Conversation Board - Question to advanced Retrievals

NoName

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Question to advanced Retrievals
Jul 4^th, 2009 at 3:38pm

Do You ever had a doubts about retrieaving?

Do we realy do something good, or we are just being used to do a dirty job in the name of something that we do not understand?

It might sound silly, but allow me to explain it.

My first doubts started with this experience:

I was in a dream, aware of the fact that i am dreaming. I had all informations that was necessary. There was a noble lady about 40-50 years old that was refusing to go with helpers unless she gave some very valuable documents to a certain young man from her family. I was in a city, it seems to be XVII century. I changed my apperance to this young man and i was pretending to be him. In this place was only me, this lady and heleprs who were pretending to be a ladys servants. I played my role very well, i got those documents from here some life advices(absolutly ussles in todays world) i was even as a part of my role craying there for a moment. When lady was ready to go servants(helpers) bring there carriage she get in, then one of the helpers noded at me that its all done and the carriage just started to fly and disapeared.

The thing that happends there is that i was lying and ussing someones feelings, maybe sometimes there is no other choice but i dont realy like it and i had to do it not just once.

After this one i decided that i dont want to have anything to do with retrieving, ever again:

Once again i was in a dream and again i had all the info. There was a little girl about 5-7 years old and some old man. They were traped in a XIV century castle. Their life story was that the girl was a daughter of the owners of the castle, but both of her parents were death somehow. The man was a person in charge of the castle, set by her parents before they died. The man wanted the castle for him self so he traped poor girl in a small dark cell in the dungeons of the castle. The girl died there and later when a man died they were traped in 'their' castle again.
I went in the castle having a fancy dress, the hat with a feather was most amazing for me, i was pretending to be a messanger from a king. I was pretending that i have a scroll with very important message from the king to this old man. The message was saying that it is an order from the king that castle now belongs to him. After he belived that he is new owner of this place he agreed to free the little girl. When he set her free helpers finished everything.
There was also other reason why he was keeping the girl in prison, he raped her and possibly becouse of that she died.
After some weaks i meet them again in a dream and helpers told me that in next live this man will be a father of this girl...

I dont get it, i dont understand it. I use to belive in karma and in some justice. I dont understand why victims are traped after death with their opressors and the next life... This whole thing is sick to me.

I never wanted to have anything to do with it, but i had a little choice:

I was alone in my house and there was some noise in one room. When i checked whole place there was no one there. Some houers later i was hearing as if some child was playing somwhere near.

When i went to sleep and start a lucid dream. I had an ident of the child, but i was not able to go to her. It was as if she was in the same place, but at the same time i was not able to enter her world. I asked my higher self 'show me it all' The movie started, i was inside that movie feeling everything and knowing everything. The little girl maybe 4 years old was playing in her room with dools. Someone enter the room, she made no reaction, she was still playing, without looking she knew that it was her father. The father come clouse to her and stabed her with a knife, she was still living when he catch her. He grab her, his left hand was grabed on her hairs, right one on her leg. She daied when her father was taking her living-death body outside the house, when she was daying her blood from his father left hand was spliting on here eyes and face. In this moment i pass of froma lucid dream to a normal dream.
In the morning i was in focus 10 state i called helper and asked what the hell was that and what happend. He said that all is all right now and that i should not worry about it, becouse it was all a part of the plan. The answear made me feel terible and piss me off.

I woke up in the morning, i was feeling terible, i was feeling guilty as if i was a prt of this whole tragedy. There was a soul who hired a killer to kill a victim and there was i who brought the deth girl back to this wicked soul.

I was in my total self thorough my dreams, but i have more questions than answears.
When i have such informations, knowing that such things are planed in our lives i dont know what to think about it.
Are we just toys and some sick beings can do whatever they desire to us?
Maybe it is like Castaneda is saying, there is an eagle and we are his food, so our total self dont care at all about us and just colect such experiences?
From the other side if i start to think that i am(we are) my soul, my total self then i would have to admit that i am a terrible sick and wicked being; or maybe should i belive that in whole universe there is nothing to experince but just such things? it makes no sense.

Hearing a voice of my total self in my life shall i listen to adwices of something that is so cruel?
Can i trust it, knowing that it might lead me to some tragedy?

Its years right now since those experiences, i have inner war inside me since then all the time.

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betson

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #1 - Jul 4^th, 2009 at 6:24pm

Dear NoName,

My condolences to you for having to experience those deaths that you are shown. There is alot of anguish in those situations.

You have noticed that they happened in history a long time ago. Also it is obvious that you are now helping the Helpers. Some Guiding Intelligence considers you strong enough now to take on the role you keep getting, because it has to be more than a coincidence to keep getting the same part.
So--
If these were acts in a play or chapters in a novel, the hero (that's you now) would have some torment. But eventually the torment would have to be resolved. You'll probably get several ideas here from other retrievers about how to do that.

I don't know what other parts you may have played in these, but one way to resolve it, if you haven't tried this already, might be to calmly firmly tell The Director /Whatever you want to call It, that you regret the suffering of these other characters and that you are glad you now have helped them move on. Maybe in your anguish over these you have never clearly stated such a thought.

Whether we 'vote' that these were real or not is not important. In my view of it, your anguish over these is very real and that is first what needs to be taken care of.

Betson

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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vagabound

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #2 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 8:51am

Hello NoName,

You mentioned that you didn't have a choice but had to do it. So you didn't, like most people here, go and offer your help, but they came to you. Which leads me to believe that this was supposed to be your experience. I'm sure you'll know the reason for this when you go back. Not much of a help, I know Undecided

By the way, "it's alright" means things are moving on according to plan, not that everybody's feeling good right now.
I think a here-there dictionary would come in handy sometimes.

take care,
Vagabound

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moonsandjunes

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #3 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 9:41am

I believe it is possible for you to ask, even demand, a healing experience to compensate for these experiences. I think you can ask, even demand, that you know/realize the educational value of being taken directly into such disturbing scenes. And, it is perfectly valid for you to refuse to allow them in your experiences. I don't know what area you have been working in, but it definitely sounds like it would drain a person's enthusiasm if repeated without understanding the reason for the sequence.

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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #4 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 1:58pm

Quote:

Hello NoName,

You mentioned that you didn't have a choice but had to do it. So you didn't, like most people here, go and offer your help, but they came to you. Which leads me to believe that this was supposed to be your experience. I'm sure you'll know the reason for this when you go back. Not much of a help, I know Undecided

By the way, "it's alright" means things are moving on according to plan, not that everybody's feeling good right now.
I think a here-there dictionary would come in handy sometimes.

take care,
Vagabound

As far as i know the lady and the girl from the castle are from my total self.

The girl that was killed by her father was from present time, at last her house looks like todays houses. I dont know why and how she came to my house. Most likely helpers job.

By the choice i meant that i could refuse to do anything with her and live in my house with sad, craying nonphisical child, so i had no choice.

The reason why i had to see everything is becouse i was not able to went to her world. Helpers explained me later, that in some situations i need to be able to feel what traped person feel to enter their world.

The part that makes me so angry is that it was a part of the plan. What kind of plan is that?
Its as if something evil and powerfull was toying with our lives.

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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #5 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 2:17pm

Quote:

I believe it is possible for you to ask, even demand, a healing experience to compensate for these experiences. I think you can ask, even demand, that you know/realize the educational value of being taken directly into such disturbing scenes. And, it is perfectly valid for you to refuse to allow them in your experiences. I don't know what area you have been working in, but it definitely sounds like it would drain a person's enthusiasm if repeated without understanding the reason for the sequence.

Hmm 'healing experience' i am afraid to ask for something like that, the cure might be more painfull than the illnes Wink

I stoped to do anything, but it does not change the fact that there are still some dificult retrievals waiting for me. Most of them are suiciders.

@Betson

'The director' i will try to find him later, right now most likely i would turn our meeting into a violence Wink

I am a man so i dont realy like to deal with my feelings and emotions, but You might be right, thats where i should start. I was never thinking about it that way.

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betson

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #6 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 4:18pm

Hello NoName,

You make me curious! How do you know so much about this and know to talk to your Helpers? How do you know you have some upcoming suicides to deal with?

This is also intriguing when you say "I am a man so i dont realy like to deal with my feelings". And yet the retrievals you are involved with all have females in the main roles. Hmm-mm.
Maybe you were the female in these earlier lives and you got tired of having feelings that got hurt so badly? If that were so, would you have different feelings towards all this?

I made up the term Director to try to spare you from misconceptions about God. I wouldn't advise fighting Whatever you want to call It, even the part that is a part of yourself. Cheesy

That doesn't seem too productive Wink

If my earlier idea about putting your feelings clearly into words to the Powers that be doesn't help you, could you let me know?

Moonsandjunes suggested some good ideas, I thought. You might try all the ideas you get since you came here to get ideas. Wink

Betson

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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vagabound

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #7 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:11pm

Hello NoName,

So if I got you right now, you're saying they're feeding us to a story.
(Like little red riding hood had to be eaten up so the tale could be told...except we're only doing it in our heads without hurting anyone - I do hope we didn't create that poor thing by thinking about her and telling her story)

The only reason I could think of is that violence really is out there, it wasn't made when earth was created, but it's always been there, so we have to learn to deal with it.
It's got to be independent from our imagination, otherwise we would be creating it here.

So you're saying you (or another part of you) were the girl in the second dream. But not in the third one? In case it was a different girl, do you know, what happened in their next life? It was after all the bodies that had done this, not necessarily the spirits.

Quote:

From the other side if i start to think that i am(we are) my soul, my total self then i would have to admit that i am a terrible sick and wicked being.

Well, even though we can make choices, we're always being bullied around by our bodies. Some brains are making weird connections and there's nothing we can do about it. If we could easily fight this, I think we wouldn't have come to earth because there'd be nothing here to learn.

And no, there's not only weird and sick stuff going on, but you probably saved the fun part for your very last life.

take care,
Vagabound

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spooky2 Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 2368	Re: Question to advanced Retrievals Reply #8 - Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:32pm I've had some glimpses on other lives of mine (or, of my higher self) and yes, violence, cruelty is a big part of them, and just like your example, it are stories which continue in the next life. I don't like that, too, I hope it stops when I've resolved my issues. Spooky
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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #9 - Jul 6^th, 2009 at 4:05am

betson wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 4:18pm:

Hello NoName,

You make me curious! How do you know so much about this and know to talk to your Helpers? How do you know you have some upcoming suicides to deal with?

It use to be that i went thorough a lot of training in a dreams and later i got some tasks to deal.
Long time ago i had a lot of nightmares made by my helpers. Some of them was about fear control. I was facing again and again in my dreams things that were most scary to me.
Later i had this:
The story was that in XIX century there was a very greedy man he owned a mine(probably gold mine) and he was using his workers, becouse of his greedy he risked their lives and in one accident many of them died there. Later no one wanted to work for him so he went there to dig him self, mine colapsed and he died there.

The helpers left when i was at the enterance to the mine. I seriously dident want to go there. Place was terrible, there was dark, there was a black dirty water to the level of my knees. Place was filed with terrible fear. I made some energetical protection suit around my body and went down there. Deeper in one room of this mine i found some living shadow. It was the owner of this mine, he was like a shadow of a werewolf or something like that, more of a beast than a man, probably being in such place changed him so much. I was deadly afraid, but becouse of the training i dident run away i gathered enough informations before i left this place. He was to afraid of me, i was not able to help him, he is waiting there.

Before i abandoned it all, my last trainings was to gather a lot of informations about suiciders, i was traveling thorough their worlds with helpers and learning as much as possible. I had no chance to use this knowledge yet, so i am preety sure that there have to be some purpose in it.

betson wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 4:18pm:

This is also intriguing when you say "I am a man so i dont realy like to deal with my feelings". And yet the retrievals you are involved with all have females in the main roles. Hmm-mm.
Maybe you were the female in these earlier lives and you got tired of having feelings that got hurt so badly? If that were so, would you have different feelings towards all this?

As far as i know, last time i was a young femmale and i commited suicide, before i was killed as a young woman, before i was solider and i died in world war 2, and so on and so on, suiced, killed, suicide, killed Grin

So when i am thinking about a plan, hmm there is something wrong with it Wink

betson wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 4:18pm:

I made up the term Director to try to spare you from misconceptions about God. I wouldn't advise fighting Whatever you want to call It, even the part that is a part of yourself. Cheesy

That doesn't seem too productive Wink

I am not sure if something like God exist, but as far as i understand it our total self or higher self controls our life. Long time ago i was beliving in God, i was praying to it, later i found out that i have higher self and i was talking about my problems with it, only to find out later that most of my trobles are directed by it

betson wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 4:18pm:

If my earlier idea about putting your feelings clearly into words to the Powers that be doesn't help you, could you let me know?

I am thinking how to do it right now. I will write about it if anything will happen.

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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #10 - Jul 6^th, 2009 at 4:23am

Quote:

Hello NoName,

So if I got you right now, you're saying they're feeding us to a story.
(Like little red riding hood had to be eaten up so the tale could be told...except we're only doing it in our heads without hurting anyone - I do hope we didn't create that poor thing by thinking about her and telling her story)

The only reason I could think of is that violence really is out there, it wasn't made when earth was created, but it's always been there, so we have to learn to deal with it.
It's got to be independent from our imagination, otherwise we would be creating it here.

So you're saying you (or another part of you) were the girl in the second dream. But not in the third one? In case it was a different girl, do you know, what happened in their next life? It was after all the bodies that had done this, not necessarily the spirits.

Quote:

From the other side if i start to think that i am(we are) my soul, my total self then i would have to admit that i am a terrible sick and wicked being.

Well, even though we can make choices, we're always being bullied around by our bodies. Some brains are making weird connections and there's nothing we can do about it. If we could easily fight this, I think we wouldn't have come to earth because there'd be nothing here to learn.

And no, there's not only weird and sick stuff going on, but you probably saved the fun part for your very last life.

take care,
Vagabound

Iam far from thinking than what i am dreaming about is just imagination. I have a lot of strange memories from something that seems to be previous lives. For exaple i know the feeling, the feeling of wearing a shirt from about XVII century. Those materials was difrent there and i had no chance to know how it feels to have such shirt on my body, but yet i remebre it.

I have to also say that the more experience i have in my dreams the less i understand

There are only more and more questions and doubts.

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vagabound

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #11 - Jul 6^th, 2009 at 4:47am

Hello NoName,

I didn't say it was "just" imagination. What I'm saying is they're feeding us to their plan. There's the story of this earth, already mostly written. For some damn reason we didn't just wanna watch it but experience it, that's why we're here.
Now you can read the rest of my last post, too.

Past life memories and prebirth memories do answer questions, but they give you a whole new set of problems, too. Still it's cool, isn't it?

greetings,
Vagabound

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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #12 - Jul 6^th, 2009 at 4:48am

spooky2 wrote on Jul 5^th, 2009 at 5:32pm:

I've had some glimpses on other lives of mine (or, of my higher self) and yes, violence, cruelty is a big part of them, and just like your example, it are stories which continue in the next life. I don't like that, too, I hope it stops when I've resolved my issues.

Spooky

We dont like it, but there is not much we can do about it, we just need to go thorough it again and again. Scary isnt it ? Wink

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tgecks

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #13 - Jul 6^th, 2009 at 8:29am

I approached all of this with extreme skepticism and doubt. I wanted proof. I had read Monroe's books and Bruce's books and I wanted the same experience even though I was very doubtful. It was sort of like my "rational" left brain was the skeptic and my spiritual self kept tugging on me.

At Lifelines at Monroe Institute we drew a scrap of paper out of a hat with a first name on it. Nothing more. I was able to describe that woman, and a great deal about her, how she died, what she liked to do, and several small things like a locket and a pet's name that were exactly correct. Intimate details, and I was pretty amazed. The entire group of 9 people had similar "hits." I have also attended one of Bruce's weekend workshops (though we had no hits there).

Then on coming home people began to ask me to check on friends and relatives and such as I talked about my own doubts and how I wasw doubting my doubts. I had a lot of practice for a time (much of which is posted here in the Retrieval Forum, from Jerry Falwell to the China Earthquakes). With people I was getting exact details like names of children and pets and sisters and nicknames, dates, secrets that no one else knew but the person who had asked for the retrieval.... After some time my left brain was silent. I have no doubt. None whatsoever.

Now-- am I making it all up? Certainly. So are you. All of it, even the computer you are reading this on, and the body you are thinking about this with. Life IS but a dream, and you are in the dream but not of it. Sound familiar? It should, for this is what we came here to learn (IMHO, as they say).

Thomas

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NoName

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Re: Question to advanced Retrievals
Reply #14 - Jul 7^th, 2009 at 2:36am

Quote:

Hello NoName,

I didn't say it was "just" imagination. What I'm saying is they're feeding us to their plan. There's the story of this earth, already mostly written. For some darn reason we didn't just wanna watch it but experience it, that's why we're here.
Now you can read the rest of my last post, too.

Past life memories and prebirth memories do answer questions, but they give you a whole new set of problems, too. Still it's cool, isn't it?

greetings,
Vagabound

Sorry english is not my native language so its easy for me to misunderstood something

About that girl i dont have any informations, helpers didnt want to tell me anything, maybe becouse i was aleready flustrated back then.

Well it is cool, somehow, maybe Wink

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