I am happy to have a short and reasonable exchange with you ladies. Not looking for a debate btw Vicky, just checking in and off again.

Subtle Traveler, our exchange will be brief too, beware of using prior "knowledge" to knit assumptions. Read again and notice what one question and some assertions produce. I wish you a Merry Christmas.

I've noticed that there is some talk on internet land that is anti-hierarchy. (the same people that speak of forced reincarnation, prison planet and such)

I don't believe that there are love and wisdom based beings that desire to be worshiped, but there are beings that are worthy of our love, humility, appreciation, gratitude and respect.

Going by what I have been able to figure out, at first there was a vast being, call this being God if you like (some of the people who speak against hierarchies also have a problem with the name "God").  This being used his/her own being to create the rest of us. Large sub-creators such as the Planning Intelligence Bruce Moen wrote about are also involved. Then there are Oversouls (Disks) that send out many projections, and these "Disks" include co-members and connect to Soul Groups that include other Oversouls and their co-members.

When I consider where I am at spiritually,  I don't take full credit. Rather, I realize that beings before me, God, Sub-Creators, Soul Groups,  Oversouls, Group members, have laid a lot of the ground work that has led me to where I am today. Therefore, I feel grateful and humble about the life I have today. I understand that it isn't solely up to me to determine what this World and the rest of existence needs. I understand that there are beings that live completely according to unconditional love and concept lacking wisdom, they've figured out a way to make existence as best as possible for all, and I am dedicated to doing my part to help them accomplish what they are trying to accomplish.

I have found that spiritual development does make a difference. Such development makes it more possible to connect to "higher" levels of being. If I remember correctly, Bruce wrote that growing in PUL will help you with spiritual exploration.

If a person isn't willing to open up to the greater parts of himself,  because he wants to pretend that he is beyond needing anyone else, his spiritual progress will be limited accordingly.  We aren't isolated from each other, anymore than waves in an Ocean aren't isolated from each other.

It is better to make a conscious connection to the beings of love and light you have connections to, than it is to be misled and controlled by the people who speak as if they are the center of the Universe. A lack of humility and acknowledgement of one's divine predecessors, is not a sign of spiritual development.

If a person truly understood how things work, they wouldn't speak as if the glass is half empty, when it comes to a hierarchy. They would speak in a balanced way that shows that they understand about their benevolent predecessors.

Having a problem with authority comes to an end, when you understand how wonderful and benevolent some beings are, and seek to live according to the same qualities.

Morrighan wrote on Dec 20^th, 2017 at 11:30am:

good for Vicky 

I was probably too blunt 

nice/best place for extras that are off track

Vicky:

Perhaps you should also move Morrighan's post that I responded to, since I responded to words she wrote.

Recoverer 2 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2017 at 9:05pm:


Recoverer2 ...

If you are interested in discussing the idea of hierarchies outside of this off-topic area, then why not just start a new thread on that topic under the appropriate forum category?

Recoverer 2 wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2017 at 9:31pm:


That's a fair statement.  Sorry about that.  Ok, not "way out" but "out".  It's my opinion and I have a right to that.  As admin I get everyone else's complaints so it's only fair for me to have one too once in a while.   

But you have just proved my point by saying "Considering what Morrighan has said in the past".  That right there is one of the issues we've had on this forum for a very long time.  Someone takes what someone says and uses it as a way to bring up the past or a known issue, trying to shift the conversation over to something else that they really want to talk about.   That's a different topic altogether.  It's not what the thread was about or what Morrighan's quote was about.  It was really about something from the past that you want to talk about.  So please just start a thread about that. 

Also, let me quote you some things you said in your reply to her, and you tell me if this seems fair for you to say: 

Quote:


To me it felt like a confrontation and a personal attack on her beliefs.  So I made a decision.  I'm sorry it upset you.  But there's no reason why you can't start a thread about that very subject so that you're opening it up to whomever would like to discuss it.  Just as long as it's not personal or defensive.  It should be in the spirit of discussion.

That's all I'm trying to do as admin is keep those past sore spots from continuing to fester. 

Vicky:

Morrighan made some points on a thread that seem misleading, I stated what I believe on the "same" thread that she spoke on, and it becomes a big problem.

A person sits on the beach watching the open sea. The air is warm and comfortable. The view of that open sea is breathtaking.

This calm lulls one into a stupor when suddenly that person comes out of the stupor and realizes this huge expanse of water has moved closer to that person. This person's feet are almost in the water.

What does that person do? Lash out at the water for being so ugly as to encroach? No as that person realizes that the water has it's own will and will win at the encroachment no matter what.

So the person calmly moves as not to get their clothes wet and that would be very uncomfortable and silly looking.

Why do people clash? or get really ugly with people that are opposite in their beliefs?

In most cases clashes between people is to persuade the other to stop thinking the way they do. The idea is to win them over to the originator of the clashes ideals.

To win people over is offensive. To clash is offensive. The reason why the originator of the clash becomes offensive is because that originator of the clash must realize that each to their own opinion is rubbish. No matter what the tide will always move in no matter what! Never drown in your own offensive behavior. Give in and realize that negotiation is a product of good will.

Understand what the other may need is not a clash but a realization of something different.

We don't need to just give in but to submit to that tide. Realization that what we believe in is just as important as what others believe in.

There is no right or wrong. What there is is a lack of information to carefully select what we think.

If a person has incorrect information who cares! Just send forth some more information and see what happens.

If a clash begins because the other is offended back out and realize the other maybe fixated in their information and persuasion is useless. This fixation on incorrect information basically means that the other is best to be left alone and if many do that the person fixated may get the message or the tide will take care of things by Itself.

I am not offended in my post being moved here. I am not fixated in any ideals and I couldn't care less about originators of clashes as those types of clashers to me are nothing more then those whom live in their own fixated worlds. Best to leave those alone.

If that originator of that clash gets upset about having their message being rubbished so what? Get on with the original topic in that original thread and leave the rubbish in the rubbish bin.

This another reminder that if a message is put in the rubbish bin then find a way to alter one's incorrect information or find out what was said that was offensive (by the originator of the clash) enough to be rubbish.

There I have repeated myself in a different way.

My message was placed in the rubbish bin - so what? Why do others have to argue over this rubbish of theirs. Find out why the message was rubbished by getting new information. Attempting to change another's mind won't work because those alterations of any kind violates the guidelines. Find out why this violation exists.

Is other's ideas rubbish or what? If there is common belief what is that belief based on? We need to find common ground. I have mentioned the subconscious is controversial. What is being said in the area of the subconscious is a learning experience only so why argue and change others from the subconscious when the subconscious is here to say like the tide is here to stay. 

So if the tide is coming in move without argument or face the consequences. The subconscious is controversial and what we think in that area is fluid. So be careful to avoid altering a thread as that thread is important for that information may very well be needed!

I do remind as Vicky does remind that to change that thread in any way does mislead what the original message is. So stating the reminder is necessary to keep the thread on track.

If you find this message wordy and lengthy good as this is another reminder that reminders maybe needed to be over done and said over and over to remind that the subconscious needs new efforts of understanding.