I plodded my way through most of MBT, before abandoning it at Section 6, when I realized that Tom wasn't going to share any of his personal experiences.  "Easy entertainment for the ego," he said, or something along those lines.

I can only agree with Pauli.  MBT is, quite simply, all bark and no bite.  Endlessly repeating the same phrases and even whole paragraphs.  Vague metaphysical concepts with no experience to back them up.  I learned nothing. 

Tom's astral projection advice is perhaps the worst I've ever heard.  After laying out the meditation techniques, Tom states that it may take up to three years, and that when you first experience nonphysical reality, it will be like a vivid daydream.  And that's it!

Tom himself was coached by Bob Monroe and learned to leave his body at will.  (He claims he can leave his body in 2-3 seconds from a cold start.)  Why he doesn't give more practical advice is a mystery to me.

Tom's youtube videos are fairly good, and there are some interesting posts in the forum, if you can get past all the science lingo.  The forum itself, however, is fairly useless.  As has been mentioned before, Tom is revered as a sort of guru, and he does nothing to negate this. 

Since this is an afterlife forum, I believe Tom's views on the afterlife are worth noting.  Tom states that it's all simulated.  Your loved ones meeting you at the end of the tunnel aren't really your loved ones-- they are, in fact, computer simulated models designed to manipulate you into being comfortable.  There's an interview with Tom on "The Path" documentary where this is explained.

This is where I stopped paying attention to Tom Campbell.

As for Seth, I've seen a number of individuals discard the Seth material because of what Seth says about this Jesus fellow.  I have my doubts as to whether Jesus even existed.  There's a book about it, "The God Who Wasn't There" or something along those lines.  That's not to say that Jesus can't be encountered in the afterlife.  He is, after all, a powerful cultural archetype. 

I have no issues with the teachings of Jesus.  If he was real, he seems to be an awakened consciousness, much like the Buddha or Lao Tzu.  If one chooses to walk the Christian path then more power to them.  It's just not for me.

As for Seth, I believe his material contains mostly truth, mixed with some nontruth.  This is the nature of the beast when it comes to channeled material.  We can only weigh our personal experiences against these second-hand sources.

Thank you Eric:

I didn't know about these. I'm listening to them now.

Eric:

Regarding what you said about Jesus and Seth. Perhaps you contradicted yourself.  If Seth is basically trustworthy and Jesus didn't exist, then why did Seth spend so much time speaking about Jesus? Can you really have it both ways?

I've had spiritual experiences that played out in a way that let me know that Jesus the man did in fact live.

Did you check out the link to the chapter I wrote about channeling? If you really consider what I said you might see that Seth spoke about Jesus in an untrue way.

If you try to explain the  inaccuracies by saying that channeling includes some communication gaps, then I'd say that going by what Seth said about Jesus such gaps are so big that channeling isn't trustworthy. What Seth said about Jesus is very specific.

I read Rosalind Mcknight's Cosmic Journeys which includes Explorer session based channeled information, and her book very clearly speaks as if Jesus the man did exist and that he was crucified.

recoverer wrote on Apr 15^th, 2012 at 1:27pm:

Well, they had thoughts of "God", so they got to see Jesus. Apparently they had grown up
in a home with Jesus on the wall. They may end up in a BST.

There could be many reasons for a guide to look like Jesus. Perhaps it was a test to see
if the persons were able to see through a lie? Remember, even Monroe was often tested.

Maybe it was the DeMarco Effect - "show me what I think of or I don't believe you".

Monroe saw an INSPEC and thought it was a higher being. But he didn't mention
Jesus specifically. In fact, the whole of TMI talks very little about Jesus.

Other people may see other guides disguised as their favorite choice of god-like entity.
Some see Arch Angel Michael, others see Buddha, or perhaps some Hindu Shiva.
Guides take all kinds of shapes, but they are just regular discarnate people.

  To PauliEffectt and Eric,

  It's likely that no one "physical" can convince you of the reality or importance of Yeshua, and that you will need to have an experience or guidance message to do so, or will find out later when you fully phase into the nonphysical.  However, those with such experiences, might suggest to at least be open minded to begin with, otherwise, if you are closed based on strong preconceptions and prejudice, then it can be more difficult for guidance and/or your own Expanded Consciousness Essence to "get through to you" with certain messages and info.

  An interesting experience to ponder.  Well before Bob's 3rd book was written, wherein he shares his experience with the mysterious, incognito "He/She" figure--an "immortal" human, in his 1st book, Bob relates an odd, but powerful experience he experienced multiple times.  He talks about that no matter what "focus level" (nonphysical dimension or state of consciousness) he was in, he would sometimes experience the following. 

  All the consciousnesses in that nonphysical dimension wherein he was focused in, would get like a signal of some kind, and they would "lay down" with their bellies exposed (obviously somewhat "metaphorical" or symbolic in nature).  Soon after, an immensely powerful, rushing force and Consciousness would come through.   Everyone seemed to have the utmost respect for this powerful Consciousness, and Bob would find himself going along with the others in whatever focus level he was at. 

He asks in his book, "Is this God's Son?"   'God's Son', is an obvious reference to Yeshua (Jesus Christ). 

  And whatever the case with Bob's experience with He/She and this powerful Consciousness, it's clear that the ultra non religious Bob Monroe became interested in what this "Jesus" figure was all about, for he had his friend at the time, the trained Remote Viewer, Joe McMoneagle, do a remote viewing session on the historical Jesus.  (transcribed in McMoneagle's book, "The Ultimate Time Machine") 

  Why would the ultra non religious Bob Monroe, who clearly didn't have much interest in "Christianity", seek information on this Jesus character?  Perhaps, he had had some experiences and wanted to verify with other sensitives he respected, what he had perceived and/or experienced? 

  Also, before i started my own exploration and communications with guidance, i researched a number of psychic works and sources.  Out of all the ones i looked at, perhaps the most verified and vast work out there is Edgar Cayce's work.   The Guidance that communicated or relayed info via Cayce, spoke often on Yeshua and the exalted nature of his role in the grand scheme of things, and confirmed that most of the N.T. was basically correct, especially the major parts.   Jesus became very spiritually aware, went into a public ministry and teaching endeavor, was falsely accused and sent to trial, was tortured, then crucified, and then 3 days later experienced the resurrection wherein somehow Jesus merged the physical body completely into the nonphysical, and then had complete attributes of both but without the physical limitations that most humans have.

  Emmanuel Swedonborg was another very interesting character, who seems to have wracked up some definite verifications of his psychic perception--not to mention the guy was clearly a genius and ahead of his times in many ways and areas.  He also had many experiences with or about Jesus, and found out that the N.T. is more or less accurate as well. 

  Rudolph Steiner was also an interesting and clearly psychically gifted individual, who again, came to a great interest and focus on this Jesus character. 

   It is easy to think self knows it all, but real seekers keep an open, but slightly skeptical or questioning mind.  If numerous, respectable psychic oriented sources with verifications are saying similar things about something, then perhaps, just perhaps there is something to it despite self's preconceptions or prejudice.

  More personally to you Eric--it's obvious that Bruce Moen has a very high regard for this Jesus character as well.  It's perhaps a bit understated at times, but it's clear enough through capitalization of He and Him in relation to Jesus, that Bruce was led to take some bible classes, and Bruce's exploration partner, reported seeing parallels between the concept of Christ and what they were perceiving about the "Planning Intelligence".  You don't have to be personally interested in Jesus to learn and understand that he plays an important spiritual role in relation to humanity in various ways.

  Also, there is a big (and obvious!) difference between being interested in the Christian religion and being interested in him outside of religious dogma, belief systems and institutions.  There are a number of people who don't care for the former (including me), but who can separate Jesus from this and realize that he is sort of like the Guide of guides in this Universe.



    Re: Thomas Campbell, one of the things i find worthwhile and respect about his work, is that he emphasizes some about the importance of diet and health on the bodies ability to perceive the nonphysical or use or focus through, higher consciousness perception in general.  This kind of info is solely lacking in Bob Monroe's and Bruce Moen's work, and Tom's teachings is a nice, balancing compliment to their work at least in this way. 

  (others that also add this balance are Rosalind A. McKnight's work and Edgar Cayce's guidance, which my own repeated experience and guidance has confirmed in multiple ways)

  Re: Tom Campbell again: I have listened to some of his explorer tapes, and some of the Earth changes stuff that his guide "Thor" relayed.  I find it interesting how off the timing was about these.  T.C. and/or Thor, seemed to think that these would manifest by the 80's.   Yet, his fellow explorer, Rosalind A. McKnight's guidance sessions indicated that it wouldn't be until noticeably later. 

This is also true for what Cayce's guidance said, indicating that by '98, these changes in the Earth were and would still be gradual and not cataclysmic in nature. 

  This brings up some questions or issues about what Tom received as regards the dating.  A few possibilities that i can think of.  Tom garbled or mistranslated some of what he was receiving.  Thor didn't fully know what he was talking about (not so expanded and aware).  Possibilities or probabilities were such at the time of the explorer session(s), that major changes could have manifested that early but later changed due to freewill or other influences, or Thor was giving deceptive/misleading information for whatever reason.  I don't know which possibility or possibilities, are the most accurate or pertinent ones.

  In any case, perhaps this is an indication to not place T.C. on such a high pedestal, as i've seen so many place him on?  Obviously, i also completely agree with Albert that T.C.'s supportive words about Seth, also indicate that he can have errors of perception and particularly in that case, really lack deeper spiritual discernment at times. 

  I don't mention these things because i have anything personal against Tom, from what i can intuit, Tom is basically a mature and wise person, and seems to be a good hearted person with good intentions.  I mention these possible lacks, only because i have seen, first hand, how much others think and consider him such an infallible guru figure and how little he actively tries to counter balance such limiting views about himself. 

Quote:


1. It clearly is not God or Jesus.
2. Monroe didn't ever seem to come back to this experience, so perhaps it happened while he
still was mostly traveling in BST areas?
3. People did not worship this entity. No one even comments the event.
4. It may be yet another test of Monroe's guides, to see if Monroe would fall into the religious BST trap.
5. No one else of the TMI school seems to mention it.

Quote:

Campbell thinks that The Big Computer (TBC) continues to do lots of calculations between
every time increment of the physical (PMR), and TBC calculates possible future developments
in those "gaps" in time to see how well AUM can predict future development.

Some astral travelers may enter such regions of "calculated" probable futures.

Because these calculated simulations of our future look exactly like our reality, astral
travelers may be tricked into thinking that they in fact are seeing future events, when
they only are seeing probable and not actualized events. This may explain why future
predictions fail ever so often, as the OBE person has _not_ seen the future, just seen an
estimation of what _could_ happen in one of many possible future realities.

Campbell also mentions that some future developments are more likely than others,
and that may be the reason to why some predictions come true. Many TBC calculations
lead to the same branch in the digital tree and have a higher probability of actually
happening.

What makes the future take a certain direction is "free will" of PMR's inhabitants, which
functions as a kind of randomness factor. That's also the reason why AUM needs to
run simulations with consciousnesses locked in PMR, according to Campbell.

Reason is that if there was no randomness in the events, TBC wouldn't need to run
a full simulation of PMR, and could instead calculate all the future with an absolute
certainty in one go.

Rosalind McKnight most likely was out on one of those branches of possible futures,
which will never be actualized.

PauliEffectt wrote on Apr 16^th, 2012 at 5:42am:


Why "clearly"?  Does not asking "Is this God's Son?" clearly indicate that Bob Monroe was wondering out
loud if this was Jesus?

Quote:


  In his book, he states that it didn't matter where he was in the nonphysical, that this somewhat unusual but not super rare event would occur and he perceived it in the same manner no matter where he was focused.

Quote:


  Consciousnesses "in the know" about Jesus, do not worship him as some religious people do.  They do have the utmost respect for him and what he exampled, overcame, and attained in his life as a human.  Every time this powerful, rushing Consciousness came through whatever dimension Bob was focused in at the time, all the consciousnesses in same, Bob perceived did a similar thing.  He interpreted or translated it as them exposing their bellies.   

  Nonphysical experiences are not "cut and dry", they often have to get interpreted symbolically, allegorically, and/or metaphorically via physical and physical like symbols so that the conscious, personality mind can understand, translate, and interpret it.  For Bob, being a more physically focused person at the time, the act of him and others exposing their bellies to this powerful Consciousness symbolized their immense respect for this Being.  It's akin to the animal world and how some species show their respect to the "top dog", by exposing their vulnerable "bellies" to it.  Spiritually, one could say that Jesus is of the very highest consciousness for an individualized consciousness.  Fully and completely at one with the Source.

  Personally, i would have used more clear symbolism than Bob did, but this was in his early days when he had issues of fear, over attachment to the physical, and was still a very intellectually focused kind of person so his interpretation at the time is understandable from where he was at the time.  It's likely that if he had and talked about this experience much later on, like in his Ultimate Journey years, that he would have used rather different interpretation and translation.

Quote:


Possibly, but this experience always involved other conscious, freewilled, former humans and again, happened in various different levels/dimensions/focuses. 

Quote:


  Well, TMI was set up by Bob Monroe and Bob Monroe and TMI have largely taken a very Yin approach to others and their experiences.  Mostly wisely, they don't interpret others experiences because they know that usually it's the person who had the experience who is most qualified to interpret same.  Like i said, this is mostly a wise stance, but i do think they have and do take it a little too far at times, and have created a belief system and too fixed approach out of this. 

For one, there are other variables involved.  There are Consciousnesses, in both the physical and mostly the nonphysical so called, who are so aware, so mature, so empathic and connected to the Oneness of the Whole, that they can "tune in" to others very clearly and can, from a knowing space interpret others experiences in an accurate and helpful way.  Also, if they are really mature and expanded, they can know a person better than they know and perceive themselves even because they can literally merge their Consciousness with any other.  In other words, truly they know their Oneness with the Whole. 

  Bob Monroe was so individual focused and oriented at times, that sometimes he took it to an autocratic level in his absolute injunction to not ever interpret others experiences, etc.  Case in point is the relationship and events experienced between him and a woman named Melissa Jager he appointed as the director of training (training of the trainers) at The Monroe Institute.  She was in this position for 7 years, during the somewhat earlier years.

  She was fired by Bob Monroe because to his mind, she had crossed the line one too many times in "interpreting" others experiences.  In Melissa's mind, she wasn't so much interpreting their experiences for them, as trying to provide a helpful, philosophical frame work, so that they could better able handle, ground, and integrate their mind blowing experiences.  There was such a lack of structure at TMI in the early days, such a lack of a larger philosophy that some people that were having these mind blowing experiences were having a difficult time with these belief system crashes, etc. 

  It seems that Melissa was trying to help people, not hinder them, but to Bob the iconoclast, it really bothered him and so much so that he fired her rather coldly.  Perhaps both of them were both right and wrong at the same time.  Perhaps both were taking their own respective positions and approaches too far?    The main difference seems to be that Melissa was more Yang in her approach with others, and Bob more Yin in his approach with others at least in this sense or area (he could be extremely directive [Yang] in other areas). 

  It's interesting to take a deeper look at Bob and where some of his beliefs and approaches originated from.  Bob had had a rather authoritative father figure and seemed to have had a more difficult relationship with him than he would let on or admit to others.  Plus, it seems clear that Bob came to rather dislike religion and religious people--had a lack of tolerance towards these, especially in his earlier days. 

In other words, Bob really, really did not like others "preaching" to him, telling him what to do, believe, etc.  He had issues with "authority" to some extent.  He was more or less practicing the relative "golden rule" when he formulated his beliefs of non interference with others when it came to their psychic or nonphysical experiences.  There was definitely wisdom and higher guidance involved, but again, very little is black and white in this world and much is relative and a "one size approach or fit" doesn't always apply.  Some of it came from his intense dislike of authority and his attachments to this. 

  I believe (rather intuit) he created karma to balance when he fired Melissa the way he did, for being different than him and his absolute approach. 


Quote:


  I'm well aware how the future works.  As regards future probabilities, my point is that it was T.C. that has been very off with the timing of these events, and so far Rosalind's guidance and Cayce's have been much more accurate as regards the general timing (though the latter's work has really been misinterpreted by many through the years). 

  My intuition tells me this is because they were viewing things from a more expanded level and perspective than T.C. was at the time and more clearly translating and interpreting the data.