Hm, I think scientists are smart enough to realize the dangers of the greenhouse effect without the help of aliens. And why the heck don't those aliens land on the marketplace and tell everybody, then everybody would know. But nah, all is happening super top secretly, at area 51 and in underground tunnel systems and such, and the governments are hiding it... I don't know...

Spooky

Its a well know fact that in the age of the dinosaurs earth was a much warmer planet with sea levels much higher that they are today. The problem as I see it it that there will be an enormous amount of flooding in coastal cities and in countries like Pakistan the Netherlands, and other low lying areas. There is going to be a very large cost to moving these peoples and adjusting to the food groups that survive that changes. Plant and animal. The problem as I see it is not the global warming but the polluation that is causing it to happin at this speeded up rate. Don't fall into the trap of what I believe to be the new fear mongering. You can bet theres money to be made and fear to be brought upon us all. We as a species will adjust and survive. Many of the other species we hold so dear to us will not be so lucky. I think we should be far more concerned about global polluting  (cause) than about global warming(effect).
Joe

I would think that our biggist polluter is our use of and the higher demand for fossil fuels. Oil, coal, wood, gas, all being burnt or remanufactured into something we think we need and releasing toxic cra- into the air. Plactics and the sort. I was watching The Amazing Race last night on the tely and they were in Africa. Piles and piles of used garbage bags everwhere. Its the same in Mexico. Its the same thing here only we hide then in landfills. I am as guilty as the next for doing damage to the enviroment. I drive a SUV. Drink out of water bottles. Eat packaged food. I also try to do my best to recycle where possable. Slow down when I drive. Turn the heat down when I can, etc. I know that I am part of the problem and also know all of us are the most of finding the solution. I sure can't blame the Chinese or the Indians, or Mexicans, etc for wanting what they see us as having. Driving big cars and having big houses. Air conditioning, central heating.  Bottem line is there is a price for it all, and as a worldwide community, we are all going to pay that price. I don't mind the world getting warmer. I don't like myself being this part of the cause.
Joe  

it's true one of the biggest polluters is cattle... they burp out a lot of methane.  but i'd rather have alternative energy than stop eating them.   

  Some say that one of the big reasons that Jesus took such a nutty in the Temple market area, was that because the Temple market was primarily in the business of selling animals (like doves, goats, and the like) to be killed or burnt alive as a sacrifice to "God" to pay for human sins. 

  Not only were they trying to turn a place for spiritual worship into a commercial, profit driven business area, but they were also causing much needless, stupid, and very cruel suffering to his friends to do so. 

No wonder why he got angry.   Anyone with half a conscience would have gotten pissed.  What gives any human the right to do this, and yet we constantly sanction it day in and day out.   

the_seeker wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 1:20am:


   (and the gloves come off in the 3rd round, ding ding ding ding)   

  Our bodies evolved to eat meat?   Not really, if you look at our ancestors, if you really examine our body objectively, you will find that our bodies are primarily designed for a fruit, veggie, grain, type diet with the ability or capacity to occasionally subsist off meat.   Take our stomachs for example, as compared to the average carnivore or omnivore (like a bear), we don't produce near the amounts and intensity of hydrochloric acid that these animals produce to break down heavy proteins like meat, grizzle, etc. 

  If humans evolved to eat meat, nature would have made us a little bit more predatory body wise, because the first humans and our ancestors while they had brains to some extent, their technology was pretty sad.    Yet we find the human body to be one of the, if not the weakest in the predatory, carnivore world.   It's even weaker and more fragile than a Chimp, one of our closest living relatives.    Whom by the way, primarily subsist off fruits, veggies, and insects.     But, aren't we meant to be even more compassionate than a Chimp?

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   So why did Jesus get so forceful and probably even angry in the Temple?   Why was Buddha a vegetarian, why was Gandhi, why are most Hindu's vegetarian, why were some of the greatest thinkers of our time also vegetarian (like Einstein and btw, Hitler really wasn't that was propaganda)?  Why were the Essenes?   Many of these individuals have one thing in common, pretty fast vibratory patterns as part of their consciousness. 

  I've read quite a few NDE's and it seems that most people that have experienced these were averagely developed, or in the case of people like Dannion Brinkley or the guy from House of Pain, pretty darn slow vibrating before these experiences.   So when these die, the guides are only working with so much spiritually and ethically speaking.    So they tell them things like, "its important to be kind to others when you go back", etc. ad infinitum.   You got to start with the basics for most people, and then as they live those spiritual principles in relation to other humans, they will be led to the more finer and subtle aspects of compassion and spirituality.   Many spiritual sources say that it's important to respect, be kind, and compassionate to Creation in general, and wouldn't you know but creation includes nature and animals. 

  Edgar Cayce's guides once told a person, "Do not lower the plane of development by eating animal flesh"     Eating meat, actually slows down the vibrations of the body physical, and also has an adverse affect on the etheric, emotional, and mental body energies too.    If you don't believe me, then check out Cosmic Journey's by Rosiland McKnight whom worked with Bob Monroe very closely for a long time, as one of his early explorers.    Her sessions with her guides are a big part of why and how the Gateway Voyage program ever came to exist. 

  There is a chapter in there called, "Control: The Foods We Eat"   Bob and Rosie got a little reprimanded for their terrible diets and how it was interfering with a greater balance of their total energy system.    Two main things were pointed out, over eating and eating too much meat.   But they went into a lot of detail relating to how our diets can affect positive and negative energy flows in our systems.

  I've been a vegetarian for 6 years now, and i feel much, much better than i did when i ate meat.   I feel much lighter, and i have much more energy.   Rosie's guides talk about this, and talk about how meat, particularly beef and pork, are very heavy and slow vibrating in energy, and that they tend to put a strain on the digestive system, which then takes away energy from the rest of the human energy system.    Eliminate the meats, especially the heavier meats, and your energy system doesn't need to do all this overwork. 

  They talk about fear energy and toxins in the meat, and that these are very slow vibrating energies.   Emotional fear is one of the slowest vibratratory patters there are, which is why in much spiritual literature, many sources say that fear is the closest opposite to love that there is, even though its not truly its opposite.   Well, when you slaughter an animal, they tend to know what's going on and tend to be quite afraid, and so their flesh becomes pumped full of toxic adrenaline hormones, and more subtle energy levels of fear permeate the flesh as well.  So when you ingest their flesh, you are assimilating both the physical toxins, and also the more emotional subtle energies of fear as well.     Ever notice how guys who eat a lot of red meat tend to be very aggressive and with quick fuses?    There is a relationship, a cause and effect with this.

  This was proven in a study with prisoners.   They took a group of known to be violent prisoners, totally changed their diet to a vegetarian and after awhile, they noticed a big change in their behaviors and moods.   Basically, they calmed down a bit.   Oh, but filling oneself up with toxins and fear energy has no negative or slow vibrating affect whatsoever.

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  I love when people use the whole Native American argument.  It shows two things, how much we put them unrealistically on a very generalized pedestal, and how quick we are too defend our beliefs and egos with irrational and illogical points. 

  Ok, which tribe is one talking about to begin with, there were some major differences between many of them.   More than a few tribes also warred quite violently on other tribes, and things like burning people alive was not uncommon...oh but yes, they are the ultimate in spiritual examples and leaders!   

  There is much that i respect about many Native tribes and peoples, but they were not an ascended group of people.   They were just more intune with the nature forces than were many Euros, in a more collective sense.   

  Also, to compare our times, our intents, our motivations, our conditions to the ones of which Native Americans were in, is like comparing apples and oranges.   Not only did they not kill for sport as you pointed out, but they had a lot more conscious and active appreciation and gratitude for the animals they were killing, and they didn't waste and pollute so much as we do.  We face really big pollution issues, and not eating meat is one of the best ways to say no to this and to not support it.   Also, we waste so much, we have so little gratitude, and so little active appreciation as compared to the Native Americans.

  So many of us live in lands of plenty, of plenty of food and food choices, unlike in other times or with other peoples, we can more practically and easily become vegetarian.   And yet, many of living in lands of plenty, we stuff ourselves full of toxic crap, we waste tremendously amounts, and so little have active appreciation for every meal like many ancient peoples and cultures did.   Feeling gratitude and appreciation for something, can help raise and clear the vibrations of a food, even meat to some extent.   

  But, what it really comes down too, and how it directly relates to spirituality, is does one have compassion for the emotional and physical suffering of other sentient and emotion beings suffering?    It's about as simple and as "spiritual" a question as one can be asked.   Do you place yourself and your so called needs of filling your body with toxic crap, above than animals emotional fear, stress, and physical pain so that the former can become a reality?

Compassion and love IS spirituality.  And compassion boils down to trying to alleviate others suffering, and when another living thing can feel both acute pain and emotional fear like we can, why would we want to put them through that...  Is the "but i like the taste of their flesh" and our selfishness really more important than their physical and emotional suffering?

  I would say to that people who answer yes to these questions, really don't have a deeper clue about spirituality and what it means to be 'spiritual'.    But they are experts on selfishness, insensitivity, and putting their needs, wants, and desires above others, for sure.  Spirituality and spiritual growth is not about exploring different consciousness states different than physical, its not about psychism, its about positive ideals and trying to live by those ideals, its about living more for others and the collective and not so much just for self.   

  Strong words huh, and not stuff folks want to hear.    I've read a bit about very spiritually advanced cultures living in the far, far past, and future ones and interestingly, these super spiritually developed people and cultures seem to be vegetarian in nature.    If this is true, then why would this be the case if not killing or torturing animals for food had nothing to do with spirituality?

the_seeker wrote on Nov 29^th, 2007 at 2:31am:


  Hi Seeker, i don't remember saying that one has to avoid all killing of all life to grow spiritually.   I remember specifically talking about animals who have a very developed nervous system and emotions not all that dissimilar to our own, and i'm talking about intentional supporting of or directly killing same.    Not the same thing as accidentally running over a squirrel.   Stuff happens in the physical world that sometimes can't be helped. 

  There is a degree of relativity involved here, do you not see that?   Also, for some folks, eating meat wouldn't be as destructive for them, as say some other folks.  Folks who really are immersed in the material and in slow vibratory patterns, have less of the harmful affect of meat and supporting such on a more spiritual and energetic level.   This is because, like Jesus once said, they don't really know better right now.     But, for those who have attuned to greater light, and who are faster vibrating, such choices are and can be much more detrimental and is not necessary at all.    There is a old saying which holds true i've found, those with more awareness, more understanding, have a greater responsibility than those with less awareness and understanding.    

   This site is one based on spiritual issues and subjects, and has fairly fast vibratory energies collectively speaking.  It's one of the most harmonized and fast vibrating sites i've been part of.    And because of this, i feel i can be very blunt and 'in your face' here at times.   Now, i wouldn't go on any old site, say one about knitting, business,  kittens, hunting, or the like and tell people in the same manner what i've told you.   If i even talked about it to begin with, i would put it in a different way, and point out the health and self interest benefits of going more vegetarian.    Hey, if done right and in a balanced manner, its both healthier and cheaper than eating a lot of meat, especially red meat or pork.   What's not to like about that?   

  Again, there is some relativity involved, and some people on this site, know better deep within themselves, and sometimes a firm, no nonsense, and very direct approach is needed.  Sometimes a much more subtle or indirect approach is needed.   It changes according to the moment and to the individuals and the collective energies involved.     I'm more just a messenger than anything, and i go with the flow.

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  I love your enthusiasm Seeker, now if you could just channel it into different avenues.  Again, i would say there is some relativity involved here.    For a caveman or Native American living in super tough, cold, etc. conditions, then sometimes it becomes a practical survival necessity to have to eat meat.    We cannot totally transcend such environmental conditions until we attain full Source attunement like He/She did, or the future or very far past people's that Monroe met and communicated with. 

  So, if you are in a situation wherein its your life and survival vs an animals, then i would say to the average person, "Go for it."   but please give thanks and have gratitude for the gift that you received.   

  Does any of the above though, really apply to most of us and our daily lives?   I'm not concerned with what the cavemen and Native Americans, or others had to do in the past to survive.   I'm concerned with the present conditions, and very few living in developed countries have a basic survival need to eat animal flesh.  Nor did we have such huge pollution issues then either.   Now it's primarily just a mind-body habit for most.   

  There are some whose bodies are really imbalanced, and i would not tell them to completely stop eating meat because it could make things worse, and i've found that one has to affect such changes gradually if one doesn't want to experience very unpleasant body reactions.   It's almost like drug withdrawal symptoms, if one goes cold turkey in not eating meat.   It can be a shock to the body system.

  I've talked to plenty of people who went vegetarian and vegan, with whom this 'shock' and uncomfortable feelings happened to.   They did it way too fast and suddenly.   Most shouldn't do that, especially if they are previously use to eating large quantities of the heavier meats. 

  I was lucky in the above, because i was led by guidance to affect gradual change.   Almost 12 years when 16 ago, i stopped completely eating pork and beef, but i still ate chicken and fish.    After awhile, i ate chicken less and less, and kept mostly to fish.   After awhile of that, i just lost any and all appetite for any flesh, even fish.   

  I didn't do this primarily because of one book, a teacher, a friend, or anything outside of me, it was more purely intuitive than that.     And it worked rather well, and i didn't get the extreme over reactions that i've heard many other describe when going vegetarian or vegan.   Such extreme over body reactions, makes it harder for people to affect this long term beneficial change.   Hence, i recommend gradual change, though i believe that most could cut out completely the heavy meats right way.   

   Really, other than some of the withdrawal issues i've mentioned, what's really to stop more people from being more vegetarian, what's there not to like about better health, faster vibrations, and a more clear conscience?    I have a hard time believing that one's attachment to the taste of same, is ultimately more important and influential than the above benefits.