Here is a video of our "Savior" President Obama, telling us quite strongly that we should not question at all the official 9/11 report and explanation.  Notice the very strong/absolute language he uses. 

  Then it segways into Bush telling us that we should not tolerate any outrageous conspiracy theories involving that event. 

  Do you ever feel like you live in Oz, when you see this stuff?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuASoVK8f9c&NR=1

  Earlier on the Bin Laden thread i did not address the Pentagon incident. 

  This video is worthwhile to watch regarding this issue. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

Is there such a person as an 'average American'? Could one opinion ever represent an 'average' anybody?

Speaking for myself, it was a long time ago. Whatever happened and how it happened becomes a distraction from the everpresent fact that TPTB desire war without end, without our permission, as a country. The last presidential and other elections have shown that a significant number of people here are tremendously unhappy with spending priorities in this country and in the world. We do not like what is happening and we do not know how to change course. It is like trying to stop a 'mudslide'. Who knows what to believe anymore? Who knows who to believe? It is not true that taking 'action' is always better than taking 'no' action. Those who are truly peaceful are not always seen and not always heard, and that's the way 'blowhards' would like it to be. 'Blowhards' like the sound of their own voices and the excitement of power. They like to 'stir things up'. There is 'change' and there is change. Some things don't ever change. As we get older we dislike so much drama, and finally we are free of it.

PauliEffectt wrote on May 14^th, 2011 at 1:47pm:

Quote:


  At the time that President Obama was running as a candidate for Presidency, i was involved with an intentional community that was based on principles of equality and group cooperation. 

  I was heartened to see how intensly and collectively people got their butts into gear and mobilized to enact political change by going out and trying to gain support for Obama.  "Change" was all around; everywhere one looked people were talking about change for the better. 

  It seemed to me that Americans had finally woken up from their slumber of apathy and complacency with the status quo and really tried to do something about it all. 

  Yet, it was missing an essential ingredient.  An awareness of how far gone the system has become, how much of a strangle hold that corrupt, materialistic-selfish forces have on the true decision making process at the highest levels of government. 

   I believe that Obama is full well aware that 9/11 was an inside job.  I believe that is why he gave the speech above, because he knew how much he is listened to and considered by the many that voted for him. While many are starting to wake up to being fooled by him, there are still many under his spell and expect amazing things from his admin.

  When i was at the intentional community, i remember hanging out with some long time members, and they were excited about Obama and were campaigning a lot on his behalf.  I was asked what i thought about him, and not wanting to burst any bubbles of enthusiasm, i tried to generally explain that my intuitive sense had told me that he is not the change we are looking for.  I explained this is why i was not part of the campaigning process that so many i knew were actively part of. 

  Course, the human part of me wanted to be hopeful and enthusiastic about him, but deep down i knew the political system was too far gone to let a person for truly deep and positive change in a position of more influence like the Presidency.   I knew Obama was a ploy, and a much more believable and sincere seeming puppet than was Bush and some other past Presidents. 

   But the truth eventually wins out.  I think Obama, and the hidden benefit of this Administration will be that it will teach Americans as a whole, that this system is too far gone in it's corruption, deceit, and secrecy.  That if we truly want to enact positive change, we have to start from scratch from the grass roots up.  Whether or not we actually do something about it, once we've reached that awareness, is another issue and my crystal gazing ball isn't telling me the outcome yet.

  When the boat you are in has so many large holes letting in so much water, rather than trying to patch all these holes in vain to avoid sinking, it's best to abandon the boat and build a new one.  It might seem more difficult, challenging, and scary at first, but it will be the wiser choice in the long run. 

   

hawkeye wrote on May 19^th, 2011 at 6:49pm:


  Hi Joe,

  You generally strike me as a pretty intelligent and reasonable man, so when i read stuff like the above from you, i'm left somewhat puzzled. 

  My only explanation is that probably you haven't researched all the facts, for example this hard evidence found:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IL9Yrf4nxg

  When i see and read stuff like this, i begin to see the official Government sponsored version of the 9/11 attacks as the "conspiracy theory" that holds no water.   

  Not to mention the rather obvious stuff like that Tower 7 fell within itself in almost free-fall speed and without being hit by an airplane. 

  Really think about that for a moment...  Probably why a lot of engineers, physicists, architects, building constructors, and similar folks have come forward and questioned the official explanation.  Who would know better, politicians who easily lie or change their positions often for a living or people with real world experience and training in these kinds of areas?

  Where are the "conspiracy theories" in the above Joe???

  What is implied by such hard physical evidence,  numerous circumstantial pieces of evidence, as well as multiple eye witness testimony, is the "theory" part of it, because we don't know for certainty why some U.S. gov. connected groups "helped" out in the taking out of these buildings.

  But we do know that a relative of President Bush was high up in the security involvement and oversight of the Towers.   

  If Bush and his admin. (and possibly other forces or groups connected to them) wanted to help bring down these towers, they certainly had the access to do so.

   Joe, i gotta say bro, i've been noticing a definite pattern in my researching AND communication about this issue.  I often see people reacting like you do in the above, with strong emotional and generalized wording and communication, with a real lack of discussion regarding the physical and circumstantial evidence, and the eye witness testimony facts. 

   It really does seem like a "shoving under the rug" kind of reaction and seems to be so common among people who support the official gov. story.   

  I can't take "arguments" and "debate" like this, all that seriously, even if i know before hand that the people doing so are intelligent and well meaning.  It's not personal, i'm just a heck lot more interested in getting to the truth, and besides all the above issues and points i've brought up, there is my intuition and i've come to learn that i'm a very intuitive person.

  So Joe, please bring something of substance and holistic logic to the table, and then we can have a real discussion and not Joe's religious like proclamations of belief. 

recoverer wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 12:46pm:


  So true.  While i don't remember if i actively made fun of the whole reptilian thing, i do remember being highly skeptical of the concept, because i only saw people like David Icke speak about the validity of same. (at the time, i wasn't aware of other, more serious researchers like Mack). 

  From what i'm aware of, Icke has said and done some pretty outrageous things, which made him and his info much less credible in my eyes.  Some of his reptilian info in particular is really "out there".  Shape shifting, reptilian Presidents, etc. etc.   

  So i started to develop 'blinders' when it came to certain concepts he talked about.  (Sometimes i wonder if Icke is on the pay role of certain groups with a vested interest in discrediting certain info and awareness's).

  But thankfully more credible sources, like Rosiland A. McKnight who worked with Bob Monroe back in his lab as one of his explorers, spoke about the reality of a non friendly E.T. group being involved in with the Earth.   

  Hawkeye/Joe despite being a vocal supporter of Rosiland McKnight and her work, apparently isn't open minded to some of what her guidance outlined, or he "missed the memo" on that one.    (speaking in general, but also let's not forget that her guidance outlined it was probable that humanity would get involved in an out and out war with this same group around the mid 21st century mark.)

  Well anyways, sources like her and her book "Cosmic Journey" helped to keep me open minded about such stuff (then later Courtney Brown's adapted Remote Viewing work).  Then Becky and i started to have dreams about this issue, which confirmed the truth of an unfriendly E.T. group being involved with Earth.

  Then more specific "reptilian" info came.

  That old saying comes to mind, "sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction" in such cases. 

recoverer wrote on May 20^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:


  Relating to the above:  It's been a common observation of mine when looking at others and sometimes self, to notice that often (but not always) what we accuse and criticize others about, is often a dynamic, aspect, or tendency within that we don't want to be fully aware about ourselves. 

  I believe it's called "projection" in psychology, though i may be wrong. 

  So, when someone loudly and emphatically tells me how fundamentalist i am (as Joe did to me on the food/drink thread a couple of times), i often just shrug and often ignore it.  I bring it up now, since what you said relates to a deeper point, and to a larger spiritual message.

  I believe awareness of this unfriendly E.T. group being involved with the Earth is of particular importance at this point in our evolution.  If Courtney Brown's work and info is to be believed or considered at least, then apparently many Light Beings from many different worlds, including this one, are VERY concerned about the Earth right now in relation to this group.

So aren't the Gray E.T.'s concerned and trying to help us with this issue. 

  Apparently Rosiland McKnight's guidance thought it was an important issue, otherwise, why would they have mentioned it a couple of different times?

  Even without the support of other, outer sources like the above, i would still talk about this issue because my intuition and conscience tells me that it's an important issue for humanity to become aware of now.

  Btw, i've just started to read up and research on John Mack and his hypnotherapist work with people who had been abducted. 

  What he says and learned, confirms a lot of what Courtney Brown learned through his adapted remote viewings. 

  Even though he initially thought that the Grays might be malevolent because of their abductions of humans and the traumatic effects on their conscious selves, he later learned once these people worked through their fear, that often there was a spiritual connection between these folks and the Grays. 

  I find John Mack MD to be a credible source since he was the head of the psychiatry department at Harvard Medical School for a number of years, was a very well educated man with a very respected reputation (until he started to talk about this out there stuff), and put that reputation on the line.

  In some ways, he reminds me of Bob Monroe.  Because both men had a good, worldly reputation, and put their reps on the line when they came out with their "weird" ideas and experiences.

  John Mack received A LOT of intense criticism and denouncement after he came out with his research into these areas. 

  Interestingly, i first read that he died from a car accident.  I had the intuition that maybe it wasn't an "accident". 

  Then a bit later, i found out more specifically that he died as a result of a hit and run.  Bloody convenient that one of the most credible and outspoken people in this field, died this way and that our Gov. and groups connected to same really don't want this info to be believed by the masses. 

  A firm belief or knowing about the reality of E.T.'s and their involvement with the Earth, could potentially change so much in our way of life here and our perceptions. 

  For one, it would potentially wipe out the energy business, because we could get technology from E.T.'s which made our finite, polluting, and limited resourced energy a thing of the past, and people wouldn't have to pay very much for what would be mostly free and clean energy. 

  Think how much the energy industry of today would just love that idea of all those billions of dollars going down the tube. 

   Anyways, there would be so many fundamental changes to our society and ways of thinking and perceiving, that those in power who do know about this reality, want to suppress the more full and complete knowledge of as long as they can for reasons of selfishness and materialism.  In short they like an ignorant and dumbed down peoples because they are easier to manipulate.

  So yes, i think it's likely that John Mack was purposely killed, rather than some random accident.

  I think i will start a thread about this E.T. issue somewhere. 

 

Here are some highlights of the second link Ralph provided.  Perhaps those are enough miracles to cause somebody to wonder if something happened other than what was told.

THE MIRACLE

On the day of the hijackings the US Government is running drills with its Air Force where it is simulating "Multiple Hijackings of Aircraft" within the United States of America. This drill causes great confusion amongst Air Traffic Controllers as it provides a "Cover" for the real Hijackings. Without these drills it is very possible that the Aircraft that were hijacked could have been intercepted far earlier. Certainly one has to consider this some sort of "Miracle"

Surely "The hand of ???"

The Miracle

Months prior to the hijackings the US Government changes the rules of engagement for hijacked Aircraft. Now in order to send up planes to intercept, the approval of the Defense Secretary, one Donald Rumsfeld, is required. Unfortunately he goes missing for 30 minutes, on the morning of the attacks, again impeding the ability of intercepts to be flown. Not only this but on the day of those intercepts, supersonic US fighter aircraft that are scrambled suddenly have a top speed of only around 200 MPH.

Surely "The Hand Of ???"

The Miracle

The US President is on a pre-scheduled event in a school in Florida. The Government has no idea of how many Aircraft have been hijacked or what the targets of the hijackers are.  Indeed, given that the president’s location that morning had been televised, the President himself might well be a target. Yet, rather then rush him to safety as they are trained ~ and expected ~ to do, the Secret Service is certain the President is not at risk. They let the President sit in the classroom and continue with his story about a pet goat for the next half hour ~ even after he was told the second tower was hit. A miracle of faith if anything.

Surely "The Hand of ???"

The Miracle

Five Israeli Citizens manage to be across the river from the WTC towers and are in place to film the planes crashing into the towers. Great is their Joy as they realize that the United States will certainly discover that Al Qaeda is the Culprit and this will lead to the destruction of Israel's many enemies. How they came to be there is certainly a miracle, and that the attack lead to the destruction of their arch enemies, the Iraqis, even more so. Why, after traces of explosives were detected their vans by bomb-sniffing dogs these men were inexplicably released by the police, only adds to this miracle. (They later admitted during an interview on Israeli television that they had been sent to the the United States “to document the event”, but no one asked them who sent them.)

Surely "the Hand Of Yahweh"

The Miracle

No steel-framed buildings in the history of construction had ever suffered total structural collapse due to fires, yet on this single day, within hours of one another, THREE buildings collapse after fires burn through them. This even after Firefighters claim to have had the fires under control.

Surely "the Hand of ???"

The Miracle

All three towers collapse neatly into their own footprints, exactly as they do in controlled demolitions, at freefall speeds—I.e., in the same time it would take apples dropped from the roofs. All 110 floors fell as if nothing existed beneath them but air.

Surely "the Hand of ???"

The Miracle

The owner of the buildings slips up on national television and admits that he ordered one of the towers (building 7) to be “pulled”. A “Pull”—jargon for controlled demolition—requires months of planning and preparation. Yet, no one to this day has asked this man how he managed to achieve this incredible feat in a matter of hours, and amidst the chaos of 9/11. The 9/11 Commission surely must also have assumed this to be a miracle because they did not even address this in their report. That the insurance company paid out 7 billion dollars without even the slightest investigation—even after the owner’s admission of a ‘pull’—only compounds the magnitude of this miracle.

Surely "the Hand of ???"

The Miracle

Jet fuel is essentially refined kerosene. It burns without problem in millions of steel stoves, heaters and furnaces around the world every day. Yet on 9/11, in less than an hour, this innocuous substance MELTED all the massive steel beams of three skyscrapers and caused the structures to collapse like pillars of sand in less than 10 seconds. How do we know the steel melted? Firefighters and other first responders reported seeing molten metal “flowing like rivers” in the basements of the collapsed buildings for several weeks.

Surely "the Hand of ???"

The Miracle

Six months before the 9/11 attacks, the cluster of buildings that constitute the World Trade Center are purchased by a private investor for a relatively paltry sum of $200 million. (That was the first time in its 33-year history the complex had changed ownership). The new owner has the foresight (again miraculous, no doubt) to insure the buildings against terrorist attacks. The buildings were never seen as being profitable. In fact, because of their extremely high asbestos content, the structures had actually been condemned. Yet to destroy and rebuild them by conventional means would have been prohibitively expensive. It is indeed a miracle that the investor was paid $7 billion by the insurance companies after the attacks. A miraculously handsome return on an investment of $200 million.

Surely "The hand of ???"

The Miracle

Immediately following the acquisition of the WTC complex, the new owner makes it a priority to change Security companies. The CEO and a director of the new security company are none other than George W. Bush’s brother, Marvin Bush, and cousin, Wirt Walker III. It is a double-miracle that this same company is also responsible for providing security to American Airlines and the Dulles airport ~ both closely associated with the 9/11 attacks.

Surely "The hand of ???"

The Miracle

Billions in profits are made off put options shortly before 9/11 wherein investors made up to $15 billion in a frenzy of trading betting that certain stocks would fall in value over the next few days. These included stocks in the two Airlines that would suffer most from 9/11. In fact, the profits were so staggering and unprecedented that it caused Bloomberg News to exclaim: “This would be the most extraordinary coincidence in the history of mankind if it was a coincidence. This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you’ve ever seen in your entire life. It’s absolutely unprecedented.”

Little did Bloomberg News know that it was in fact a miracle.

Surely "The Hand of ???"

The above mentioned miracles are but a small sampling of those that occurred on 9/11. People who do not believe higher powers had a hand in these are surely blinded. The number of coincidences that occurred in those few days is mind boggling. Terrorists’ passports that Miraculously survived fireballs and landed blocks away...the Miraculous bag that did not make the flight that included the names and details of every hijacker...Persons receiving Miraculous warnings out of the ether not to fly on that day...Cell phones Miraculously working from 30,000 feet where they had never worked before...People who couldn’t fly a little Cessna performing Miraculous corkscrew maneuvers in Jumbo jets...The list of Miracles on 9/11 is virtually endless.

“???” has certainly spoken

Or is this the evil work of man ? 

To be continued .....

  Hi Albert,

That is one of the best summary's of all the convenient coincidences or "miracles" surrounding the events on and leading up to that day, that i've yet seen in one place. 

   How people can deny at least the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job when faced with such a compilation of all the circumstantial evidence strongly implying an inside job...is completely beyond me.

  That most of the mainstream media and even most the so called "liberal" parts of same, still try to cast people who don't believe in the official explanation as "nutters", paranoid conspiracy theorists, or the like is beyond me, though not completely in this case  since all major mainstream media sources are owned by what like just three corporations which are some of the wealthiest and most influential in the world. 

  That there are people even on this site that believe strongly to the former is really beyond me, because i've always thought that most here were truly open minded and independent thinkers. 

  An ever puzzled with humanity human wondering..wondering..wondering.


  I wonder what Hawkeye, Don, Rondele, Andy B., Ginny, and other strong naysayers here have to say about such a summary of "miracles".  Do the cats now have their tongues?   

Divine intervention maybe?  Simply just anomalous happenings, or multiple convenient coincidences?  Or perhaps all these are just simply made up myths and lies designed to support the crazy conspiracy camp?





 

hawkeye wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 7:00pm:


  Hawkeye/Joe, same old same old eh.  I'm still not taking your "debate" seriously, because you still aren't actually addressing any of the facts or evidence, much of which is well known and have been reported in various mainstream media channels. 

  You're still just making huge generalisations with no substance or facts whatsoever to back them.

  You're still just loudly proclaiming the "truth" in a very religious and dogmatic like manner. 

Quote:



   I'm glad you liked the "The Miracle" list. But even that just scratches the surface of intriguing anomalies from that infamous day. Here is an even bigger list of questions in need of a good answer:
http://www.rense.com/general24/t500.htm
I would copy them here like recoverer did with the first list, but I think it would be too long to show (500 questions).

Quote:



   See what you think of the bigger list from the link above. You remind me of my cousin Joe (name coincidence). He also is very intelligent and treats the 9/11 subject in the same way as you. He thinks that it was a sequence of incompetent errors that allowed the crashes to happen.
Quote:

   That's a good point you made. Since I don't have that ability yet, I was hoping that someone from this conversation board would have contacted at least one of the victims from that horrible day and learned what the victim knows about the reason for their untimely departure from physical existence.

   A good "other side" source of information would come from the airplane passengers themselves, who may not have even been on the actual crash planes. Here is an interesting story that elaborates on the plane issues:
http://letsrollforums.com/happened-passengers-4-flights-t20496.html?s=53c6127089...

   As yet even more food for thought. There's so much more involved with 9/11 that I never mentioned, like the mysterious vanishing wings and passengers from the Pentagon crash, and missing airplane debris from both the Pentagon crash and the Shanksville crash.

   Here is an important update on disclosure of what happened to the World Trade Center buildings:
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/931/331/WNL/Exclusive:_Last_Man_Out_Makes_Shockin...

   It seems that the truth may finally come to light on the tenth anniversary of 9/11/2001.

   Here is a well written article about 9/11 by Paul Craig Roberts:
http://rense.com/general94/911after.htm

   For anyone who hasn't researched, this offers a lot of food for thought.

This is a great video that can help to unmask the cover up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU&feature=related

   At least I know now I'm not crazy for believing that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job according to these professionals of the mind:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/%3F-older-posts-psychologists-questioning-9...

   I prefer in believing people with high credentials like scientists and engineers rather than the corrupt government and it's propaganda machine like the mainstream news media.

   Yes, those pesky reptilians. I have a book that I read some years ago that mentions them:
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/godsofeden/
   This knowledge is now currently being presented by David Icke:
http://www.davidicke.com/

   Hopefully after 12/21/2012 the good races of beings will take control and free us human slaves from the reptilian's grasp.

New information about the culprits of 9/11 has now been revealed. Please watch this 15 minute video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3jnFtSElH4&feature=player_embedded

   A very well done research. Maybe this will now be enough to convince everyone as to who really did it.