practice, play with it, and learn to follow thankfulness with love, and to combine the two. There is much potential within the powers of the heart, such as in thankfulness, love, forgiveness, faith, prayer, hope. Study the heart and its powers. practice them, learn to use them.

Hope, by the way, is the knowledge of what is possible. That knowledge is God's, and is man's to the extent that man attunes with God and requires to know.

God is our first and last teacher of our soul, all other teachers are agents, reflections or echoes.

To perhaps enthuse the interest, the following link is a description of an experience of which thankfulness and its effect upon the heart played a significant part.
https://lacecurtain.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/mother-earth-breath-life-and-god/
It is only one such experience. I have had many similar. But more important to my life are the less dramatic experiences; the subtle more common ones that are to do with everyday living and interactions with others, the way the heart causes the perceptions to open in daily life, the mind to improve its function, and more things to be seen, known and understood, more opportunities to learn and grow, to serve and help others, to see the truth. I know that such experiences are available to others too. That is why I write them; as encouragement. And I include description of the method I have used, so others might experiment and obtain their own progress. We are each a soul created entire with the potential to become perfect, and we each inhabit the same human mechanism, yes in differing states of current condition but we still each have the same potential of soul within the same human mechanism. What any one of us can do, we all can do similar, when we learn to use the soul, the mind, and most of all the living powers of the heart.

The account of seeing the Earth and the dimensions breathing on the link above is naturally an extreme incident. There have been others similar.

One winter's night I was burning the body of an old ram on a woodpile. I sat in the paddock by the fire, enjoying the warmth and the clear starry winter night. I thought about all the blessings and lessons of my life, great and small. The times of pain and hardships and times of joy and ease, and the lessons and growth that is in it all. I put my hand on my heart and said my thankyous to God, including for all the hardships, sufferings and stresses that I had been through and the lessons of life that are within them for my soul. I thought about my mistakes in life, the suffering caused and the learning and growth that had resulted from those mistakes. I thought about how most of my sufferings had been caused by my own mistakes and by my own ignoring of or resistance to conscience. In prayer I presented myself as I am with all my mistakes and weaknesses before God within and above, and asked for forgiveness and also for forgiveness for all others like me who have similar human conditions. I prayed that their souls may all overcome, and learn and grow with minimal suffering. I prayed that others be alleviated from the suffering I had caused them, that benefit come to them. I thanked God for all the lessons of life, for all the growth to be had for all life, and I prayed that suffering be minimal for all people as they learn and grow towards their better selves. Then with my awareness widened, mind clear and heart opened, and with my breathing moving in line with the energies I gazed at the fire and the burning body of the old ram.

I tuned my attention into the element fire, and because my awareness, mind and heart were in the condition they were in from prayer and love and thankfulness, and because it was allowable in my life, my vision was opened and I saw the fire, the wood and the ram's body as it is behind the scenes with all the living energies involved the combustion. My heart swelled and my vision opened further. I tuned into the nature of fire, and followed its path up and down its sliding scale, stream or spectrum. I watched the fire within the matter of all things, at all levels and planes of being, and saw how it worked and what it does and why. I saw smoke and its equivalent energy at all levels and planes of being. I watched the combustion of natural vitality within life between fire and matter. I saw how vitality is processed through fire into refined vitality. I followed the rise of the refined energy from all the fires in all the living beings in all the planes, and saw how the refined energy is being used, consumed and cycled in an amazing way. My head and heart expanded further and I saw the process Earth wide and beyond. I saw great gathering and harvesting processes through the breathing of beings. That was when I first saw the workings of what some people call loosh and how it is processed and used. It is a sense of stress caused by incomplete combustion between fire and matter, but on the subtle layers of our being, not the coarse type of fire that we are most familiar with. I described some of it on a thread on this forum here:
http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1432231022/0#0

It is not imagination but in real sight that I saw these things, for that is the effect that the heart can have on the sight.

So that is another example of how the heart and its energies of thankfulness, prayer and love, can open the vision and perceptions. It can also cause one to rise up out of the body, for one's soul or awareness can be so expanded from the heart's energies that it becomes too much to be contained in the body and must expand beyond it. 

Now to make a significant point:
          
The effect of the heart centre on perception must be treated as incidental, not as an aim

If we try to fire up the heart with the aim of experiencing its effects upon vision and widening awareness and leaving the body, then it will not happen, for the heart does not work that way.

The intent must be upon the energies of the heart for other's sake, and for the sake of growth of ourself and others, whatever that growth my be.

Any of the effects of the heart's energies upon our perception are incidental to what we are doing with the heart.

The prayer, faith, love, forgiveness, thankfulness, come first. They are always the object of our intent and focus.

Any accompanying phenomena is incidental to them. 

Is that clear? I hope so.

So don't get all enthusiastic and think you will develop the heart so you can have second sight and out of body experiences, because that is not how it works.

The heart governs perceptions because perceptions serve the heart

When the heart has been developed or opened to the degree that the physical body and its senses can no longer accommodate its energies then the energies themselves will open up the perceptions wider than the ordinary limits of the body so that you can continue to accommodate and send the volume of energies that are coming through the heart.

It is all for the heart's sake, and for the work that the heart must do.

If you put some selfishness into the process or even if you do not utilise the heart energies upon their expanding your perceptions then the heart will shut down and not open again for many years.

For example: If through much practice your heart is opening and your forgiveness is becoming greater than your awareness of the need for forgiveness in people around you, and so the excess forgiveness in your heart begins to open your awareness and vision so that you can see the sins of others and forgive them, but if instead you just look and do not every time forgive and relieve them of their sufferings then the heart will immediately shut down and not open beyond the physical senses again for another 10 or more years of solid practice, if at all in this lifetime.

Have you ever touched a snail's eye on the end of its stalk and seen how quickly it retracts? That is how sensitive the expanded heart is to selfishness. One touch and it closes up, and does not open for a long long time. Remember the sensitivity of the open heart to selfishness is like the sensitivity of a snails eye to a touch. But the heart closes for a longer time that the snail retracts its eye. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndL4jQ_xqrQ

So do not get too keen on heart based phenomenal experiences, or they will shut down. Just develop the heart for its own sake, practice love, forgiveness, thankfulness, faith and prayer, charity and helpfulness. Exercise and cultivate the heart, nurse it along, develop it gradually, and let any incidental abilities look after their selves. If there is room in your life for extra abilities, and if it be the will of God and of your oversoul, then such abilities will naturally unfold as they are required.       
 

The reason love is for freewill

In the post above about sending forth love, I pointed out how important it is for love to respect the freewill of others and to be for freewill.

If love is not for freewill then the love becomes a toxic controlling oppression that is not love at all, it just feels itself to be love. Ultimately it becomes a deluded self righteous hatred of others that feels itself to be caring, altruistic and loving.

The reason that love is for freewill is because from the great perspective freewill and love go together, each is for the other. Freewill is the potential to learn, and love is the draw of God, the light and warmth of God, it is God's wish for freewill to learn and grow with ease, and provides guidance to freewill, dissolves all unnecessary problems, and gives relief from sufferings as lessons are learned, and God's love will last as long as freewill takes to learn.

Honesty

Honesty is important for any student of truth to understand.

Honesty is not just speaking honestly, as many think it is, although that is part of it.

Honesty is the ability to see things as they are.

Honesty is pure awareness, is pure observation.

Honesty does not superimpose its own ideas, opinions, interpretations, preferences... over the top of reality.

Honesty sees things just as they are.

Honesty has no preferences, except for truth, whatever truth may be.

Honesty is transparency of soul, and clarity of mind.

Honesty is like clear glass.

Honesty is the medium of truth.

Honesty is a characteristic or condition of the soul and mind, of clarity and transparency, that provides a medium for the perception of, reception of and transmission of reality.

Honesty does not come to us so much through valuing honesty and striving after it, for honesty is a characteristic or condition that results from the value of truth, so honesty comes as a result of valuing truth, of wanting to see things as they are, however they are.

We do not become honest by valuing honesty, but by valuing truth.

If first and foremost we value truth, before we even know what the truth is, and value truth whatever truth may be, then the transparency of soul and clarity of mind that is honesty becomes our condition, and we become able to see things as they are, and that is honesty.

Honesty is in the head, and love is in the heart, and they are related and work together.

As love is irrespective of like and dislike, and as forgiveness is love regardless, so honesty has no preferences, and sees things as they are.

Clear the mind with honesty, and clear the heart with love.

Meditate on these things, pursue them, and they will come to you.

***

So we see that honesty is not just speaking things as they are, although speaking things as they are is a continuation of honesty, and is an ability or expression of honesty. Honesty is an internal condition of soul and mind that is able to perceive clearly.

Honesty is not foolish in its expression. It has discretion and responsibility.

In relation to honesty:

Truth

Truth is how things are.

Truth is what is.

Truth is what exists. Truth is existence.

Truth is all existence and its parts.

Facts are units of truth.

Truth is the sum total of all facts. 

There is one truth, and that is how things are.

Truth is reality.

Nothing is outside of truth. All things are part of truth.

Worship truth. Pay homage to truth. (homage is giving of self and time)

Accept the truth, appreciate seeing the truth, whatever truth may be, and before you even see it, and you will come to see it.

Hold on to truth for all its worth, for truth is sanity, truth is reality.

Value truth above all else and come to see it for yourself.

If you value truth above all else, do not expect others to do the same.

People have preferences, likes and dislikes, that distort, colour and obscure their vision, and prevent them seeing things as they are, prevent them seeing truth.

Learn to set aside preference, like and dislike, so that you can see things as they are. 

I've had a bit of spare time lately so I put up the string of posts above because they cover some basics and essential understandings for students of truth, the soul and the human condition.
At least I think so anyway. Some might disagree.   

Content of the posts may or may not be helpful to someone. I hope it is though.

crossbow

    

I appreciate reading your posts, Crossbow.

What is your definition of conscience? Within and without, can you think of anything masquerading as conscience that can be helpful to be aware of? EDIT: I'm thinking an answer to the last question can be used as a means to create smoke & mirrors, so with that in mind, do you know of a way to recognize anything masquerading as conscience without handing out tips and tricks?

wrote on Nov 5^th, 2015 at 10:46am:

I appreciate reading your posts, Crossbow. What is your definition of conscience? Within and without, can you think of anything masquerading as conscience that can be helpful to be aware of? EDIT: I'm thinking an answer to the last question can be used as a means to create smoke & mirrors, so with that in mind, do you know of a way to recognize anything masquerading as conscience without handing out tips and tricks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5j8Jioan1w

The distinction you have indicated is the most critical of all distinctions. And the most tricky.
It is the difference between conscience and emotion.

Emotions are affections, sentiments, moods and feelings; they are reactions as likes and dislikes, wants and not wants, desires for this or that, attractions and repulsions towards things and thoughts of things. They move first as likes and dislikes, become desires, impulses and drives, and effect as sensate feelings on the physical body in the abdomen, chest, throat and hands and elsewhere. There are the feel good emotions and the feel bad emotions, and the energising and energy draining emotions. Emotions are paired and tend to alternate. No one gets to know an emotion without knowing its opposite or the condition that would stir its opposite. 

Between conscience and emotion is self and mind, so these two naturally serve as a wedge which we can use to prise apart the other two. We are our self that wedge.

Although conscience is above the self and emotions are below ↨ and all we need to do is know the difference between looking up and looking down, it is not that easy, for the human state is designed to be disorientating and deceptive, with truth veiled and mixed up with falsity in every possible way all around and within our self. Only by learning to see through this puzzle can truth be fully realised, for truth cannot be known without contrast. First up, though, we must believe in truth, especially that truth exists before we know it, for that readies the mind, makes us receptive to truth.

Those who think they know the truth before they do have snookered themselves and don’t even know it, and those who say there is no truth, only individual perception and opinion, prompt others to turn their back on truth so they can have it for themselves, but then they can’t because love is part of truth so truth cannot go into them.

Regarding conscience and reason, emotion, and manipulation

To some extent I am happy to hand out tips and tricks. The more the general population knows about deceit, manipulation and delusion, what they are, how they work and how they are used, then all the better, for knowledge of the workings of deceit, manipulation and delusion makes deceivers powerless and helps preserve sanity and genuine goodness. It is a sort of arms race though; deceivers get smarter all the time, but so do those who stand with truth.
 
The feel-good and feel-right emotions masquerade as conscience. People everywhere fall into this trap. They think that if it feels good and right then it must be good and right, but they are mistaken.

Then there are those who know very well that emotions are false guides, that they weaken the individual and the collective, and make them easily manipulated. They are the true deceivers, haters and manipulators in the world who are mentally centred but deliberately mislead others by enticing them to follow and believe in the rightness of their emotions.

If we would become proficient in our own self-governance, which all men want to be, then we would do well to study our own psychological makeup and learn how it works, so that we can adjust it, service it, and tune it, so that we understand it and better operate it. As with a motorcar, mechanical knowledge makes us more understanding and conscious of the operating functions of our vehicle and we become better drivers.

Remember when we were boys and would take apart an old wind up clock to see how it works. As men we like to know how things work, and as men who are students of truth and of the human condition we should know how our psychological mechanism works. If we don’t then we are overlooking the most important mechanism that we should study. And our ignorance of it will not only cause us to fall into difficulties of our own making but we also become sitting bunnies for manipulators too.

We should study the nature of emotions, what they are and how they work, and learn to distinguish them from rational sensible thought.

Reason is the ability to weigh up known facts. We should exercise and develop it.
Conscience is our highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do. We should exercise and develop it.
Better judgement is reason and conscience combined. We should learn to bring it to bear upon emotion. 

We should endeavour to become good mechanics and operators of our psychological vehicle.

When you next gaze over a span of water towards the sun, look at the sun and its reflection in the water. Conscience is reflected in emotion like the sun is reflected in water, upside down, diffused, and not the real item. Emotion entices us to look down at that reflection thinking it is the real sun, but it is not, it is water.

We should remember that just because something feels good and right, does not mean it is.

Some objective definitions of conscience

Conscience is the highest sense within our self of what is good and right to do.
Conscience is like a skylight at the inner upper pinnacle of our being. 
Conscience is the crown centre.
Conscience is that part of God within our self.
Conscience is the light and voice of God-within.

Some subjective/objective definitions of conscience

Conscience is my highest sense within myself of how to treat others and what to do.
Conscience is my conscience.
Conscience is faith.
Faith is the (raw) power of God. Faith is the certainty of God-within. Faith is the power of God in man.
Faith is conscience. 
Faith comes in through conscience but the heart is where faith is fulfilled and expressed.
(Faith is not belief. Belief and faith are like oil and water, they do not mix. Belief is an unknown conviction. Faith is the certainty that truth can be known.)   

An example of an assertion to help establish alignment with conscience:

My conscience is my highest sense within myself of what is good and right to do.
I will obey my conscience. 
X 1

Whatever temptations come my way, my conscience is my guide.
Whatever decisions I have to make, my conscience is my guide.
Whatever thoughts I do create, my conscience is my guide.
Whatever words that I do speak, my conscience is my guide.
Whatever actions I do take, my conscience is my guide.
X 10

Repeat several cycles and meditate on the concept.

A repetition that assists in distinguishing self from mind:

I am the rightful master of the mind         X 3
All thought will have purpose, all thought will be constructive    X 1

Repeat several cycles and meditate on the concept.

A warning:

Tread lightly, and cautiously. Do not rush. Think carefully ahead. Be highly observant. Pause and assess every sensation as you advance.

Just like rushing in daily life can lead to accidents, so too, rushing our spiritual development can lead to accidents.

There are slips, and trips, and pitfalls, and all sorts of deceptive traps.

It should be a steady and careful walk.

For example:

The above recitation on conscience might seem quite harmless at first. But it is not. It is potentially very dangerous.   

Imagine if you were to learn it off by heart and recite it every morning and several times each sitting, and meditate upon it, over a period of time.

Energy follows our attention. The conscience is like a little spark, a dull coal. And reciting that affirmation is like breathing on that coal. It gets brighter, and flares into flame, giving out much light.

But what is the fireplace made of?

The fireplace is our personality, our mental and emotional bodies with all their habitual tendencies and inclinations.

Is your personality compatible with your conscience? Of course not. No one's is. In their living, everyone lags behind their conscience to some degree.

Flaring the conscience not only brightens it, it elevates it, increasing the difference between our worst and our best, our darkest and our brightest parts of our self.

All those mental-emotional-behavioural tendencies and inclinations we have that are incompatible with our conscience block its light, cause shadows to be cast down through our mental-emotional-physical bodies. The brighter the light, the darker the shadows. Contrast is the killer.

Conscience is our truest guide and also our most severe punisher.

Conscience uplifts but can also destroy.

Work on the character

Working on improving our character, continually adjusting and correcting our self, adjusting our thinking, our speaking, our behaviour, our interaction with others, must go hand in hand with occult development. If we do not do that work but continue with potent occult development then we will come to grief.

It is like building a fire too hot for a fireplace. The heat cracks the bricks and the house burns down.

It is like a good pianist on and out of tune piano sounds worse than a bad pianist on an out of tune piano. 

Work on the personality/character, keep it up with the brightening and elevating of conscience. Don't build the light and voice of conscience up while leaving it inside, contained within itself, unexpressed, but live it out in thought and word and deed towards others. If we live it out, if we make our character compatible with it, express it in our dealings with all others, then there will be minimal shadows, minimal discord in our system, and we will advance safely.   

   

   

Wow! This is the best post writing I've read from 1796 and Justin!!!..And they both got banned!!!

[quote author=456F636C020 link=1440608438/57#57 date=1462678376]Wow! Just came across this thread today. This is the best post writing I've read from 1796 and Justin!!!..And they both got banned!!??

So there is no confusion, "God" and "Ambivalent" on this thread are the same person. I don't know if multiple name usage extends beyond this. Only God knows, I mean Ambivalent, I mean..."

"Recoverer 2: So there is no confusion, "God" and "Ambivalent" on this thread are the same person. I don't know if multiple name usage extends beyond this. Only God knows, I mean Ambivalent, I mean..."

At the time it wasn't confusing and you had no troubles following the changes. When changing avatar name from God to Loucifier you stated "I wouldn’t feel comfortable with referring to myself as God or Lucifer, because I believe the Lucifer-like potential within myself would choose to do so." In the same thread I landed on Ambivalent and started using a picture of a sheep whose shadow looked like a wolf.

If several avatar names bothers you, have you counted the name changes of your friend?

Uno:

Thank you for the explanation of your name change.

It would be nice if Justin didn't change his name so often. I don't believe he had a negative reason for making changes.

Ok. I can't think of negative reasons neither for changing avatar names, and for me it doesn't really matter. But for the sake of consistency I'll stick with this avatar name.