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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of? (Read 36541 times)
Alan McDougall
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Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
May 14th, 2008 at 2:11pm
 
Numbers Chapter 31?

I have great difficulty in rationalizing this chapter with a concept of a good loving God as depictured by the lord Jesus Christ. Someone help me please! The bible states that God is the same, yesterday, tomorrow and forever. This does not seem to be the case if one analyses and compares the awful chapter 31 of the book on Numbers, in relation to the loving, forgiving, Father God, that the Lord Jesus presented in the four gospels. Answer this and I will be able to press on. Note I do not have much time left. I am so tired and weary now!

1)      Verse: 2 the Lord said to Moses take vengeance on the Midianites. In direct contrast, Jesus said, forgive those who hate you and despitefully use you. It is easy to love those that love you, but I say love those that hate you. Vengeance is mine said the lord I will recompense. However, here God appears to go against his own word and commands Moses to take vengeance.

2)      Verses: 3- 6 Make war and kill said the lord. This is a direct contradiction to Gods own commandment. Thou shalt not kill. Jesus said if a man strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer him the other and not to violence.

3)      Verses: 6-13 here the armies of Israel go out and destroy, spoil, burn and steal and plunder on Gods command. In addition, they slaughter all the adult males however; this is not sufficient bloodletting slaughter to please Moses or God as we read from verse 14. In contrast, Jesus said he that lives by the sword would die by the sword. The soldiers apparently somewhat kinder and merciful than Moses spared the woman and children much to Mosses disappointment and anger

4)      Verse: 14 Moses was wroth (angry) with the officers. Why? Because they had not slaughtered THE WHOLE LOT, WOMAN, CHILDREN, like they had done to the adult males. So what is sweet kind merciful Moses proposal? Verse: 15, He says now murder all the “LITTLE BOYS”. In ABSOLUTE contrast Jesus said blessed are the little children for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

For goodness sake is this the same merciful loving God depicted by Jesus. No this horrific story does not end yet. Moses goes on saying.” KILL ALL THE WOMAN” except those that have not had sex with a man. How on earth in those remote primitive days were the soldiers to know which woman was a virgin and which were not. There was definitely no gynecologist way back in 300O B.C. WERE THERE?  So to me they must on Moses command raped all the woman first and then murdered those who were not virgins. Why was it necessary to rape them all? Because a woman’s age does not necessarily indicate whether a woman is a virgin or not.

5)      Now if any learned rational bible scholar can tell me that this is the same father God that is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever, I am all eyes and ears waiting for a logical explanation. You know if one takes out the title God and Moses and replaces them with Hitler and Rudolf Hess, no one would question that it was the work of the evil Hitler regime. Would they?
     Alan McDougall 13/7/2007

any comments?
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #1 - May 14th, 2008 at 9:41pm
 
Greetings,

Possibilities, but not from a biblical scholar:

Moses has the starring role in Numbers 31, and he also wrote it!   Even such a God-chosen good person may be be a bit self-serving sometimes.

Death is no big deal to God. He knows it's only temporary. He could speak of it in brutal terms because peoples' lives were more brutal then.

God knew what He needed to have happen in order that His plan unfold. He used whatever means were necessary for those times. He uses whatever means are currently  necessary too; we just don't have a Moses to record the instructions.

Huh
Bets






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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #2 - May 15th, 2008 at 1:12am
 
Bets,

Nice reply  have often wondered how much of what was supposed to have happened was JUST OLD MOSES DOING HIS OWN THING

love

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #3 - May 15th, 2008 at 2:25pm
 
hmm Alan..I'm not a bible scholar either. I just memorized in my soul things JC said which rang true for me.  the people in the bible were the current scribes of the times..hopefully mankind is not as brutal as they once were.
I guess if you look at it another way, Earth is a warring planet. I assume if Earth is a warring planet, then there must be other planets where war is not a consideration. just unthinkable.

so if u say u haven't much time left Alan and you are weary and tired, I can say the same about myself. I would like to make a proposal: can I meet you someday in the hereafter on a peaceful planet?

I would love to have tea and crumpets with my brother.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #4 - May 15th, 2008 at 2:29pm
 
This kind of contrast, Alan, is one which disturbs me the most, and I am not certain that it can be explained so simply as we would like. Is it possible that "God" has a dark side too? And, if so, might we be able to forgive this God? Might even God require our forgiveness, along with our love, for everything that is beyond our ability to understand?

I would like to consider this thought for a while.

love, b
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #5 - May 15th, 2008 at 3:05pm
 
Quote:
This kind of contrast, Alan, is one which disturbs me the most, and I am not certain that it can be explained so simply as we would like. Is it possible that "God" has a dark side too? And, if so, might we be able to forgive this God? Might even God require our forgiveness, along with our love, for everything that is beyond our ability to understand?

I would like to consider this thought for a while.

love, b


Hi Blink I could share my beliefs and faith I have. It's an honest question. God does not have a dark side. Being spirit we take a physical body, and with this physical walk through matter, it is necessary to take and build an ego. We join in with the collective area and we are told to learn all about the world and how to behave ourselves according to the collective social rules.

It is the ego which is dark. It is generally wanting to add unto itself and grow more powerful.
the ego is not who we really are. In our essence we are spirit, we are love.

we come to the world to essentially view the contrast and discover our true selves once more through struggle, pain and suffering is sometimes our journey. Other lives, a life of ease may not yield up much in the way of a fruit of the soul to return to our wider disc, or level of afterlife station, which is the before life station he same. our true home is not here. we are on a journey, in a movie. Death is not real, that's why I say movie.

There comes a time when the ego begins to die off, as it is seen for what it is, a self image that can never be satisfied, though it may have fame and fortune, the real satisfaction is knowing who you really are, and in this knowing, one with god, with all that is, pain and suffering, struggle and strife cease as you understand the ego is the one to make this suffering, and also the ego will tell you suffering is necessary.
It is not necessary and all suffering ceases when you know that you are love, which is the love of the father also, God, the force, Atman, The Buddhic nature, we have so many names for higher self, it's all the same.

It's in our hands to choose love because we wanted to be here, to experience a physical honing process, and then coming back to this particular dimension is a choice for the soul, or to go onto plan other vistas "to be" existing within.
Free will means being able to choose our reality. It's easier to do it together than singly because the ego can be a vicious guard of it's spoils. Yet PUL can sweep the ego away into the dust and nothingness which it really is.
Here, I view life as we all wear these masks at a costume party. In the afterlife we have no mask on the higher levels, and getting home, we often say, wow, I thought that life was Real!

It's not real here. everybody is telling a big lie believing they are not this love essence, or they are screaming give me some love from others.
sometimes u can give them what they need, other times you have to walk away and pray for them. then what's really amazing, is prayer works!
two voices in the head, one speaks first; the ego, the softer voice is our connection to God, creative thought. Most often, but it's changing, we can't tell the difference between the ego and the spirit speaking. yet we have assistance nowdays in greater measure, because we have to be able to tell which is the voice of love, and which is the voice of the self serving ego.

Lucifer, the fallen angel, I believe is a symbol for man's ego having come to Earth. Now, the good news is I have a good report I trust that Lucifer has returned home! lol!
which means the ego has no more power in and of itself to block our visions of cummuning with those beings who are now ascended and which I call spirit.

hope that helps...our words though, are twice removed from our certain reality to all knowledge.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #6 - May 15th, 2008 at 4:27pm
 
Well Alan,

I am starting to wonder if I am on the wrong site.  I have been into TMI for more years than I care to mention.  I have been listening to Bob Monroe's Gateway cd's again, reading Bruce Moen's books again.  I have ordered Moen's new book and cd's and am still into wanting more direct knowledge and wanting to help in retrievals just because I want to. 
I have been under the impression that the belief system territories were for people stuck in belief systems whether they think they are positive beliefs or negative beliefs.
I have been hearing the christian bible quoted and treated as if it is the true word of god.  I am hearing many talking about JC as if he is supposed to be my lord.  Then I hear about Christ consciousness or what I have come to see as a new-age christianity.
Much of the world does not believe in this and they have their own beliefs which are for me just that, beliefs.
I do believe in LOVE and so do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and you did ask the question about the christian bible so I will say that there are many who do not accept this book as authentic.
So, if this is a christian site, can someone please let me know and I will move along.  Thank you and much, much love to all,  SHSS
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #7 - May 15th, 2008 at 5:44pm
 
SHSS, this is not a "Christian" site but, rather, an "exploration" site, but I understand your hesitation. All ideas, belief systems and experiences are open here for discussion, and we have varying degrees of success in discussing these ideas peacefully with each other, because they quite naturally bring up emotions for people from time to time.

The beliefs that influence me change from day to day, and I am becoming more open to that, as a way of being. It's not always easy to be open, for me.

Basically, personal experiences are accepted here, from any belief system. We all come from somewhere, so I guess we come together with whatever is in our basket, and try to feed ourselves and each other. Yes, that is a Christian image: Jesus sharing the fish and the bread with the multitudes, stretching out a little to feed a crowd.

I wonder if the fish or the bread looked different to each person in the crowd?

I like to think about things like that....


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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #8 - May 15th, 2008 at 6:24pm
 
oh I hope u stay SHSS, I was hoping for more TMI visitors for years!

btw, this is just a room where Alan started a subject..it's under the title of Religions and their beliefs; so it's own room..not to represent what the entire board is about.

of course these are all beliefs, no more, no less. Alan has labeled himself as Christian mystic because he's comfortable with that.
my own labels is that I wear them all like a costume because I believe we are all one in spirit. I do believe there are many ascended masters, not just JC.

when you see the word PUL, it stands for pure, unconditional love, and in my own mind I liken it to perfect love, which I liken to the fellowship of JC.
also perfect love can be likened to Christ Love.

Religion in the future will change into something more universally understood as do unto others as you would like to be done to you...that sort of philosophy might go far!

so I continue to welcome you here whatever you decide and would like to hear about any experiences you had at TMI or otherwise...

ps: Alan is going thru a hard time right now; aren't we all?
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #9 - May 15th, 2008 at 7:12pm
 
Thanks Blink and LaffingRain.  I did not mean to imply that I have been to the Monroe Institute.  I know someone who has and so I have all the cd's and books I can buy and have been exploring on my own for many years.  Sorry.  PUL

I am going to shut up about religion, just wanted to answer.

PUL, got a new word,
SHSS  Kiss
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #10 - May 15th, 2008 at 11:46pm
 
Hello guys

Thanks for the responses.

Alysia I take you up of your offer for tea and crumpets in the hereafter. Can I invite Bets, Blink and SHSSS?

SHSS If you go back and read my posts you will see I am absolutely not stuck in any belief system and indeed despise anything exclusive such as the many cults that poison society today.

Blink

Yes, you are not the only one disturbed by this apparent contrast and it makes me wonder how much of the bible is truly relevant to us today. God seems from a scriptural viewpoint (not my own) to have a dark side as per Isaiah 45 indicates

Isa 45:7      I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all

Alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #11 - May 16th, 2008 at 6:01am
 
Hi Alan,

Yes, if there is anything I have learned since the internet came out is how easy it is to misunderstand and to be misunderstood in an email or post.
I would love to take you up on the tea and crumpets.  Thank you.   Maybe we can have a good old party soon and celebrate having graduated this game.
I personally believe that ALL is ALL and as you mentioned-in your way-Yahweh is both the light and the darkness.
You know when you get into some focuses where you cannot compare things.  Like, how can you tell if something is big if there is no small.  How can you tell if something is hot etc.  without something to compare it to.  How can you tell what is good or healthy if there is no contrast?  This is why I cannot understand how some say especially now-a-days that we can get rid of all black for example.  I think it would be great to rest in loving white for some no-time, but then after trillions of non-years, it might get boring.
And then we might go out looking for some trouble to get into again.

PUL
SHSS  Kiss
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #12 - May 16th, 2008 at 8:26am
 
SHSS,

You are wise maybe wiser than you know. (The highlighted part of my previous post was from the bible not me)

Quote:
How can you tell if something is hot etc.  without something to compare it to.  How can you tell what is good or healthy if there is no contrast?  This is why I cannot understand how some say especially now-a-days that we can get rid of all black for example.  I think it would be great to rest in loving white for some no-time, but then after trillions of non-years, it might get boring.
And then we might go out looking for some trouble to get into again.


This is exactly what I believe, if we existed forever in a state of everlasting bliss and peace we would simply not know it and after a billions and zillions of googolplex years, "Man/Girl"!!!!. we would be bored with this endless, ceaseless unchangining existence.

regards

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #13 - May 16th, 2008 at 2:19pm
 
well ha! you two, I'm going to go be a mermaid somewhere after this life...I wouldn't want to get bored after all... Cheesy
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #14 - May 16th, 2008 at 4:02pm
 
Of course Alan, you are just talking of a book. No more, no less. Its just a book. The Bible is so full of hate and power. Smote, kill, destroy, rape,.....(I wonder if those who wrote it has little man syndrome?)I remember the first time i read Treasure Island. It did change me somewhat inside. Of course, it was just a book. It was a far better read than the Bible to me. Both were wrote to invoke emotion. Both very successful. I still prefer treasure Island.
Joe
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #15 - May 16th, 2008 at 5:52pm
 
CoolYes, it would be great to be a mermaid except for the sharks. “But dont laugh there are really mermaids out there, on other worlds that sometimes swim in our oceans” And I am not cookoooooo........ daerone!!

Haweye Quoted

Quote:
Of course Alan, you are just talking of a book. No more, no less. Its just a book. The Bible is so full of hate and power. Smote, kill, destroy, rape,.....(I wonder if those who wrote it has little man syndrome?)I remember the first time i read Treasure Island. It did change me somewhat inside. Of course, it was just a book. It was a far better read than the Bible to me. Both were wrote to invoke emotion. Both very successful. I still prefer treasure Island.


Hawkeye old fella

Yes I know, I know I know, but there are some truths in it such as God is love God is light, so perhaps e should not generalize. I take you point it is a book and one hell of a book to understand thus me starting this thread. Perhaps you should reread what I originally posted, if you have sorry.

Now on your point of view (I hope you enjoy the following critque of the bible)
Fables in the bible

Fables in the Bible

The stories in the "Old Testament" are totally unbelievable, I am amazed that I was taught for so many years by people who should have known better that these were actual historical events. It is so obvious now that these are myths and fables, with no more historical accuracy than the stories found in sci-fi. I can't believe grown up people still believe in these myths, and worse still teach them to impressionable young minds. Let's take a look at a few of the more ludicrous stories.

Creation and the Fall

Ok, so nobody apart from a few fanatics seriously believes the world was created in 6 days as described in Genesis. But even if you maintain that the 6 days represent 6 ages, there are still ridiculous paradoxes that stand out. For example:

•      Genesis Plants are made on the third day, without the sun to drive the process of photosynthesis.

•      All creatures are apparently created as herbivores (Genesis ch1 v30). So what happened to the dinosaurs?

There are countless others - the Genesis account doesn't even remotely match what science tells us about the origins of the earth, however much you try to twist it to fit the facts.
Noah's Ark

This is basically a reworking of the much older "Epic of Gilgamesh". The idea that there was a worldwide flood is completely unsupported by any kind of evidence. After building the ark, God gave Noah 7 days warning of the flood. There are somewhere between 8 million and 10 million species inhabiting the earth (not including the 30 million different types of insect). Since there was a male and a female of each species on the ark, Noah had just one week to collect polar bears from the North Pole, lions from Africa, spiders from South America and tigers from India and the Far East.

Even assuming he could travel around the world at the speed of light, there would have to be an average of 30 animals per second going through the ark's single door. How did the cone beetle survive the year at sea, bearing in mind it can only survive on a particular type of tree only found in California?

Another ridiculous idea is that God created the rainbow as a sign that he would never again wipe out humanity in a global catastrophe. Are we expected to believe that light behaved differently a few thousand years ago when passing through raindrops? Only the incredibly naive can surely believe this!?

The "worldwide flood" somehow seems to have missed out the Chinese and other civilisations that were around at the same time, since they have no record of it.
Finally, the whole idea was to rid the wicked people from the world. Did it work?
Tower of Babel

The Tower of Babel myth is ludicrous - the idea that the entire world spoke a single language until God became angry at their attempt to build a skyscraper and cursed them all with different languages. Where is the evidence for a worldwide language? All ancient cultures evolved their own languages separately, there was most likely some kind of cross-pollenation as people moved around, but there is more evidence for the existence of Bigfoot than a single common language.
Joshua and the Sun

Joshua 10:12-14: It was on the day when the Lord gave up the Amorites into the hands of the children of Israel that Joshua said to the Lord, before the eyes of Israel, Sun, be at rest over Gibeon; and you, O moon, in the valley of Aijalon. And the sun was at rest and the moon kept its place till the nation had given punishment to their attackers. (Is it not recorded in the book of Jashar?) So the sun kept its place in the middle of the heavens, and was waiting, and did not go down, for the space of a day. And there was no day like that, before it or after it, when the Lord gave ear to the voice of a man; for the Lord was fighting for Israel.

Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous? Not only does this imply that the Sun orbits the Earth, but even if it happened as described and the earth stopped moving to give the appearance of the Sun standing still, the gravitational effects would be devastating. Funny that there is no record of such an incredible celestial event in the records of all the other civilisations that were present at the same time. And what on earth is the "Book of Jashar"? Finally, I was once taught in Sunday School that a NASA supercomputer had found Joshua's "missing day" whilst compiling a history of time - this is an urban myth and has been thoroughly debunked, nobody has ever owned up to running such a program.

Yahweh defeated by "chariots of iron"
Judges 1:19 Yahweh was with Judah; and drove out the inhabitants of the hill country; for he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
So Almighty God, who creates universes at the blink of an eye, was defeated by a tribe because they had chariots of iron? Isn't it insulting to ascribe this claptrap to the Source of everything?

The genealogy of Jesus
Take a look at the two separate genealogies of Jesus as described in the gospels of Matthew and Luke. Well, actually you aren't supposed to, as 1 Timothy 1:4 says that you must "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies". There are only 4 names that actually match.

     
Conclusion
Incredibly, I was taught as a child that all of these stories were true and happened as described in the Bible. I cannot believe that the people who taught me such outrageous fables didn't have the common sense to see that this is all absolute nonsense. In my opinion people who claim that the Bible is enerrant and everything happened as stated should have their heads examined.

Thomas Paine writing in "The Age of Reason" makes the perfectly good point that the Bible is full of utterly irrelevant stories that add absolutely nothing of value: When Samson ran off with the gate-posts of Gaza, if he ever did so, (and whether he did or not is nothing to us,) or when he visited his Delilah, or caught his foxes, or did anything else, what has revelation to do with these things? If they were facts, he could tell them himself; or his secretary, if he kept one, could write them, if they were worth either telling or writing; and if they were fictions, revelation could not make them true; and whether true or not, we are neither the better nor the wiser for knowing them. When we contemplate the immensity of that Being, who directs and governs the incomprehensible WHOLE, of which the utmost ken of human sight can discover but a part, we ought to feel shame at calling such paltry stories the word of God.

This really tickles my sense of humor " oh!! man or woman" I find it  very very fanny, dont you guys?

alan  
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #16 - May 17th, 2008 at 10:31am
 
So rather than trying to rectify contradictory pictures presented by the Bible, why not just argue that it is not really the word of God? A great farce has been perpetrated on us all these centuries.

The only place you can find the real answer is inside yourself wherever and however you communicate with the God of Alan.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #17 - May 17th, 2008 at 10:44am
 
I think the Bible is a roadmap to understanding some aspects of the human psyche. It is a story of how we present the truth to ourselves. And sometimes we lie to ourselves.

Too bad our former resident Biblical scholar isn't currently present. He usually has some good insights to add to this sort of discussion. Taking the Bible out of its historical context seems to me to be intelectually faulty.

One part of the human psyche seems to interact with symbolic information much better than with literal information. I think this is difficult for those of us living in such a scientific age, where literal use of information has produced such an advantage in creating things to have in our lives (like the internet and all the stuff that goes with that). I don't think the stories in the Bible are necessarily to be taken literally. There is a mix of factual and symbolic.

Of course, there is the possibility that what was reported that Moses did was what was actually done. Historically, I think it may have been that when a people were conquered, the adults may have been killed off and the boys killed off and only the girls kept (as breeders of course). The issue is that the Bible proposes that Moses acted from God's word. Well it wouldn't be the first time a ruler acted brutally and then claimed he acted on the authority of a higher power. The question is, why did Moses do that? Now we really do need Don.

I think the part that is hard for you is acknowledging that the Bible may not be what it is claimed to be.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #18 - May 17th, 2008 at 1:54pm
 
It is not my God Lucy and I never stated it was

I Quote:
don't think the stories in the Bible are necessarily to be taken literally. There is a mix of factual and symbolic.


God of Alan gosh ! I have my own personal demigod now,.

If we abandon literal meaning and try to do the impossible of decoding the symbolic, there are just about infinity of possibilities and interpretations that are impossible to unravel and decide which is the correct
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #19 - May 17th, 2008 at 2:51pm
 
well said Lucy. Alan it is not "impossible" to interpret symbology of the bible. If you choose to read this material, and it's your choice, you have to decipher it according to your ability to do that.

We all have an ego which interprets differently. the bible was written by men, not saints. they did the best they could based on their prevailing awareness.

We have need of a new bible. We're not living in those dark times.
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #20 - May 17th, 2008 at 9:52pm
 
Alysia and Lucy,

I submit to your collective wisdom. Just to conclude it is true if one uses the Bible there are as many possible interpretations as there are people on the earth, so any "Word of God" from any era would suffer the same fate, unless it was a direct facsimile from God to each person that could read and uniquelly tailored for each individual. All is subjective nothing is absolute

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #21 - May 18th, 2008 at 2:51pm
 
Alan said: "I submit to your collective wisdom."

hehehehehehehe Grin

I like the way you talk Alan. I think we both came from another century and feel like we are fish out of water once in awhile.

Somebody usually hits me when I talk like you do. Listen friend, there is one absolute, they say taxes and death are absolutes, but it's a lie. There is one absolute that change is a living law.
and one more: according to each person's discretion and heart..for myself, I will never forsake you, I will always love you and never let you down.

  Smiley
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #22 - May 18th, 2008 at 3:16pm
 
Alysia,

I like your absolute, so to contadict my own infinite wisdom, I think the other absolute is our absolute complete uniqueness. You know Alysia you are great, there never was in all eternity one just like you and there never will be one just like you in all eternal infinity. There might be someone very very similar, but absolutely identical "ABSOLUTELY NOT"

Getting a little less absolute, you are very important indeed, if you were to vanish, all existence and even god himself would vanish from your perspective

I am now wallowing in the deep mud of the philosophical metaphysics am I not dear?

love

Alan   
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #23 - May 18th, 2008 at 3:31pm
 
lol. Allen  Cheesy  you're embarrassing me but it's nice.  we are all a bit like unique snowflakes of god, some of us just melt quicker I guess.

I was wallowing around the other day with words and have a new word picture for you: Greased pig ascension.    Smiley do u think it would make a good book title?
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #24 - May 18th, 2008 at 5:13pm
 
Alysia

Quote:
I was wallowing around the other day with words and have a new word picture for you: Greased pig ascension.     do u think it would make a good book title


Well I dont know the subject of said book ,, But to put it mildy not really.

alan
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #25 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:29am
 
Recently I had come across some interesting reading material.
For me, I took out one or two interesting things-

#1) The original holy scriptures had been manipulated already as early (but possibly at earlier date) as 325 AD by the Council.

My question is still this:
Since we find dino fossils, human bones etc. Some which reach as far back as 350 Million years back - why are we so set on "the bible" which is what at bit over 2000 years old?

#2) and if the original was changed - where the friggin heck is the original, so that someone can rewrite /correct the one we have today?  Sad

Just a thought,
Nanner
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #26 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:35pm
 
I'm not interested in bibles, but I am interested in new age material about the bible.
In Disappearance of the Universe, Thomas shows up in a future body (appearing as flesh and then disappearing in thin air) and reports his gospels were tampered with and changed and J didn't say some of the things....some of his papers were found only 300 years ago. Some were destroyed.

anyhoo, good to see my nanner back here. I was thinking about you today or yesterday, and now look, here u are, this is not a coincidence!

now u are here I can take a vacation?  Smiley just kidding. I love this place. I'm like a Jewish grandmother I guess. EAT! EAT!  Grin
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #27 - Jun 22nd, 2008 at 6:49am
 
Hey Alysia sweetness,
Take a vacation - I KNOW YOU ARE JOKING ME. Vacation pink slip denied!  Wink
With so much work that needs to be done, who can hardly think of vacation, huh?

Do you have any links to the info about the findings of the scriptures?

Hugs to ya and everyone else too,
Nanner
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #28 - Jun 23rd, 2008 at 2:03pm
 
sure Nanner  http://www.garyrenard.com/

The Gospel of Thomas which was some papers discovered just 300 years ago, I think googling that information would yield something.

Gary Renard is author of Disappearance of the Universe.  the title is to mean disappearance of duality thinking consciousness. not like obliteration!
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #29 - Feb 8th, 2009 at 8:51am
 
I have just run across this forum and the subject in question. I have always had a problem with the two aspects of God---OT vs NT. Then I was lead to read a series of books written by Zechariah Sitchin who explains the difference to my satisfaction. Sitchin does not come right out and say that Yahweh was one of the "gods" of Mesopatamia but it follows when reading of the others and their jealousies and wars.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #30 - Mar 8th, 2009 at 10:25am
 
Hello Alan,
I just came across your question as I am new to this forum. I hope I'm not too late with what I believe is an answer.
I too, have been bothered by the very question you have posted. I was, for many years a student of and later a teacher of the Bible. It never occurred to me to question any of this until I finally threw off the trappings of religion and donned the cloak of spirituality. How this came about is a long story and won't be told here. Suffice it to say I have found a credible answer to the question in the writings of Zecharia Sitchin who describes the many "gods" of Sumeria and Babylon and their connections to the Old Testament writings. Although Sitchin does not come right out and state that Yahweh was one of these "gods" he strongly infers that he was. This theory can be found in Sitchin's 7th book "Divine Encounters." Also, William Brimely wrote of this possibility in his book "The Gods of Eden".
Wishing you success in your quest for Truth,
Hal  
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #31 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 8:28pm
 
Question is, what came first, the concept of Yahweh as a concrete being, or YHWH as a mystical philosophic concept?
Was the mystical vision of enlightenment the source of the biblical texts, which later were misinterpreted as displaying a concrete "God", or was the concrete God the former and older concept, and the mystical visions and philosophies imposed upon them?

As a mystic I tend to focus on the mystical vision, and regard the more worldly interpretations as delusional, but maybe I'm too idealistic and maybe Zecharia Sitchin is right, or both views are right, and the bible can be used for proving or disproving anything in any way.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #32 - Sep 16th, 2011 at 10:50am
 
Hi Oliver,

You needn't doubt your own insights.  Smiley They are truth for you   Wink at that time.  Just as any Truth can be explained through its many layers -- physical, mystical, whatever. 

Those layers are all valid and make the spiritual adventure very exciting!

Betson
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #33 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 9:21pm
 
Hi Betson,

yesterday I asked my spirit guide about this question and got some answers:
The Father is inside. I had a vision that was very abstract. Do you know the Buddhist view of 'God'? They claim that there is no personal God, and the vision I had yesterday in answer to my question was confirming this. It is a level of reality which Tibetan Buddists call 'Rigpa', maybe in Christian terminology it is the 'Holy Spirit', it is inside, and there is no outside, or if there is an 'outside', then we don't have contact with it.
The answer about 'Yahweh' in the Old Testament was that it was (or is, I don't know if he still exists) a personal being from a different reality system ('extraterrestrial'), a comparably very big one, and he was responsible for a large part of humanity during that epoch, his task was to enforce the mental and cultural development of the humans under his influence. He was doing it for a purpose, the humans were to be used for something later on.
Would be similar to Zecharia Sitchin's hypothesis.

Btw, as I was in a receptive mood yesterday, I also tried some 'remote viewing' around, wanted to see whether the President of the USA really was guarded by psychics, so I wandered around a bit, was granted permission to pass (but only gruffly), and roamed around more, wanted to know about who has influence in the US, because I felt as if the President alone could not do what he would like to, and then I checked out the politicians, but found that they too are not that influential really, they seemed more like idealists. Then looked around more and found in highly influential positions in economy some characters that felt like Reptiles!... hmmm.... Shocked

Love Smiley
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #34 - Sep 17th, 2011 at 9:47pm
 
Oh boy!

Several people here have information on the Reptilians, but I haven't explored that myself. For some reason the search capacity of this site (magnifying glass in upper right of thread) can't find the references, regardless of how I spell 'reptillian."  Smiley  If you'll post your last paragraph as a new thread in the main Afterlife Forum, I expect you'll hear from them, more than under this thread's title.

I believe that you, your Guide, and Sitchin are right on!  Thank you for putting into words what I have sensed but never got very clear in my mind.

Betson
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #35 - Nov 21st, 2011 at 5:26pm
 
Back to the original question...
I'm currently more and more getting involved with the New Apostolic Church in Cape Town, my wife and her family and friends are all involved in church work intensively, most of them are ministers in the church, and I have seen and spoken some of the bishops, all of which were highly spiritual individuals, very open-minded and truthful and lightful, so were my impressions of them.
Now I started reading the bible, and first thing I notice is that the God which Jesus calls His Father certainly seems not to be the God of the Old Testament, and even further, the God in the Old Testament does not even seem to be one but many different ones which are confused to be only one by way of using only one word for them: 'God' (although it is 'Elohim' - a plural term - in hebrew)!
Take for instance the first chapters of Genesis: Genesis 1 speaks of the seven days of creation, and in that context God seems to be the unpersonal creator principle. In the last verse of chapter 2 and then in chapter 3, 'God' seems to be located in physical world, precisely in Mesopotamia, and seems to be a very personal being, interacting with Adam and Eve in a very personal and physical way.
Other instance, Ezekiels so-called 'vision of God': Needless to say, because it is just too clear, that he saw a spaceship which dispatched four robots that rolled around and later were collected by the spaceship before taking off again.
Reading more and more, I thought that maybe the people who compiled the bible, had some good reasons for putting so much of the jewish myths in it, although I would expect that the bible should put more emphasis on Jesus' words. I find it surprising that the Old Testament is four times as large as the New Testament.
So why do these people put these old stories of interactions between the old Israelites and their 'God' - which I think is rather not one monotheistic God but a term for the superior alien race that they had contact with. Btw, it is a well-known fact that the hebrew term for God is 'Elohim' which is a plural word.
This 'God' of the Old Testament clearly shows treats that are not divine at all, and certainly not in accord with Jesus' teachings of love and forgiveness. So in my view the 'God' of the Old Testament can hardly be the Father of Jesus, or maybe Jesus refers to His Father to be a person with changing moods and attitudes? I would find that hard to believe, although I am open for anything, even for the most unlikely possibilities, until they can be shown to be impossible or really too unlikely because of certain reasons.

So now my guess is that the people who compiled the bible wanted to show to later generations that there were alien superior races governing earth and manipulating man, maybe genetically creating man, there and then in Mesopotamia, and that these aliens showed certain behaviours in their interaction with the humans there, with the so-called prophets. And Jesus knew the truth about that, too, but he was like 'Neo' in the movie 'Matrix', a super-hero who was predicted to come to save the enslaved humanity from their slavery of the alien super-race - but it seems now that the aliens are still in control on earth, just like in the movie 'Matrix' - I don't see the whole picture yet, only some impressions and loose threads here and there, some patterns also, some puzzle pieces coming together.
Whoever is out there who also knows some interesting things about these things, please share! Smiley
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #36 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 1:59am
 
  Most want the whole enchilada handed to them quickly, and at a low cost.  Doesn't seem to work that way for us humans though. Drats, foiled again.

  My perception is that various E.T. groups have been involved with humanity during various periods.  Some are very spiritually mature and act as a guidance level.   Some are just curious and observing, some in a sense need our help while they can help us some, and some are more separative and arrogant in nature and are not a helpful force in a direct sense. 

  It seems at least a few of them have dabbled with our human genetics for various reasons.  One of the major ones is to help improve the circuitry of our physical vehicles.  Another is using our genetic material to improve theirs.  Different groups though, with different purposes.

  We were not created and enslaved by the 'Reptilians' so called.  Some of us do allow ourselves to be influenced to varying degrees, but such in the nature of the like attracts and begets like game/system of growth.  Much of our troubles though, are of our own internal cause and issues/imbalances.  But yes, there is a certain amount of influence that does go on. 

  However, the Consciousness who are the Co-Creator Gods and fully at one with Source Consciousness and PUL, would not allow full interference by these or any other groups unless we were ready to face and overcome same.  There is an interesting part in the book Cosmic Journeys where Courtney Brown was communicating with "Jesus" and the J dude says a bit authoritatively--something like that no E.T.-Human interaction that is not of the J dudes plan, will happen. 

  Re:  E.T. influence on genetics, well i have some personal experience and insight into this.  There is another self within my Disk or Greater self as i prefer, whose human genetics were altered by a spiritually mature E.T. group for a definite purpose.  This self was a sort of spiritual teacher and healer type, who was very psychically aware--much more so than even the average at that time and their average was a little more aware than currently. 

  "They" helped boost my other selfs physical circuitry, allowing for greater attunement to and demonstration of psychic and spiritual awareness within this dense physical. 

  Sometimes i wonder if my current body has been tinkered with, since my mom had a childhood illness and was told by doctors that she would not be able to have a child.  She had miscarriage after miscarriage, but it was around the time that she had a very vivid and powerful dream of being on board a craft with nonhumans that seemed familiar and loving and they were working on her body.  Around that time, she became successfully pregnant with a rather 'strange' child--her first born-me. 
   Perhaps related, an otherwise fairly accurate psychic told me that i was a Star child or seed, or something like that.  Perhaps one of the meanings of that term or concept is that i have a little more E.T. dna in me than the average?

  According to other sensitives (for example, both of Bruce's friends that he recommends on this site) and some inner guidance i've received, at some point in this life, it's probable that my psychic awareness and abilities will be fully and completely open, as to being fully telepathic, powerful healing, etc.

   I don't think this would have been as probable a development, without some tinkering on part of the E.T. group to my genetics.   I'm appreciative for their help. Needless to say i disagree with the seeming views that all E.T. influence is negative and limiting in nature.  There are many, many groups out there and they range from the most expanded in consciousness, to as limited as humans or more so. 

Btw,  I think this genetic alteration process is going on with some others as well, and has in the past, as well as currently.  Is it all positive in nature, probably not?  According to some outer sources i listen to some, there is also Reptilian-Human genetic programs and mixing going on, and it's doubtful that it's for our benefit. 

  It's interesting that my intuition tells me that many of those individuals whose human bodies have been altered and had more E.T. genetics inserted into same, well their consciousnesses actually directly came from another system--some are even first time humans.  In a sense, i'm a bit different with this since i've been involved with the Earth for long while and am not directly coming from another system (though, in a sense, perhaps some influence since i've had experiences in other systems). 

   
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #37 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 6:53pm
 
found some specific arguments for many different God's in Old Testament here:
http://www.usbible.com/Creation/AlienGods.htm
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_evilgod.html

googled for: "yahweh alien" - interesting results...


@Justin:
do you have full conscious memories?
I don't, but information comes to me nonetheless somehow, by intuitions and visions. For example, I feel a strong relationship to Mars, feel like having lived there for a long time, a few hundred thousand years ago. I still love that planet and feel sentimental about it. I don't know my alien origins in detail, only feel them, for example being a member of a telepathic race where telepathy is the normal thing, and now here on earth I find a lot of concepts difficult to cope with. Also the concept of constraints of perception and movement according to space and time feels like being a wild animal in a cage in a zoo.
Thank you for sharing! Smiley
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Oliver
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #38 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 7:33pm
 
now after browsing reading more material, following hypothesis:

The 'God' of Old Testament is a vicious being, very manipulative and influential, and seemingly very evil and damaging, a nightmare of humankind;

Jesus taught how to escape the negative manipulations of the Old Testament 'God': through PUL - Pure Unconditional Love.

So Jesus is antagonist to the Old Testament's 'God'!

The bible is the history of the negative manipulations of humankind (OT), and the solution (NT), and whoever compiled the bible in this form, must have known a whole lot about this!
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Justin aka Vasya
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #39 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 1:46am
 
Hi Oliver,

  I do not have full memories--i'm more like you in that i receive info more through intuition and similar means.  It's usually on a "need to know" basis, which i was joking about in relation to my comments on enchiladas.  Plus, i've been led by guidance to outer sources which i find are more accurate than not. 

  That's quite interesting about your feelings towards Mars.   You might enjoy and be inspired by Courtney Brown's work in his two books.  You can read and/or download them for free on one of his sites.  They talk a lot about the ancient history of Mars and "Martians"--especially in the 1st book.   The first book is called Cosmic Voyages

  Thank you for sharing as well.
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Re: Is Yahweh also the Father God Jesus spoke of?
Reply #40 - Dec 30th, 2011 at 3:28am
 
Perhaps this will help someone (maybe a little).

Christianity as we know it including the three largest groups (Catholics, Prots, and the Orthodox) is descended from the group that won the argument (war) over which Christians would dominate, with more than a little help from emperors Constantine and Theodosius I. This is the group scholars now refer to as 'proto-orthodox,' the same group that decided the canon of the Bible and made their theology mandatory throughout the Empire, with its backing, and the State was not nice about it.

Even later 'reformers' where not shy about consigning 'heretics' to the flames (after turning them over to the State, of course). Any Gnostic churches in your neighborhood? No? Now you know why. So when people speak of Christianity (whatever that is) please keep in mind the definition of that term is very much an open question.

As for Jehovah vs Jesus...I think the simplest answer is probably the correct one. They are not the same God (whatever that means), unless we can say, simply, that let's-not-stone-the-adulterer and love-your-enemies-even-as-they-murder-you Jesus would order the slaughter of innocents. Grab a box of tissue, read the book of Deuteronomy, think about the weapons of the day, then ask that 1990's cliche: What Would Jesus Do? Make sure it's a new box.

It's the proto-orthodox with their unexplainable trinitarian theology (a "mystery") who would have us believe they are the same God. In the absence of creative theological abstraction, it's obvious they aren't.

If you look at it from, say, a level of consciousness perspective, clearly the Israelites and their god (an anthropomorphic projection) are more that a bit lower on that scale than Jesus, their descendent.

Disclaimer: This is all predicated on accepting the Bible as a valid historical document, which I don't. This is why we have Guidance.

Now the conclusion: the Christian belief system, as we know it, is self-contradictory. By their fruits you shall know them.
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