R said:
Below are some of the reasons I don't believe A Course in Miracles is a good source to rely on.
and I accept your humble opinion and offer my own.
R:
In the spirit of being able to believe as we like, please feel free to disagree with the points I made.
deal.
R:
1. The course says that this World wasn't created by God, because everything God creates is perfect.
This means that God is saying we believe we have to have wars and acts of aggression in this world due to various belief systems we carry which say we are not one, but many, in a sense of being separated from God. Being, or believing we are separate from God is an illusion, but seeing as we have a body, the body itself seems divorced from God. In our true homes, we will not have a body, unless we create form around ourselves. This is where you are having a hard time, to consider, you are not your body. it is a vehicle of your consciousness. don't feel bad. everybody has a problem seeing that the body is pretty much useless after you're dead. and I might add, religion is useless, unless you're in a religious belief system territory; religion is just another belief system as well.
R:
This can lead people to believe that the World is separate from God.
my opinion is that this world was created by us; joined as one vast cloud of beings, all as one. We were the spirit that moved upon the water..we created the world. At home in the heavens, we were on a scouting and probing mission. and here we are, still scouting, still probing the world. Home, utimately, is a place we cannot imagine, because we have deliberately forgotten, in order to be in a body with very little awareness of our beginnings. that's what we do here is explore our consciousness, and religion is one way of exploring those concepts. ACIM is not a religion, so much as it is explaining how insane we really are. Tell me that this world is not insane, and I will have to disagree with you.
R.
It also leads to the assumption that something other than God exists, because it contends that something other than God created this World.
actually, ACIM says the opposite of what you just said. It says the ego thinks it's real, when the body, which belongs to the ego, is unreal, unlike God, as God has no body and God is Love, and so God has no separate ego. the ego is defined as a thought system which chooses to be special, set apart, it worships only it's own tenements and feels separate and unloved by others, it desires power over love. the Course is saying choose either fear thoughts or choose love thoughts, but you cannot ultimately serve both love and fear at the same time.
R:
2. Related to number one, when you look at the big picture, despite the problems that can be found within this World, the World isn't imperfect. It is just that we have to go through some growing pains.
The course helped me with those growing pains to ask me what I was believing about myself, and to ask whether what I was believing was true. It helps you to examine your own nature, then you can see we are basically making up our world to be what it is. It forces the issue towards taking self responsibility for what you percieve out there. It undoes the error of the separation belief of the ego. think about the ego, how it must always have more, better, is never satisfied and there is no end to this way of thinking. the ego is usually trying to prove there is no good will come with the rising sun, only bad. With taking responsibility for you feel, for what causes trouble in our lives, each one ceases to blame outer circumstance and other people. This frees the mind to become a positive influence while we yet remain in the body.
R
Unfortunately, it seems like we're going through more than we need to go through. This doesn't mean that God created something imperfect. It just means that as a part of his plan he provided us with free will.
this part u got right. yet many would dispute we have free will, because we are in bodies, and the contrast of not being in a body is great on the spirit side of things. However, we can choose between a fear thought and a love thought and that is practicing what we wish to believe while creating that, and to do this consistently is difficult, but doable.
R
3. The course speaks of how nothing you see is real; therefore, you don't have to be concerned about the troubles in the World.
this is the way you interpret it. it is not my own interpretation. you need to see your mind as what it perceives firstly, and then the action of your mind to interpret follows.
The Course teaches true versus false perception. It teaches you love is real, although your ego does not see it this way, that love is real.
R:
It is true that what we go through isn't permanent and doesn't represent the ultimate end, but while people and other forms of life live in this World their life is real, therefore, they do indeed suffer.
This is another interpretation from your side. The Course is aware people suffer and they can change their minds about that suffering, with a study of their internal mind system, and how we can attach emotionally to our own belief systems. this attachment is the mark of a closed in mind, as well a closed up heart. Exploration of all thoughts and belief systems, all emotions, is a good place to start to alleviate suffering.
R: Also, the story of this World doesn't come to an end until we bring it to an end in a hopefully positive way.
yes hopefully, positive. thats my hope too. and the Course does not talk about the end of the world. It mentions that we wait for God to take the final step for us. that's all. and we continue to daily choose over love or fear. The Course makes one a happy camper here. life becomes enjoyable and learning continues, but in a smoother more efficient manner than before. also people notice there's something different about you, and they want to be around you. it's because you don't have so many negative fear thoughts anymore, it's the undoing of the ego thought system.
R:
4. The course places too much of an emphasis on the ego. To an extent where a person might end up creating an ego like aspect of mind that is beyond what they already have.
Thats a concern of yours personally. I understand you to mention this before. I think you understandably fear the ego getting out of control. It won't do that, because of the love you feel, keeps it humble. love is a very humbling feeling when it comes from spirit. You somehow understand that God is not that far away, when you remember that you are one with God, but thought you were lost.
R:
We do exist as individual Souls, and even when we become aware of the oneness again our individuality doesn't go away.
if it's important to be an individual, you can be what you want with your free will. But if you want to merge with God and rest for an eternity, and never become individualized in ELS, that is also a choice granted after all lessons are learned. yet I think you are thinking beyond the Course here. It's message is simple, there are many questions if will not try to answer, as we haven't even got the basics down yet. that everything is a belief system here. Forgiveness, the lesson of learning that, is to pave the way for a grace to enter the soul, that makes the way smoother until God takes the final step. Part of the ego's job is to forever and ever ask questions, but never to be satisfied with any answer. We have all sorts of spiritual pathways, we utilize them in our respective growth. but they will change and that is normal.
R
The bodies we make use of include a self-defense instinct. If we give this instinct more credit than it deserves by creating an ego like aspect of mind, we give our self-defense instinct too much power.
u must remember we can only speak for ourselves. you are speaking what you feel is a truth, that u r expressing once more, a fear thought. you are afraid your self defensive mechanism will get out of control. as you are aware you have this fear, you will certainly not allow your self defen[color=#0000ff]
se mechanism get out of control.[/color]
R:
If we place too much emphasis on trying to see that we aren't here, we lose track of the goal of developing ourselves as much as possible.
this is another personal interpretation. Seeing what's real and what's unreal is a phase to go through. nothing bad happens. all u do is see that it is you who places meaning on everything in your life, including the objects which surround us, appearing as if everything is "out there." What the course says is your internal world is within you. not out there. then u can get the idea nobody is out to get you. you can see it's not a dog eat dog world. it never was. you were believing something false.
R
It is very possible that when our bodies pass away and we leave this World, the self-defense instinct we make use of will be left behind with our bodies.
you are perceiving your first chakra, the self defense mechanism, as you call it, to be something separate from your thoughts. like it's something you wish you could just throw away someday. yes you will leave it and it won't be important, but it's not separate from your belief systems. you have to figure out why you dislike the activity in this first chakra. its a basic energy. It can be surmounted, so that you never have to feel manipulated by that energy there. People change all the time. It means working more consistently with the heart chakra.
R:
Therefore, we don't have to overcome our egos in the way ACIM suggests. It will be more of a matter of looking at the psychological issues and beliefs that prevent us from moving forward towards the light.
again, it's your way of putting words together, to say overcome the ego. The Course is saying ask the HS for the undoing of the ego, but it says nothing of fighting to overcome the ego. It is asking you have faith that you can see the truth of yourself as love. you're right, it is all psychology and self discovery.
R:
5. ACIM states things such as we are afraid of God, we have guilt because we separated from him, and that we "hate" God. There is actually a statement within the course that says we hate God.
heres where u got that idea: The course does say some radical things granted. but if you sit and think about it, I have seen some pretty vicious people in the world, and in a sense, if they don't believe they have anyone to answer for, they will continue to enact pain and suffering on others, feeling separated from love. In this sense, they are attacking "the thought of God." another definition for the nonreligiously inclined is the word God came from the word Good. There is a part in each one of us who might be capable of murderous thoughts. I know I was in another life, and in this one, I can still have unjustified anger but I can check it now before it gets out of hand. Others don't. they just let their feelings make them react to circumstances where it appears they are not getting what they want. It's all about true knowledge versus overreacting to one's own selfish agendas, and not being able to tell the difference.
R:
Regarding guilt, why should we feel guilty about taking part in a growth process that is a part of the divine plan?
We feel, from the ego standpoint, because of our respective sufferings, and all of us do have our measure of suffering, whether it's a disease on the body, or watching someone die hard and feeling helpless about helping them, we get to feeling guilt over the knowledge we do not have, and the basis for this guilt is we feel we will be punished by God. So we punish ourselves first, in some cases. u have to remember, we have various degrees of insanity on this planet, due to selfish self interests. In the growing oneness concept, which ACIM is monistic, we begin to cooperate within the service ideals, where my interests would not be different from yours and so we would harmony coming about then.
R:
How are we supposed to learn what existence is about and develop uniqueness and capabilities, if we don't go through some sort of growth process?
more interpreting for you and me. developing uniqueness is not a be all, end all, within this thought system. More so than that concept is to be yourself, where you are expressing this love that you are more and more consistently, in order to see it materialize as your truth, and it has to do with the Oneness is more important than standing out heads above the others, as to be worshiping self. Others become more important than the self. In ACIM then, it's not about growth, it's about undoing what the ego believes, that perhaps it has believed since childhood, for instance, I believed I was not lovable person. Then what I believed came to pass to show me those perceptions. It is only after examining my beliefs, with the HS, that I saw I had been told an untruth and now I had the power to change my mind because ACIM said I could "choose again."
R:
6. The course relies on affirmations too much. Spiritual growth doesn't take place by making a bunch of affirmations.
this is your resistance speaking, to the Course. if you think about it, everyone has an affirmation, even your parents must have thrown an affirmation at you. Affirmations will only point to the truth, like a road sign, it is not the actual destination. Meditation on the affirmation is the only thing that yields up the entire rote.
R:
It comes by letting go of limitations.
here u have made your own affirmation and offer it to us. we have a choice that it's that easy. just let go of limitations and life is smooth. I would say you have a great deal of will power. Not everybody is like you. we all are different. It is not so easy to let go of a limiting belief system without a spiritual tool or two, such as many pathways will provide, not just ACIM.
I'm amazed you spend so much time here pooing on the Course. you are really expressing a great fear here. If your head was in a good place, I should think you'd be off doing something more pleasant? I can only say I'm trying to shed some light on the subject, due to I know you suffer with this. but in the end your need is more than my gift of delivery, and I will need to back off.
______
R: If one takes a path that involves making a bunch of affirmations, one will end up encasing one's self in a belief system.
I want you to reread this post, as EVERYTHING is a belief system. We are in one or another so long as we are in ELS, which is a belief system planet.
R:
This is true regardless of how positive the ingredients of a belief system seem to be.
you can also follow a negative belief system right to the manifestation of the negative outcome. it's your free will again to believe in what you want. but think it over carefully, as you may get what you think you want, and then you can change your mind, deciding it's not what you want after all. So meditate and ask yourself what you want, but the ego going here frequently is aimless without a consistent belief in love, or god.
R: The fact of this can be seen when one becomes defensive when one's belief system is questioned.
well dearie, if you're talking about me, I'm not defensive so much as I feel like you're in deep trouble and not letting me offer any consolation. if you're still angry that I kicked you out of my inbox one time, you had not right to say the things you did to me. it was highly disrespectful to ask someone to pray to god as they are on the wrong path. its none of your business what path I'm on.you stepped over the boundary line. you have 0 empathy for others.
RL True knowledge doesn't need to be defended. True knowledge doesn't need to express it self through the words of a course.
your intellect is lightweight. If you had true knowledge we would not be in this conversation. and as well, I see I am being judged for defending myself. obviously, you are greatly competitive in your nature. you see yourself as powerful and that none should question u when u speak. this is the ego, and yours is out of control, but you can change if you want. I'm willing to bet nobody stands up to you much. hello, I'm calling your bluff because nobody else will.
R:
7. The course has many words yet there are things it doesn't talk about one would think a course from Christ would talk about.
I think the subject of our being love essence is quite enough to talk about.
R:
One way in which people try to brainwash people, is by having a person read basically the same thing over and over again.
your fears of being brainwashed stem from having been a part of a cult. since this wasn't my experience, I don't have much to say about it, except I'm said it happened to you. However, if I can have been molested and maltreated in my life and still get over it, so that it is no longer even something to think about, I don't see why you can't get over having been brainwashed in your cult.
R:
If you get them to read it enough, chances are they will take on a belief system they will be afraid to question.
again, is this your experience? With the course, we are asked to consider our fears, and choose once again, it does not say you won't have questions. it says the ego never ceases to question as ego wishes to have and maintain control over what it wants, and it does not care usually what another wants.
R:
When I read the course for a while I could tell that it has a brainwashing effect. In the past I've posted an article where course teacher Hugh Prather spoke about how most of the course members he met years after they started the course were very narrow minded.
____
I do not see it that way. I consider myself one pointed, not narrow minded. and Course students are just people like the rest of the world. they use the course to help them think, they are not brainwashed, as it's not like the course is binding you to read it, it's a choice to read it and attempt to figure it out without jumping to false conclusions. however the HS helped me read it. it takes a long time to understand it. other pathways will suffice to teach love and forgiveness. you must find your own pathway, as life is about choosing for yourself.
R:
8. If the course doesn't actually come from Christ, then to the extent it disagrees with the truth Christ represents, it will mislead a person.
to my perspective it does not disagree with the truth that Christ represents. it does not mislead, if it is asking you to choose between love and fear thoughts, and to learn what forgiveness is about, and to have faith that God will take the final step for you, if you trust that it what will happen, and always listen to the small still voice inside you; it is the HS, it's in all of us, it is love. When Christ left, he left the voice for god here, the HS is that voice, and you can hear it, it speak of love and he did show us how death is nothing. He is still here, and he loves you, and is trying to reach you so that your faith can grow and your suffering stop. blessings, have a good one!
Home
Pages: 1 
