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The mind is not located in the brain (Read 15860 times)
LaffingRain
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The mind is not located in the brain
Jul 19th, 2007 at 3:47am
 
hi Bets, everybody. towards the end of Voyages into afterlife Bruce is at TMI doing one of their programs and theres others he meets in what I'll call phasing exercises. One of those he participates with, begins to tell him that the brain is a conductor I think he said. I would conclude the same. that the mind of man is not located within the brain tissues, but that we might say mind is the total organism as a field of energy within the self same spirit.

for my personal experience this would seem correct. I have felt much as if I were a radio receiver at times to pick up voices specifically addressing me, and I would then identify who they were by the energy signature.

I would say the right side of brain is receptive, left side logical and weighs the information presented, interprets and makes decisions based on the what the reception side picks up.
I do agree the brain is mechanical though, and is not the mind which continues after death.
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betson
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #1 - Jul 19th, 2007 at 3:22pm
 
Thank you so much,
Dear Alysia!

That is exactly what I needed to think about now.

Love, Bets
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #2 - Jul 19th, 2007 at 9:32pm
 
Yes the brain is something mechanical, or if not mechanic, then call it physiologic. It means it is a thing like other things, observable, describable. It is a thing we can look at. The mind is not of this nature. I always say, you can search as long as you want, you won't find one thought in the brain.

Spooky
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #3 - Jul 20th, 2007 at 5:49pm
 
hi spooky, I used to think my memories were in my brain, as I saw on TV, physics, that every time you learn something new, a little line imprint is made upon the brain tissue.

however, I have now changed my mind about memories being there. Bruce says the memories are stored in the disc, and this makes more sense to me.
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #4 - Jul 20th, 2007 at 6:12pm
 
I believe the scientists when they say that everything we experience changes something in our brain, and that this has to do with remembrance as well. No brain, no physical human existance. The point is, the brain is a physical thing, while the mind is not. This is the fault in the argumentation saying "the mind is in the brain". You just can't see a thought, or find it in the brain, so the alterings and processes in the brain are a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for physical humans' minds.

Spooky
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #5 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 1:06am
 
I have pondered this often myself, and while I do believe that the mind, or consciousness, transcends the brain (and I'd like to gain enough firsthand experience to turn this belief into a known), it seems very, very rash to me to dismiss centuries of scientific discovery and breakthrough regarding the fantastic nature of the human seat of thought . I think that, perhaps, a human's consciousness is limited to "playing on the brain's terms," so to speak, while it is residing in a body. When one's consciousness leaves the body, via either phasing to other areas of nonphysical awareness, or death, it may be that the mind is no longer limited to the restrictions that are placed on it by the brain, since it is not "residing" in it at that instance.

We know that the brain serves as the body's "computer" in a way, seeing as it is responsible for maintaining the function of our various organs, our nervous system, our digestive tract, and every other thing needed to keep our body alive and well. Additionally, it cannot be denied that certain parts of the brain are responsible for certain aspects of a human's behavior or personality, which are often considered part of the "mind". If this were not true, how would you explain the reactions of a human to a lobotomy, where the prefrontal cortex (which controls various emotions, and a person's sense of right and wrong) is damaged or removed? As for memory, certain areas of the brain have been recognized to have a link to learning and memorization (hippocampus), and damage to the brain has often led to impaired memory (amnesia, etc).

I do recall someone, either on the message board or in the retrieval archive, telling about how he or she had a sister suffering from dementia, I believe, who was confined to a psychiatric hospital of some sort. This person then, nonphysically, with the aid of a few others (might have been helpers) proceeded to retrieve various aspects of the sister's mind, resulting in a great sense of healing for everyone involved, along with an improvement in the sister's condition (if memory serves me right Wink.

If the above situation was an honest account, I think further work in the area of assisting people with such disorders could not only relieve great suffering, but bring us closer to understanding the nature of the mind, the brain, how they relate to one another, and just how far the rabbit hole goes in discovering the truth about ourselves.

Food for thought: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5194382.stm
http://www.memorylossonline.com/fall2005/dejavu.html
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #6 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 1:51am
 
hi R, welcome. I'm no scientist, Bruce is an engineer brain though, so I learn a lot through his books as I just consider myself a mystic until, well, maybe my next life.

however, just to add to this thread more thought, I have often thought of thought as a sparking action, those neurons and like electric activity such as brain waves, that we can label delta, beta, etc. its interesting to study electric properties.

then theres light. I suspect what we call light is what every being is composed of, so electricity can be like light also. personally I believe the entire body is a sensory organ, we can pick up energy and thought from a touch, like a handshake, get images, feelings that way too. I believe the seat of consciousness is in every cell of the body, not just in the cranium. if light is life, it is in every cell, this intelligence which closes a wound without us commanding the wound to close.

you're right, consciousness within a body is called C1. level one. it is by definition of TMI limited awareness, versus what we all think we want, unlimited awareness. that place where all is connected.

from a few mystical experiences, and just my theory, not absolute, but helps me when I retrieve, some of these experiences, the thought is that upon death is a brief loss of long term memory, or objectivity may cease for a time, then I think the person is gathered and linked back into the memories of the life they just lived, and most often I see families, those with bonds of love through life after life, being the factor to bring the memories into view, thus love is like a rescue force within the other realm.

but it would be good to read of what we have learned through study of the brain and human psychology and behaviors. but man is much more than these factors in C1.
I do not feel it is a matter of playing on the brain's terms, but of continuing to think outside the box, if you will, to learn of ourselves.
I am thinking of things like altered states and levitating, and spontaneous healings when I say thinking outside the box brain.
thanks for your response. alysia
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #7 - Jul 30th, 2007 at 10:29pm
 
This is all true what you say Ryuuko. As I said, the brain (and all the other physical stuff) is necessary, but not sufficient for leading a physical life with having experiences, thoughts etc. It's true, you can find correlations between brain states and the behaviour. But you cannot find the experiences, thoughts etc. in the brain. Look at it in a way of paralellism: When you experience and think, there are specific activities in the brain. What is not correct is to make the conclusion "the thoughts are brain activities" (identification) or "the thoughts are caused by brain activities". These would be conclusions which are not justified- they are just incorrect because they're senseless through confusion of categories. Because thoughts are not physically defined, they are not something physical, at a specific place.

Spooky
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #8 - Jul 31st, 2007 at 12:28am
 
there is not higher thought in the brain, where a life changing decision is concerned. there can be such a thing as sleep walking, or sleep talking, but this is like a function of a computer operandi, and we know the brain can be like a computer, and that belief systems can be like a software program.
but there are no PUL energy, no higher thought, or decision making that the brain can do by itself. love, alysia

I am intrigued with the body's ability to close a wound without me telling it to do that, and I know we can with our will to speed our own healings.
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #9 - Jul 31st, 2007 at 9:26pm
 
Quote Alysia:
"there is not higher thought in the brain"

My point is, there is not one thought at all in the brain. In the brain there are cells and such. The brain is a physical object, while thoughts are not. Sorry for being such insistent, but this issue just pushes my buttons!  Shocked

Spooky
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #10 - Jul 31st, 2007 at 11:29pm
 
spooky2 wrote on Jul 31st, 2007 at 9:26pm:
Quote Alysia:
"there is not higher thought in the brain"

My point is, there is not one thought at all in the brain. In the brain there are cells and such. The brain is a physical object, while thoughts are not. Sorry for being such insistent, but this issue just pushes my buttons!  Shocked

Spooky

I agree theres no consciousness in the brain tissue itself, or thought, but yet I wonder how people stay alive in a coma, the body stays alive, the heart beats, then I think it's all programming, not the spirit, I think the brain is a conductor of thought like Bruce said, but its a vehicle, the body as a whole, is a vehicle for spirit, so I'm not disagreeing with you, what I'm saying is we don't even know what the brain/body is exactly except to call it an organism animated by life. we should be able to heal ourselves, not take this thing to the doctor to heal it when something goes wrong...then we could say we know something.
I think all ailments and disease is a function of the mind of uncorrected thinking, yet we all accept disease as our due automatically.

I'm just looking at the future. never mind me! love, alysia
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #11 - Aug 1st, 2007 at 6:16pm
 
Hey there!

No thoughts in the brain....sounds plausible, I agree that thoughts can not be found, or shown, the only thing that can be shown are the electrical impulses while our brain is thinking, or thinks like bio-chemical reactions wandering from one cell to another via the large amount of synapses in between our cells in the brain.
Right, that must not obviously imply that our thoughts are made by the brain, but whithout it, a physically alive being cannot act. Damaged nerves for example cannot pass information where it needed to be, e.g. if your nerves guaranteeing working of your arm is damaged, it is not movable at all. A handicap, but concerning the body. Does it bother our soul, spooky? At least the body-bound, if it is possible for a soul to fall in love with the body too much (but isn't it like a spinning-backwards-effect on the soul that lives like
The brain is sort of a computer with a certain kind of program within (EEG would show that it is "playing".
Yet the initializing object making the brain work is not found, and it obviosly is not located in the brain, I refer to the case of a patient (think her name is Pam), was given a hyperthermic shock to stop her brain activity (flat line EEG was the "visual result" on the screen. Her body-temperature was about 15 ° Celsius, normally it is about 36-37° Celsius. I guess if you would be frozen like this outside a hospital, without machines making your heart or other vital functions possible, there won't be much life in the physical understanding of our body ("man only sees, what he understands" - goethe).
The clinically surroundings (I am not sure if it would have been possible without, but it is a possibily whatsoever, maybe she would have left her body still being aware in spirit, going to the next plane of existence), allowed her a NDE observing herself during the surgery, her mind was offline and her body more dead than alive. What is strange about this, she had consciousness, even if her brain was out of order, so it is definitly not the "home" of consiousness. She could explain detailed about her surgery, what the doctors told (her eyes were sort of "taped", her ears plugged) and one doctor had the impression, that she was sitting on his/her shoulder, observing what was going on.
So in this case, the dmt-matter, scientists always focused on dmt, making the NDE-afterlife-outlook-hallucination. So no hallucination, because the receptor, or creator of hallucinations was shut down!
So still a proof, that consciousness needs not the brain, but the brain needs consciousness to work.
But I would wonder if the 15°Celsius body would have the strength to keep the consciousness alive.
So after all, consciousness is needed to provide, thoughts images, experiences, and these questions still remaining: , if the body needs consciousness, or the consciousness the body, are they a dualism, that would not be able to work if one is gone. This is wether proven nor disproven. The body is soulbound, i think as consciousness in your eyes is a soulfactor, and not a mind connected to body effect, that those tiny, funny molecules, or submolecules create. The are energy, without energy, so to say disfuntion. But energy has other ways to transform, must not be within the molecular structure of a body. So soul is energy, an energetic phenomenon. So would dying mean taking out the energy (soul). The body breaks, but if consciousness is soulbound (it is necessary if immortality means existence of a soul in spiritual planes, where it has the possibility to feel the I AM, that we feel during this earth realm existence!) , it would leave the body, so the consciousness is not lost, but freed.

Deseases, apart from psychical illnesses are seriously not mind disfunction (in this case, emotions turning mad, and some of them can be created by ourselves, others by abusing, torturing....whatsoever), only if we would be able to create e.g. the virus within ourselves (but why???), why creating our own intruders?
The reaction is still bio-chemical (I do not want to explain it, I think you now how it works in the scientific point of view), parts in the blood "consuming" the virus....(doesn't work with aids, the aids-virus is able to change the shape so it won't be recognized by those cells in our blood, that are able to get the information that there is a known one running around, that can be marked as such a think, and it can't be killed....explained it.....sry...).

Healing itself, I would say works best if used against emotional baggage (yes I know, if a cancer-patient shows a strong will to survive, cancer can be cleansed easier...otherwise it can be the other way round, faster physically dying). Maybe with smaller injuries, but a serious fleshwound would rather be infected by parasites (to us they are...) than be healing well, this infection would have a serious affect on our body....).

The future thing....good to take a look on it, Alysia, but where is a future without today and yesterday, but I think your way of living from you heart (correct me if it is a failure calling it like this), is involved. (sure, living means loving, without love one would be a walking body, being dead inside, I am still too much of a dead man walking Smiley ).
The heart knows the three of them Grin.

Higher thinking, uhhm.....means the transcendence created by our mind, science, philosophy, art.
It is a free will choice to make it part of your life, and those three are ways of understanding our world, the goal is somewhere around the same.....(but depends on arts, i would tend to say that science and expressionistic literature would not be a good couple, since partner number sometimes blames numer one).
But since we are parts of the thing that is the "one in all" and also the all in one, it is surely the human level of awareness of transcendence, as a spiritual being, there is the possibiliy to explore more of the trancendent, yet of going on for the consciousness.

Free will...omg, how free is your will if you have to pass??
Only if there is something about passing, if it is like passing over. Otherwise it seems more like a healing device for the drowning humanrace... .
But it is just what I think, others do not, and it is most of them, I know Smiley

If you think that you are thinking, you only think to do so. ("Wenn du denkst du denkst, dann denkst du nur du denkst.")

With the soul, we are not determinated, but without we would be!
(So no light at the end of the rainbow, since hope is the rainbow, we will get what we desire...we do not desire it, for the believer it is promised, I lost my rainbow since I got too sceptical, but it is there, maybe in small portions Grin Grin Grin).


chief sceptical got it outright wrong, hugh.... (yes there is more to life than I might see... Grin)

Love,

pulsar
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spooky2
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #12 - Aug 1st, 2007 at 9:07pm
 
I think the dualism physical matter vs. energy/mind in the end is not the answer. When you think of a two-world hypothesis, then the next problem would occur, how is interaction possible? When the two worlds are principally different, there would be no way, when they are similar, there could be interaction, but then it would be arguable if it's correct to call it two worlds, rather than one.
So, my way is to think of different focuses we can tune in. This physical world is one of these focuses. Ultimately, the question would be about me/here vs. the other/out there, which is the question about The One. Only when there's no difference of me/here to other/there anymore the questions would vanish.

Spooky
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #13 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 12:17am
 
hello Pulsar and Spooky  Smiley I/there, yes Spooky thats my path, integrating the I/there. good thoughts from this thread.

Pulsar, the German mind is very detailed, is it not?  Smiley just ask my car, that is German made!

Pulsar said: why creating our own intruders?   you seem to be in the health profession from your words, I was seeing a doctor. I too have read many stories of NDE, where the patient was flat lined, yet described from a location above the operating table details they could not have observed with the senses being dormant, therefore it had to be non/physical senses.
why creating our own intruders? I think its rather we participate with the intruders for purposes we generally don't know off the top of our head, excepting we might meditate and gain the answer, for ourselves, but not necessary for another.
its true the immune system can be weakened by such things as depression, emotional problems of long standing, yet I believe the mind participates with the emotions.
I don't see in that sense we are creating of our own intruders as I see that we individually allow ourselves to not observe the effects of our behavior patterns nor the writing on the wall which leads to a thought of death, versus the will to live, a thought of life, or hope as you put it so well, hope is a healing thought, as is gratitude, if we're able to find that within ourselves.

There was a song, I think Neil Diamond sang "I AM" I said, to no one there, and no one spoke, not even the chair.
I was thinking of this song today when I read these posts, and considering the out of body state of mind.
When I am in this state, I am feeling and knowing that I am.

I am aware that I exist in a nonphysical type of locale. I am aware that I am aware that I am.

funny huh? Smiley it's one thing to be aware that you exist. it's another thing to be aware that you exist in a location nonphysical.

I think the I/there is what is aware and watching the me/here and we are truly one entity.

Pulsar you said what is the future without yesterday and today. you're right, we need all of time to look at. what if our lives were simply one never ending day?
thats rather how I think of being with my I/there.
Smiley
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #14 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 7:37pm
 
Hey spooky and Alysia!

@ spooky

Then I would say we have the same opinion about the consciousness, that is able to let's call it shape-shift between focuses and the free will, that is included, decides more than the boundaries that our physical existence has, the physical body will be left behind, but what makes us a being, the consciousness or the awareness that we are, will exist not only for the I/here-period (I said it over and over again, the hope that it is like this never faded, even if my outlook on life has been negative, so the "more" that science and philosophy, or even psychology states as an invention to comfort us, not accepting that we are higher animals, bound to the nature of living and dying, in this case dying as being ceased to exist forever.
But how comes that, we think that animals are aware of nothing, instincts we call their behaviour, I personally think if there are souls, whatever walks and grows all over our planet, has to have one, if we talk of evolution, maybe the I/here has also changed over the large amount of years, that life was found here). I had always the impression, that the afterlife offers us to be our thoughts (the strongest must also be the acceptance of an universal consciousness, that makes us part of it) , not really like an astral projection of the I/here. So interaction still remains (here it is through speech), the awareness also (the thoughts that make us feel alive here and now) gets to another level.
So our self is the thing that has to be (don't know why I always avoid to say is the same...scepticism..arghhh) the same.
The most urgent question that now occurs is: "What was our I before the I-here." And if we could prove this point, the question wether there is a world behind his one would be no question, because if we were before this focus, there must be a focus after this here-one.

@ Alysia

Yes, it is forced to work like a rational machinery Smiley. There is so much information that is shoved down ones throat, that the question of what we are talking about is no more important, because it is so fed up that it wants nothing more but to sleep. Smiley Sometimes I felt so fed up, that I could not remember what was in there, and confused, because there was always more and more, but short time to let it settle down.
Detailed, yes, but you are made to believe that it is only serious to life by strict structures, as if it is not possible to be more flexible concerning your thoughts. The most important thing is that you know what you need, when it is asked, but that can be reached without a dogmatic-structure. Learning then feels not like something is forced to be in your brain (there were things that I was not interested in, and this structure sh** made it more less interesting to know, sometimes I just asked myself if I am not anymore alowed just to live, just to breath, to let the wind blow around my nose.... )
Talking....as if intelligent talking would make one more intelligent than he is, that cannot be, what should be stated by using the "well-spokeness" in school, maybe in highschool teachers or the teachings think, that using normal language is just profanity.... Cheesy

No, I am not in a health profession, but we had to learn all this kind of terminology (think it is the same in the US), I started the practical training that I need to be allowed to make studies in electronical engineering, two days of just replacing old wires in offices (I hope it is not the only thing I that have to do for the next year) Smiley

Even the scientific meaning of death is not a dead end, you are giving everything, you consist of back to the earth, so are not lost, but still there is no more consciousness.
We just concentrate on observing, and results, we can get, can only be reached through "seing is believing".
There are less studies about the emotional level, because also this is tried to be rationalised, why is is like this, are so many comforted by this control-freak attitude? That was how I became a control freak, believing just in facts, that are easy to verify them for yourself by reading through books about scientific researches, but I am trying to overcome this.
But strange, the more you believe in something out of this i-need-facts-box, opens up your mind, not as running away from reality (try to, reality will always get you), but maybe to search truth trough feelings or travelling into yourself (we do not know if this world we are creating, or what generally beliefs about how to life and then drop dead for ever, is the truth, but emotionally expriences, or through dreams, seem to be to easy to believe in, sometimes the real things are just a little step away, without too much cutting, smashing into pieces and then list up every little result (supports the understanding of the universe we live in, but must not be the truth, only a superficial way to get there).
Not finding the I-AM is important for some people, but they claim to know that your life is useless when not living it like they told you, so in their eyes you are nobody if you do not reach a high paid job or scientific jobs. I think it should come from our own desires, from your heart, what you want to do, and it does not matter what, but you have to do it for the reason that you chose it, and then you will have success. In that point, I like my parents, me and my brother chose other directions (our parents did not force us to do anything we do not agree with) than being a baker and that means actually, that their business, that was started by the ones before them 200 years ago, will stop. But that is life, life means changes (without changes, we would not get anywhere, and be it in outlooks on life).

Be happy that you aware of existing, often I lose this awareness and then the thoughts of "there is no sense in anything I do" come back...hope I learn to handle this, the more posts I read on this board, the more new perspectives I find there, and that is so great, thanks to the one, who made it possible for us to be Grin

As eternity is forever, I think there is a lot for us to discover.

Love,

pulsar










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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #15 - Aug 2nd, 2007 at 10:31pm
 
I agree it is a great board to discover new perspectives. I gain a little insight into Germany, they would seem to be very left brained just like America is into the bottom dollar type of thinking.
well today I read it is the artists are the real leaders of the country, then I also think, being a mom, its the mom's who rule!! Cheesy I mean artistry in a most general way, for there is the art work of the soul and that I am stuff.
I relaxed a bit to discover a spirit world operating nearby back in the late 60s. of course spreading the word is a bit more difficult than I thought it would be!
but as more of us make contact with our greater selves, and/or the guides and beings who are assisting at this time, we should move forward with greater ease to be trusting we will be assisted.

so no need to rush, we have eternity, and at the same time, no need to hang back either.
TMI takes the 2 sides of the brain, left to right and synchronizes a tone to make them both work at the same time. this is how I understand the new man will be, this I would call balanced state of affairs. it appears to me you Pulsar, as well a lot of others here, are also in the act of balancing the two sides.

love to you, we are riding the crest, is what I choose to believe. alysia

addition: u said:The most urgent question that now occurs is: "What was our I before the I-here." And if we could prove this point, the question wether there is a world behind this one would be no question, because if we were before this focus, there must be a focus after this here-one.

logical! the hardest thing it is for any one of us to accept is just the mere mention that we have lived here before, or conjecture that the other life is ongoing, due to nonlinear time dimensions, to see yourself as another person is so threatening that we fear to do that. actually, I see this as a process. no need to rush the process. but one can catch glimpses of other lives, if there is a need to understand that, and then the images can be inserted into your altered state, but only if it helps you live your here/now life constructively, and thats up to the higher self wisdoms.
it is true, just when we think we have arrived somewhere, we find we are still on a journey. and u mentioned seeing is believing, then you later turned it into what I would say believing is seeing.
so there is a secret knowledge in what I just said! haha!
again, happy journeying, there should be no one to stand and block your view.
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Re: The mind is not located in the brain
Reply #16 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 5:36pm
 
[quote author=6F6C737377652E1C0 link=1184831226/2#2 date=1184895152]Yes the brain is something mechanical, or if not mechanic, then call it physiologic. It means it is a thing like other things, observable, describable. It is a thing we can look at. The mind is not of this nature. I always say, you can search as long as you want, you won't find one thought in the brain.

A person can be paralyzed from the neck down and yet still be fully conscious. I personally think that the central nervous system serves as the primary interface for consciousness in the physical world.
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