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Yes, that's true. And one frustrating thing is that people have been making that point and trying to answer it "scientifically" for at least 100 years, and we still don't have a definitive answer.

And another problem is that everything else we talk about here can be subjected to the same criticism, and has been , and is. Undoubtedly there are people who make the same criticism of everything Bob Monroe did. Some people probably think the same of Chris Carter, who's book is being discussed over on Beau's thread. How do you think Bruce's thread on a new technique would sound to someone who doesn't know how hard Bruce has worked to talk about verifiable information?

So if we criticize the, um, aberrant "mediums" without giving a basis for why they should be excluded or a basis for what is genuine and not theatrics, then we open up all else we do to the same criticism.

It all boils down to what the individual personally experiences and how that person interprets it within the context of his ot her current culture.

I don't know how to tell the difference between a fake medium who changes his or her voice on purpose from someone who may experience some kind of valid psychological shift that has an accompanying voice change associated with it. I don't know the limits of what is possible.

________________

Of course, I don't think the people who fake mediumship are half as "bad" as the folks who created the toxic assets, but that's another story, even though I think they are of the same mentality. :)

Doc-

Just to add a point to your post- I think most if not all of us would agree that there's nothing more important than to understand the meaning of our life and how best to fulfill it.

I can't help, in this regard, to think of Mother Teresa and how she led her life.  She gave up all material comforts to help some of the most impoverished people on earth, and did so in horrible conditions where disease and starvation were rampant.

She understood that her purpose was to help others. 

I personally am convinced that even one day devoted to helping others is worth more than a lifetime of reading what channeled entities have to say about this or that.  Or more accurately, what charlatans who claim they are in touch with "highly advanced" entities have to say.....

There's nothing easy or entertaining when it comes to making personal sacrifices in order to better the lives of those less fortunate. 

It's much easier and yes, entertaining, to read about alien invasions or end of the world scenarios, or insects in the afterlife (!).  But ultimately it's a dead end road.  It doesn't do one thing to advance our own understanding of why we are here.

The Golden Rule is essentially the be-all and end-all of all teachings.  It is far more important than anything Ramtha, Seth, Elias, or any of the other so-called "teachers" proclaim.

R

I believe what Doc said about the authoritative nature of supposed channeled entities is key. I doubt that a true light being would want to come through a person in a way where a cult-like following is created that benefits a channeler financially.

I figure light beings realize that one of the key problems with this world is that there are too many mindless followers, and not near enough independent thinkers.

Regarding Ramtha, I watched a video of a former JZ  Knight body guard, and he said she was clearly a fake. He also said she had a good ability to remember what she read and then regurgitate it. One day he found a book in her bedroom, looked at the words she had highlighted, and the next day while supposedly channeling Ramtha she spoke about the subjects that were highlighted with her own spin.

There was one occasion where Ramtha (JZ) told people not to go towards the light after they die. This troubled JZs followers. Because of where she was positioned she couldn't notice how agitated they were. During the intermission her security guard let her know.

After the intermission, in order to get her followers in line, she told them that they shouldn't go to the light after they die because if they do so the reptilians will get them, steal their incarnation memories, and then send them back to earth to incarnate again so they can collect some more memories.

I believe it is quite misleading to tell a bunch of  people who believe they are listening to an authoritative light being named Ramtha that they shouldn't go to the light after they die. Hopefully none of them follow her STUPID and irresponsible advice.

Kudos to Shirley Mclaine for helping JZ Knight become more popular. Perhaps it would have been good if Shirley realized "it is okay" to use your discrimination when it comes to channeled sources.

I believe it is important to add that we don't want to set things up so light beings don't have a way to communicate to us, but we need to look for the tell tale signs that let us know that something is amiss. For example, a person/channeler who has a bunch of followers who have lost the ability to think for themselves.

I think someone also mused about why peopel are attracted to this stuff.

I was thinking about that one day when I was in a foul mood. I have two jobs, neither of which I am overly fond. I have a very p/t schtick in a retail chain; I keep at it because of silly reasons, so it is not reasonable that I should get so annoyed with the customers, except all my coworkers do too. No matter how hard you work, there is a subset of customers who destroy the store, pulling things apart in their feeding frenzy shopping and leaving the place looking like a herd of five year olds descended for playtime and left all their toys in the floor. Why do adults do this? I could expand on this but I won't.

My other job is as a non-medical support role in a hospital; my work sometimes has me in the ED, which used to be called the ER but believe me it is more than one room. Not every case in the ED is television-worthy, which is a good thing because it is often sad when they are. And I know some of the less dramatic cases are still really sick,. But when I walk around and see the people, many of whom are medicare patients (this hospital has >50% medicare patients I think) and all of whom look ...lonely and scared and other things, I wonder what the connection between the behavior that drives me nuts at the retail store and the attitudes that bring folks to the ED is. Are the people who tear up the store the same ones who end up in these beds? Sometimes I wish some of these folks could go for reiki once a week; it seems what they realy want and need is attention. or they don't know why they are there.

and when I really ponder it , I am reminded of the quote "men lead lives of quiet desperation." Good ole Massachusetts boy said that.

What Thoreau said can be found many places, here is one:
http://www.trivia-library.com/b/origins-of-sayings-the-mass-of-men-lead-lives-of...

And I think the folks who go to Abraham or Ramtha or whatever are trying to not get to the end of their lives and find they have not really lived.

And the ideas about reality may have been around for centuries (Millenia maybe) but the churches aren't teachijng that, so people go to Abraham and Ramtha because they are. Where would you have them go? Please don't send them shopping to quiet their minds because I just got my section in order again and I want to keep it that way for a few minutes.

But I don't confuse the message and the messenger. Not sure you should even do that with Jesus.

I've never sat in a church and heard a practical explanation of how to apply Matthew 7:7. Which is the real thing I'm interested in!

I think (our) Matthew's remarks on the subconcious mind are really important. I think that is a topic worthy of deep analysis and discussion. I think some of the teaching of the subconcious mind used to be done through "fairy tales" but now we take a more direct approach when we talk about it. We take it to a new level that way too. Funny...the way to the higher self seems to go "down" through the subconcious mind.

Regarding applying Matthew 7:7, it basically says keep on trying. The process of becoming a soul who can open up to divine inspiration is a process, and I've found that it doesn't tend to happen all at once.

To the extent we choose to cling to the attachments that prevent us from opening to divine inspiration, to that extent we won't be able to, no matter how much we make affirmations.

I believe that humility, grattitude and a desire to serve divine will and others is key.

Fortunately, most people can only be deceived for so long before they inexplicably long for a change. Without such longings, and changing desires, we would all most certainly be stuck for quite some time. Sometimes my reality seems so fluid that I'm not sure what 'world' I'm in, but to trust self is key, to know self...and as some say, each of us are each other's teachers. But, only so far. That is because we are created equal, but also unique. Wouldn't this planet be such a bore without us all in it? And by all, I mean all beings, whoever they might be.

I believe there is a big difference between people who share what they have found without claiming to be infallible, without seeking followers, and without seeking to be put on a pedestal; and people who intentionally mislead others, claim to be infallible, seek followers, and seek to be put on a pedestal.

I believe what is key is how much somebody understands that when he (or she) shares information, it is essential that he doesn't do so in a manner that interferes with somebody else's ability  to think for himself. Such a person would do his best to not get others caught up in a belief system that leads them astray and hinders their spiritual growth.




Lucy wrote on Jan 10^th, 2011 at 4:34am: