Matt, I asked my mother about her life... Let me explain. Mom picked a hell of a life to live. Born in the thirties, four month premature due to my Grandmother attempting to abort her. She was born with CP. PPhysicaly crippled from birth. Fed through a eye dropper for her first year. Hated by her own mother because she lived and kept her from going out to the gin houses. For the next few years and up untill she was about ten she was in and out of hospitals getting her legs broken then healed, then onlt to be broken again in some twisted experiment in healing in the thirties and forties. Then they wanted to make sure she woulden't have kids so they wanted to fix her like a dog with bad breeding. Thank goodness they didn't because where the heck would I be then. Next they cut off her big toes to attempt to help her walk. All the time keeping her druged up and in a state where she could be molested by one of the interns at the hospital. I went to see her as she is in long term care now as she getting on. She was extremely close to death and had been moved to the room by the nurses station to die. Most of the staff had allready said their good byes to her. I went in and by chance she came to and came back to reality and to this day is somewhat on the rebound. When I was there, I asked her about her life. I said to her.. what a hell of a life she had had. She told me in no uncertain terms that she had had a great life. That she would not have changed anything. She felt satisfied and filled with love. What a lesson about love and understanding she taught me that day. Truely the biggest lesson of my life. I have her to thank for it. When I hear of people, jesting or not about killing of others with disabilities, mental or physical, it bothers me. Like I said, its my button. I know no real harm was ment or intended. In the case of this shooter, I feel sorry for him and his family. Of course I also feel for all the people he killed and theirs also. But really, no more or no less. There all victims of a sort. In my personal belief, he know now what he did was wrong. He will get help on the other side. He will learn from this event. Whats needed is love and forgiveness along with a good dose of understanding. Just like my Mom finally helped me understand.
Joe  

Quote:


Yeah Blink - right on track...Its our right to own...
....own up to the consquences of such a society.

Hugs,
Nanner

As a card carrying member of the National Rifle Association, and the California Rifle and Pistol Association- Both! - I'd like to point to the underlying issue in terms of what a lot of other members are saying. The US Constitution tells us essentially that a well-regulated militia being necessary to the preservation of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. (Misquote, but close) - On the basis of concurrent state legislation of the same days, this makes clear the idea that the people are expected to be able to defend themselves, their homes, and their country, for which purpose they must be able to keep guns and to use them (appropriately).

"Appropriately" is of the nature of the "well-regulated" part. The counter example is that we sent many men to WW I who did not know how to load and fire their weapons. Their survival time was in question. However, the old frontiersmen were well versed in shooting skills, and their arms were always a threat to British tyranny against the Colonies. The number of arms owned by the public were a critical part of Japan's decision not to follow up Pearl Harbor by an invasion of California.

However, the best example is Switzerland, whence came the concept of "equal arms", requiring the able bodied man to own a spear, a sword, armor, or a halberd, or at least a bow. Nowadays it's a 7 mm fully automatic weapon that is kept, together with ammunition, in every household closet. And with which the owner has to qualify every so often. It kept the Nazis away in WW II. Not bad for not firing a shot!

The idea of the "well-regulation" phrase suggests that anybody who requires the perpetual use of psychotropic medication in order to function on a quasi-normal level is not well-regulated. We have a Brady bill to prevent criminals or people in the heat of rage from buying firearms. All other citizens are presently allowed to buy, own, and operate them. It would be a trivial matter to add use of medication for serious mental illness as a disqualifying factor, because those folks are not well-regulated.
California gunners in particular have been wondering about this.

Incidently, in California, if you want a handgun, you also have to possess a Handgun Safety Certificate, which requires study and both written and practical testing oriented to safety factors, every 5 years.

That having been said in the light of a good "fix it solution", it is also useful to recall Jesus words when talking about those who killed or abused children, that these things must happen, but woe to the perpetrators of the acts. That sounds to me like a suggestion that karmic factors are involved. Like anything else, it's never totally cut and dried simple.

On the other hand, there have been times that I would have been happy to give people the option of reincarnation now. In fact, aside from target shooting, isn't that what handguns are for? We offer the bad guys a chance to reform - in the next incarnation.

Go to God. - BANG!

dave

Good question, Hawkeye-
When I was a teen I used to be a hunter, living in the Midwest, and popping off pheasants in the backyard. I got so tired of pheasant that I preferred chicken any old day. However, I was honest about killing. What we have today is more like the hamburger mentality - obviously Big Macs must grow on trees, because we certainly wouldn't want to terminate Old Bossie.

Later on I decided that I liked critters, and stopped eating them. That produced a quandry, as a vegetarian diet is difficult in the US, the beefeaters don't plan for it. No prob, I also eat fish, because often that's the only option - and very interestingly, being a good Buddhist (well, maybe not so good after all, but I pass) I offer to take their pain. So it's Halibut steak tonight, and something bites me back tomorrow.  And it does! - Or perhaps they bite me back just for the "halibut" (Do I go to hell for too many puns?)

When I was 12 and learning how to hold a .22 I encountered the NRA. All they seemed to talk about was safety. I think that this is the bottom line to anything that proposes to be a protective measure. But safety means protection of everyone, not just one or two misguided kids, or a couple unlucky college students who know a nutter whose major claim to fame is that he can express his lack of love.

Nowadays, as an adult, I shoot a lot more. I have some of the world's most powerful handguns and enjoy letting off steam after a tough therapy session by going to the range and blowing away the center of a target. At home, however, we have a herd of about 20 deer who come through the yard in the morning and trim my wife's plants. She fusses, but not too much - and then there are the 40 turkeys that live nearby and often visit us. They're  pretty clever birds. One pecked at the door and stared at me, and when I waved it away it look really annoyed. No like the domestics at all - and by repute they're so tough you need a chain saw to cut them up.  Not interesting any more. There's also this week's paw print from a mountain lion who lay in the flower bed about the same time as we heard some major turkey squabbling.

So actually, I still enjoy wildlife. Even more, in fact.

The big issue with firearms is that in all the major nations inwhich they have been severely restricted or outlawed, violent crime has increased, including murders etc. And somehow the seriously bad guys always seem to have a black market line on things like Uzis. On the other side, the price of ownership is to learn and practice safety - and that stance comes not from violence, but from humility, the tremendous obligation that is attached to anything lethal, including that greatest of all killers, the automobile.

Back to the point of the matter - whether it's in the area of drugs that cause people to see and learn wonderful things - or drive people crazy - depending on their spiritual preparation, or the more infrequent abuse of meditation as an escape  from reality - or the willingness to allow our revered ancestors to return to us - and the attendent risk of picking up a few entities hitch hiking their way through life - or ...  All these cases require proper understanding and preparation. The first step of the Eightfold Path is Right Understanding. It isn't until all the intermediate steps have been handled that we  go after Right Samadhi.

Just because a person is mentally unstable under certain circumstances is no reason to view them as dangerous, or even inferior. The cyclothymias, such as bipolar disorder, have also been the motivators of great depths of insight. The work of Georg Cantor in transfinite cardinals ended in suicide. But it is in  use today, by me among others. We have schizophrenics who are in extreme states of confusion and suffering, but some of the less confused ones have also given us major works - like Vincent Van Gogh, and I'd guess Nietsche (but he might have just been narcissistic).

Personally, I've lived 70 years with fibromyalgia, a syndrome of five major bothersome states incuding catecholamine dysregulation which causes me to become emotionally unstable under prolonged stress. (Causes depression, if you're curious.)  After Basic and Air Traffic Control training in the Air Force I withdrew for fear of becoming upset and killing someone. That's damn costly! - As a tower operator I would have had a great career - but I might have crashed your brother in law's plane. - This is the type of regulation we really need. Know yourself, and set useful limits.

So we have a trade off here. To take a palliative, or to pursue potentially dangerous paths, like deep meditation and kundalini yoga, both of which have a record of wrecking lives when people are unprepared. (I occasionally treat them in my practice.) Who is ready to go where gentle Juditha goes, into a world where we surrender our mind to be used by another spirit that needs to express itself? She's pretty ballsy, in my estimation.

If you look at Bruce's writings you'll notice that he doesn't tell us to immediately go out and rescue stuck spooks. What he says is that this requires preparation, and may not be suitable for everyone at this time. You'll find the same from Swami Sivananda, and all the Tibetan teachers, and doubtless other places as well.

In all honesty, I have no solution. (Boy, that's a change!)  But at least I feel that we're beginning to understand the nature of the problem. Reminds me of Shakespeare, "The fault, dear Cassius, lies not in our stars but in ourselves, that we are underlings." - And there's nobody else to blame for that. - Like it or not, we have to be responsible.

PUL
dave

[quote author=blink link=1203039474/0#12 date=1203096998]This shooter was a "revered" member of the body of that university and a campus leader in the area of criminal justice.  He was a "good" person.

He went off of his medication.

He was mentally ill because he went off his medication.

He had a license to own firearms.

You do the math.

love, blink
*****************
You bring up a good point.
Psychotropic drugs are a recurring theme in these incidents, as
far back as Kip Kinkel in 1998 and Columbine in 1999.
And why should that be a surprise? 21st-century man doesn't
have a CLUE how the brain works, and here we are pumping
millions of people (some as young as 2 years old) full of
"antidepressants", neuro-leptics, lithium, ect.
MODERN BRAIN SCIENCE, IS ABOUT AT THE LEVEL THAT GENERAL
SURGERY WAS IN ANCIENT SUMER OR EGYPT.
We are THOUSANDS OF YEARS away from, really being able to cure
mental illnesses, or being able to truly repair brain malfunctions.
KNOWING that, should we really be messing around with people's brain chemistry???
These compounds should not be used outside of mental
institutions, IMHO. (If we should use them at all. Who
knows what brain damage the NIU shooter suffered as a
result of those "meds" he was on? And when he went off
them - well, if he wasn't crazy before he started taking them,
he sure as heck was after he became dependent on the "meds"
to function and then went off them! That speaks volumes, or
so it would seem...)

B-man

Gee Dave.. I'm not sure if the hand guns are offering that option of reincarnation or is it the death penalty. And your right about those hand guns.....there ony good for killing people. We don't have a lot of them up here in Canada. Far less crime that way. When I go down to the US, I am always a little freeked out about everyone and their grandmother having a gun. People getting killed for less than $5.00. Then of course you also need one of those 50mm anti aircraft rifles and a machine gun just in case some poor deer just happins to come on to your land, or a bird flies over your head. Kill, kill, kill. Is it the American way? In Canada the difficulties and loops you have to go through, including training and licencing with a police check, makes it almost impossible to purchase a hand gun. Not that there not around if you really want one. We manage to have lots of surplus ones smuggled up from down there. We get your extra hand guns and you all think you get our extra terrorists in exchange.
We also have had our run of school killings up here. I don't know anyone who understand what behind these events but some gun control might help. This last guy was on some sort of medication. The way it is being reported it looks like there may be a emotional or mental instabillity issues. It is also reported that others new he was off his drugs. Are they to blame also for the killings? Could they have done something. If your not mentaly stable then you should not be able to go out and buy three guns in a week.
Joe
*****************
I suppose you think that cops should have them though.
And the military.
Never mind that cops blow away lots of innocent people
every year (not to mention the military!)
So, you're really pro-gun after all, eh?

B-man

Life can be interesting and strange.

I also was a member of the NRA but only did target shooting, not hunting. I was a very very good shot and somewhere if they haven't been tossed out  , I have numerous awards, patches and certificates for my achievements. I started at 10 but stopped somewhere in high school.

I am now thinking even though many years before,  the same concentration skills necessary to be a good shot - and it is impossible to be one without being able to concentrate - had been beneficial in my learning meditation later which is also impossible to do without being able to concentrate. Following breath, heartbeat, relaxing, concentrating -- all there.


- u